Club Finances

[coolhandfox]

Makes the signing of the likes of Ayew, Skipp and BCDR even worse, PL players who commend PL level wages probably cost around 200k between them a week which 10m a year.

 

Plus add around 7.5m on our transfer amortisation, don't sign them you have a postive swing of around 17.5m on the financial position.

Edited 28 March by coolhandfox

[foxinsocks]

1 minute ago, Paninistickers said:

No. And yes. 

And seagrave?

[Terraloon]

1 minute ago, foxinsocks said:

Does the club own the ground or is it help seperately?  Ie if club goes in to admin then will any rescuer need to parlez with kp to rent the ground.

It would appear so  , yes I use the word appear , that depreciation on the asset appears on the clubs balance sheet meaning it is a club asset  but there is also mention that it is subject of an HP agreement with KP which has been extended for another 10 ? years.

 

 

[Paninistickers]

Just now, foxinsocks said:

And seagrave?

Treat this with caution as I used ai to check the land registry...

 

It seems seagrave is divvied up into sub plot parcels, owned by multiple KP subsidiaries..

 

As terraloon says, it's on the club accounts but I'd be highly surprised if the club owns it. Maybe they own one of the 'plots'  just to pass it off as club owned. 

 

[foxinsocks]

 

 

I am tryimg to imagine if a raider would be better to take the club off kp's hands now or wait untill administratiom.  There dont seem to be big creditors to shake.

My hunch is that kp would look at a bid for the club and assets like the ground and seagrave.

Ashley will be assessing it.

I wonder if fans and Pe could make an offer.  The hard part would be a sustainable plan... that would require shaking the high earners.

Edited 28 March by foxinsocks

[adejo92]

Calvin Bassey was another Rudkin Masterclass. 

 

Offered him £700 pw.

 

Rangers came in for him, offered him around 4k, we went 5k....reached around 10k I believe and in the end he left for Rangers despite them offering him considerably less than us, just because Rudkin basically took the piss.

[Paninistickers]

5 minutes ago, foxinsocks said:

 

 

I am tryimg to imagine if a raider would be better to take the club off kp's hands now or wait untill administratiom.  There dont seem to be big creditors to shake.

My hunch is that kp would look at a bid for the club and assets like the ground and seagrave.

Ashley will be assessing it.

I wonder if fans and Pe could make an offer.  The hard part would be a sustainable plan... that would require shaking the high earners.

The future is entirely with KP, not the Khunt himself..

 

He needs a loan - or this mysterious share issue - for 100m to see us through the next two seasons. The club simply has run out of money. If KP loan (and I don't think they have the capacity anymore) then life will carry on..

 

If they don't, I suspect he still won't let go, players will not get paid and the club will close down. 

 

Leaving an entirely new club needing to be formed - as you say probably funded  by PE - and the extremely difficult process of then trying to negotiate with KP for access to the stadium. I'd imagine any newly formed club entity will happily let seagrave go. 

[Lesta2014]

The cutbacks have started already, the u18s no longer get breakfast provided on training days. 
 

the academy in younger age groups will play more games at home if we get relegated due to the cost of bus hire to transport players. Due to facilities clubs are always happy to travel to seagrave. 
 

just a couple I’ve heard over last month or so. Could be a load of rubbish also but sounds feasible. 

[foxinsocks]

7 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

The future is entirely with KP, not the Khunt himself..

 

He needs a loan - or this mysterious share issue - for 100m to see us through the next two seasons. The club simply has run out of money. If KP loan (and I don't think they have the capacity anymore) then life will carry on..

 

If they don't, I suspect he still won't let go, players will not get paid and the club will close down. 

 

Leaving an entirely new club needing to be formed - as you say probably funded  by PE - and the extremely difficult process of then trying to negotiate with KP for access to the stadium. I'd imagine any newly formed club entity will happily let seagrave go. 

Agree.  I am sure kp want it gone.  I was wondering if this should be before administration.  That would ensble kp to convert the ground and seagrave to cash also.  A pe could buy the club... and also the assets and then have the club lease them . EG buy assets for 25mill and then lease to club for 2.5 mil pa.

But operating the club requires a sustainable plan.... and admin might be the way to get ridof high earners

Edited 28 March by foxinsocks

[Tommy G]

10 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

The future is entirely with KP, not the Khunt himself..

 

He needs a loan - or this mysterious share issue - for 100m to see us through the next two seasons. The club simply has run out of money. If KP loan (and I don't think they have the capacity anymore) then life will carry on..

 

If they don't, I suspect he still won't let go, players will not get paid and the club will close down. 

 

Leaving an entirely new club needing to be formed - as you say probably funded  by PE - and the extremely difficult process of then trying to negotiate with KP for access to the stadium. I'd imagine any newly formed club entity will happily let seagrave go. 

Why would PE touch it? Explain the pathway to any kind of return for them. 

[Paninistickers]

1 minute ago, foxinsocks said:

Agree.  I am sure kp want it gone.  I was wondering if this shoukd be before administration.  That woukd ensbke kp to convert the ground and seagrave to cash also.  A pecpuld buy the club... and aldo the assets and then have the club lease them . EG buy asstes for 25mill and then lease to club for 2.5 mil pa.

But operating the club requiresa sustainanle plan.... and admin might be the way to get ridof high earners

I'm not trying to overdramatise, but I think the @Foxes Trust Reform needs to start preparing a contingency. 

 

It's hellava lot of skillsets required to start to pitch a 200m investment into something you don't even own or might not be available - but at least a clarion call needs to go out to any city fans or those in the business of football whose job it is to secure PE. 

 

I'm wondering if the first approach should be to sound out  Tigers  with a view to a  Red Bull style sporting club

 

 

 

 

[Paninistickers]

1 minute ago, Tommy G said:

Why would PE touch it? Explain the pathway to any kind of return for them. 

Like any other business, pump 250m in and try to get 500m back in the next 5-7 years 

 

It's a business plan, that's all. Just on a bigger scale

[foxinsocks]

21 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

I'm not trying to overdramatise, but I think the @Foxes Trust Reform needs to start preparing a contingency. 

 

It's hellava lot of skillsets required to start to pitch a 200m investment into something you don't even own or might not be available - but at least a clarion call needs to go out to any city fans or those in the business of football whose job it is to secure PE. 

 

I'm wondering if the first approach should be to sound out  Tigers  with a view to a  Red Bull style sporting club

 

 

 

 

Any raider like ashley or amercans will be thinking about it.  The distress signals are there.

Kp look distressed so may be glad to monitise their assets.

 

The challenge comes from the clubs cost base... and if relegated the financing for a year (or two) in div1.  Key to this is losing the high earners. 

 

(I wonder if we trigered the winks extension yet.  Might be better to wave him goodbye.)

 

Re the ft reform group, it now has control of the trust... but the trusts 40k wont help.  However any acquirer would want the trust onside.

 

I am interested in a group of fans with the right skills to work  with finance providers.  I think pe etc would be wary of a democratic trust as a major partner... but would want their support.

 

I think an approach from a consortium including finance could work with kp on diligence.  Kp would be keen to see if solutions exist...

 

The club is not worth more than the financr it can  service.  That could be zero... but if that allowed the club to lease the seperately acquired assets then atleast kp would monituse the ground and seagrave.

 

If anyone is serious enough to investigate this then please dm me.

 

Edited 28 March by foxinsocks

[Claudio Fannieri]

32 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

Like any other business, pump 250m in and try to get 500m back in the next 5-7 years 

 

It's a business plan, that's all. Just on a bigger scale

If and it’s a big if we manage to stay up then given the infrastructure and the promotion opportunity then to PE it would probably be somewhere in the region of £180m to £200m as you stated earlier, however if we do get relegated then the picture changes dramatically, the value of the club reduces by half and instead of it being a promotion opportunity and double your money sale, the challenge becomes more of a long term recovery project. 
 

the next few weeks are massive for the club not only on the pitch but also whether we are at immediate risk of administration but also what opportunities lie ahead for any potential KP / Aiyawatt exit strategy if they have one. 

[foxinsocks]

20 minutes ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

If and it’s a big if we manage to stay up then given the infrastructure and the promotion opportunity then to PE it would probably be somewhere in the region of £180m to £200m as you stated earlier, however if we do get relegated then the picture changes dramatically, the value of the club reduces by half and instead of it being a promotion opportunity and double your money sale, the challenge becomes more of a long term recovery project. 
 

the next few weeks are massive for the club not only on the pitch but also whether we are at immediate risk of administration but also what opportunities lie ahead for any potential KP / Aiyawatt exit strategy if they have one. 

The club is worth what it can afford to service.  Given its lack of earnings that aint much.  But king power will not want to keep pumping money in... so there is a compromise.  

I think the kp bought the stadium for 20m and it will be less on their balance sheet by now.  Lord knows wgat seagrave is on theur assets for.  But kp need cash and so gettibg rud of a cash burning ckub abd getting cash for asstets might be attractive.

 

I think a deal to take the club at a low price but offeing nook vakue fir  assets would appeal to kp.  This hinges on what it costs to run the club and lease back the assets.

 

Edited 28 March by foxinsocks

[Terraloon]

1 hour ago, ClaphamFox said:

Sure—that may be the case. But I was referring more to the fact that the club has explicitly stated it was PSR compliant for the period and that most media outlets seem to believe it. Whether it’s true or not is another matter.

Sorry but that’s not quite what the club states. It said “It anticipates compliance” 

 

Bear in mind that the accounts were signed off before the outcome of the 23/24 charges were known but also some of the rulings in there particular around the apportionment of the 13 month period.

 

Like someone else posted until we see the outcome of the appeals it would be process to lodge , if applicable, any charges for 24/25.

 

One little snippet in the accounts was something I didn’t know was that the EFL are running a shadow SCR model for 25/26

 

 

 

[st albans fox]

Would seem that the uptick on wages (43%) means that players did have relegation clauses. 

we can put that to bed now. Percy’s original article in 2023 would be correct. 

[jammie82uk]

1 hour ago, coolhandfox said:

PL players who commend PL level wages probably cost around 200k between them a week which 10m a year.

Average wage in the PL was £65,000, with relegation clauses that figure surely comes down

[LCFCJohn]

2 hours ago, Dreadnought said:

The FDS/BC Game/K Bet link ups are in line with King Power’s “it’s ok to cheat a bit because that is what we do to get the duty free contact” attitude to their whole business model. It might be backhanders all round in Thailand but that does not work in a highly regulated football industry. They are chancers that have been found out. 
 

Nobody is buying the club. We will go bust in a big way before anyone even looks at us. 

I agree wholly with your first paragraph.

 

The second part, I just think we are a case where any possibly buyers will bide their time. There is no incentive for anyone to get involved right now. Keep out the way, watch the situation unfold and reach the bottom. Prices wise they will pick the club up cheaply off administrators (compared to trying to buy KP out now) and as had been mentioned a fair bit, if someone else bought the club now, they’d very quickly take the blame from those in the fan base who want to deflect any kind of blame from Aiyawatt/KP.

 

There are multiple reasons to wait until this bottoms out for any sensible buyer. It doesn’t mean they aren’t out there and won’t be when we need them.

[Nolucklcfc]

Are there safeguards in place for administration? @Foxes_Trust

 

Even as a more ‘optimistic’ fan, I can’t see how this doesn’t end up in administration. We are losing daily 200k, that just isn’t sustainable being out the premier league and with promotion to the premier league a complete pipe dream for at least the next few years, this only ends one way. 
 

The right time for King Power to move on was a long time ago, as we know. But when the funding stops from the King Power group, then what? Because it will at some point, they can’t run their own business properly, let alone fund ours. 
 

There was some talk about Aiyawatt using his personal wealth if KP decides not to fund the club but that just ain’t sustainable or realistic in the long term. 
 

If he genuinely loved the club, he would look for a buyer whether we go up or down, with experience in being able to effectively manage a business. This only ends one way. 

[Oldblueyes]

Just asking, what about selling off all this extra land the club acquired for this ground and site development we were supposed to be having. Surely we no longer have plans for any of this to happen now.

[Paninistickers]

33 minutes ago, LCFCJohn said:

I agree wholly with your first paragraph.

 

The second part, I just think we are a case where any possibly buyers will bide their time. There is no incentive for anyone to get involved right now. Keep out the way, watch the situation unfold and reach the bottom. Prices wise they will pick the club up cheaply off administrators (compared to trying to buy KP out now) and as had been mentioned a fair bit, if someone else bought the club now, they’d very quickly take the blame from those in the fan base who want to deflect any kind of blame from Aiyawatt/KP.

 

There are multiple reasons to wait until this bottoms out for any sensible buyer. It doesn’t mean they aren’t out there and won’t be when we need them.

Such a good point. And perhaps the only pro active thing that activist supporters can do is keep banging the drum on social media and wider media that the club is heading for bankruptcy - not as an alarmist panic but as a tactical move to send smoke signals to buyers. 

 

Think outside of our bubble for a while. If Leeds or West Ham or Forest or even Palace were about to go pop, the brand alone is enough for an organisation to come wading in..

 

I know our supporter base is third rate, but our brand isn't. We aren't an equivalent of Sheffield Wednesday or Derby or Portsmouth going bust - where nobody has heard of the clubs outside of UK. In terms of profile, we are much more Leeds and West Ham level. 

[ealingfox]

Toad and Smithers Out 

[Lad1966]

13 hours ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

It doesn’t matter if we are fine from a PSR perspective, these losses are putting the very existence of our club at risk. 
 

Over the last 4 years we have lost on average £200k per day so we have cash in bank to cover about 3 weeks … we are in the absolute mire. 

 

14 hours ago, Mike Oxlong said:

I hate the phrase “ in the ten “

 

Owynn on RL uses it when announcing the team and it sounds like a w@nky effort to be cool 

 

3 hours ago, Terraloon said:

The money bought in may be close to £50m but the profit will likely translate into circa £25m profit. Which as we know will equate to no more than  £15m more than reflected in the 24/25 monies.

 

I need to gather my thoughts fully and of course the wages being paid to what were bought in as PL players along with their amortisation will slowly but surely be no more.

 

The problem is that without PL football or Parachute Payments the running costs of things such as Seagrave , and the Stadium will alone take care of a significant % of all the income streams if you ignore broadcasting ( Parachute Payments) 

 

 

Niddi, Mcteer should be pure profit(Niddi resigned after his contract finished) and Justin was in the last year of his contract. Coady we made a small lost and Bilal probably a small profit.

[BigGibbo]

Quelle surprise... 🤦‍♂️

 

We're going to play the next 2 seasons without a striker aren't we?