Jon the Hat Posted 14 November 2005 Posted 14 November 2005 The moral of the story is....................he's behaved perfectly well but still been charged for a crime he hasn't done. He might aswell of got his money's worth and perhaps pissed in the policemen's ear whilst he was at it. ****ers. He's been charged for not leaving the city centre within 10 minutes when required to by law, so he is quilty of that. Pleading not guilty will get him nowhere. The approach might be to claim he was unfairly issued with the order to leave. That said I doubt a magistrate is going to go for that given he was with a group of lads who were deemd to be causing trouble.
Bert Posted 14 November 2005 Posted 14 November 2005 Yeh i was guilty of not leaving within 10 minutes but the case i tried to tell the officer was that i hadnt caused any trouble in the first place to have deserved to have been told to get out as quick as i could in the first place anyway! But i suppose i was guilty of what they charged me with anyway, i cant see it being more than a fine either, if it is id be very very very surprised. Especially if its your first offence as well. if you plead guilty to the charge they may also cut you more slack because you WERE guilty of what you were arrested for. they should let you off. good luck matey
Jon the Hat Posted 14 November 2005 Posted 14 November 2005 Does anyone put convictions on job applications? Surely no one ever checks. If they find out, you might lose your job, but at least you had one in the first place.
Head Honcho Posted 14 November 2005 Posted 14 November 2005 Does anyone put convictions on job applications? Surely no one ever checks. If they find out, you might lose your job, but at least you had one in the first place. Depends what job you go for I suppose. If you take a job and they do check up on you, that is in itself an offence. You get done for something like "fraud to gain a pecuniary advantage" More and more firms are checking up these days so i suppose you take your chance.
Head Honcho Posted 14 November 2005 Posted 14 November 2005 He's been charged for not leaving the city centre within 10 minutes when required to by law, so he is quilty of that. Pleading not guilty will get him nowhere. The approach might be to claim he was unfairly issued with the order to leave. That said I doubt a magistrate is going to go for that given he was with a group of lads who were deemd to be causing trouble. There is no such law what are you on about?The police can't make them up as they go along you know! The police can ask you to move along and if you don't arrest you for something like causing an obstruction, but they can't order you out of the city centre. It's a bit ambiguous anyway out of the city centre! Where's that? How do you define out of the city centre? As I said a good Brief will get him off no problem, might not even go to court his brief will tell the CPS his intention to plead not guilty and they'll most probably chuck it, it's not exactly crime of the century is it? Come to think of it it's not exactly a crime is it?
andy_croydz Posted 14 November 2005 Author Posted 14 November 2005 Yes im sure one way or another i will sort it out ill tell the court about the fact i wasnt eevn one of the people who should have been told to leave within 10 minutes, plus i couldent leave my mates else i would have been in trouble gettin home, i didnt want to walk on me own at 12-1 am im sure the court will understand, if not ill plead not guilty and see if they have proof that i caused trouble, they wont have any proof not even on CCTV because i didnt cause trouble so they wont be able to prove me guilty
Bert Posted 14 November 2005 Posted 14 November 2005 Yes im sure one way or another i will sort it out ill tell the court about the fact i wasnt eevn one of the people who should have been told to leave within 10 minutes, plus i couldent leave my mates else i would have been in trouble gettin home, i didnt want to walk on me own at 12-1 am im sure the court will understand, if not ill plead not guilty and see if they have proof that i caused trouble, they wont have any proof not even on CCTV because i didnt cause trouble so they wont be able to prove me guilty Correct me if 'm wrong but isn't the charge your up against that you failed to leave an area within a certain time limit and got arrested and not causing trouble?
filbertway Posted 14 November 2005 Posted 14 November 2005 Yes im sure one way or another i will sort it out ill tell the court about the fact i wasnt eevn one of the people who should have been told to leave within 10 minutes, plus i couldent leave my mates else i would have been in trouble gettin home, i didnt want to walk on me own at 12-1 am im sure the court will understand, if not ill plead not guilty and see if they have proof that i caused trouble, they wont have any proof not even on CCTV because i didnt cause trouble so they wont be able to prove me guilty Correct me if 'm wrong but isn't the charge your up against that you failed to leave an area within a certain time limit and got arrested and not causing trouble? Whatever he's been charged of it seems he's innocent
Leicfox Posted 14 November 2005 Posted 14 November 2005 You will be fined, simple as, the old bill always win.
Ric Flair Posted 15 November 2005 Posted 15 November 2005 Lots of jobs do CRB checks before you start, so any criminal convictions will show up.
Thracian Posted 15 November 2005 Posted 15 November 2005 A good lawyer will get you off this charge in minutes. Unless of course the Police in Leicester have been given special powers that allows them to order a person or persons out of the city centre. This is a total breach of your Human Rights and if i was you i would fight it. Many reasons why you should fight it, not least because you would get yourself a criminal record and you would also have to declare it on many Job applications until spent in 3-5 years time. You might only be looking at a fine but that doesn't matter the fact that you will have been convicted of an offence is what you should worry about. I have been in a similar situation to you and decided to fight the charges against me, I pleaded not guilty and the case was adjouned, i got a letter through the post a week before I was due back up saying that the charges had been dropped through lack of evidence. My Brief assured me that this was because pleaded Not Guilty Had I pleaded guilty at the original hearing i would have been convicted. What happens you see is that the police do not have to show up for the first hearing and all they're evidence is read out by the prosecution. As soon as the police have to show up for hearings it gets a bit costly so the CPS look at the charge again to see if a conviction is worth the time and money. Whatever you decide to do Good Luck but make sure you don't let them tuck you up for something so bloody stupid. Sound advice. Plead not guilty. No question. If all you say is true the case should be chucked out anyway if it gets to court and having any sort of conviction is bad news.
andy_croydz Posted 15 November 2005 Author Posted 15 November 2005 Thanx for all your help guys n girls The big day is tommorrow at 9:15 when im in court so ill tell you all what happens when i get home
Jon the Hat Posted 15 November 2005 Posted 15 November 2005 There is no such law what are you on about?The police can't make them up as they go along you know! http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/30038--e.htm#30 Anti social behaviour act 2003... (4) The constable may give one or more of the following directions, namely- (a) a direction requiring the persons in the group to disperse (either immediately or by such time as he may specify and in such way as he may specify), (b) a direction requiring any of those persons whose place of residence is not within the relevant locality to leave the relevant locality or any part of the relevant locality (either immediately or by such time as he may specify and in such way as he may specify), and © a direction prohibiting any of those persons whose place of residence is not within the relevant locality from returning to the relevant locality or any part of the relevant locality for such period (not exceeding 24 hours) from the giving of the direction as he may specify; And no it doesn't just cover persons unde 16, those under 16 can be required to go home as an additional power.
Head Honcho Posted 15 November 2005 Posted 15 November 2005 http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/30038--e.htm#30 Anti social behaviour act 2003... (4) The constable may give one or more of the following directions, namely- (a) a direction requiring the persons in the group to disperse (either immediately or by such time as he may specify and in such way as he may specify), (b) a direction requiring any of those persons whose place of residence is not within the relevant locality to leave the relevant locality or any part of the relevant locality (either immediately or by such time as he may specify and in such way as he may specify), and © a direction prohibiting any of those persons whose place of residence is not within the relevant locality from returning to the relevant locality or any part of the relevant locality for such period (not exceeding 24 hours) from the giving of the direction as he may specify; And no it doesn't just cover persons unde 16, those under 16 can be required to go home as an additional power. :eek: Well bugger me (not literally of course) They got you all ways these days. Nice bit of research mate
breadandcheese Posted 15 November 2005 Posted 15 November 2005 http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/30038--e.htm#30 Anti social behaviour act 2003... (4) The constable may give one or more of the following directions, namely- (a) a direction requiring the persons in the group to disperse (either immediately or by such time as he may specify and in such way as he may specify), (b) a direction requiring any of those persons whose place of residence is not within the relevant locality to leave the relevant locality or any part of the relevant locality (either immediately or by such time as he may specify and in such way as he may specify), and © a direction prohibiting any of those persons whose place of residence is not within the relevant locality from returning to the relevant locality or any part of the relevant locality for such period (not exceeding 24 hours) from the giving of the direction as he may specify; And no it doesn't just cover persons unde 16, those under 16 can be required to go home as an additional power. It would seem the way to fight such action is to question point (a). The constable gave an order to leave the city centre within 10 mins. Firstly, how long was it between the arrest and the order to leave? More importantly, how did the constable judge 10 minutes to be sufficient time to leave the city centre. I could not imagine a situation where I would be able to leave the city centre so quickly. Therefore, it seems a defence can be made on the grounds that the constable did not leave sufficient time for you to leave. I would be interested to know any person with relevant legal experience as to whether this would be valid.
Rincewind Posted 15 November 2005 Posted 15 November 2005 I think all you have to do Andy is stick to your guns and say you had not got enough money for a taxi and you were trying to pursuade one of your less sober mates to walk with you as you felt it unsafe to walk alone and did not want to call the emergancy services (police/ambulance) if you should fall foul to unsavoury types later on and cause more hard work for them dealing with a more serious crime. Like others have said if you plead Not Guilty, the case would have to go to a higher court and the CPS might look at the case again and give you the benefit of the doubt as it's borderline. Good luck anyway.
Bert Posted 15 November 2005 Posted 15 November 2005 Thanx for all your help guys n girls The big day is tommorrow at 9:15 when im in court so ill tell you all what happens when i get home All the best for tomorrow mate, hope you get off.
Steven Posted 15 November 2005 Posted 15 November 2005 I think all you have to do Andy is stick to your guns and say you had not got enough money for a taxi and you were trying to pursuade one of your less sober mates to walk with you as you felt it unsafe to walk alone and did not want to call the emergancy services (police/ambulance) if you should fall foul to unsavoury types later on and cause more hard work for them dealing with a more serious crime. Like others have said if you plead Not Guilty, the case would have to go to a higher court and the CPS might look at the case again and give you the benefit of the doubt as it's borderline. Good luck anyway. I would echo most of this. Good luck tomorrow.
Manwell Pablo Posted 15 November 2005 Posted 15 November 2005 I would echo most of this. Good luck tomorrow. I dunno if your gonna read this in time for your case, I dont think it matters too much any way seeing as your going to plead not guily. But the exact same thing happened to my mate. The thing is they cant tell you to leave the town center if you personally arent doing anything wrong, they cant even arrest your mates for being drunk and arguing with them they have to be disorderly as well. Arguements are differnces of opninion, they cant do shit. If any one swore ar them they could prolly do the person who swore, but not you. Any way my mate pleaded not guilty and they threw it out straight away as the CPS had no evidence. Taking it to court would lead to the police being investigated by your laweyrs and its really not worth their while. You all plead not guilty and I will be more then suprised if it goes any further. Espically in your case. You shouldnt even have to think about a lawyer.
Manwell Pablo Posted 15 November 2005 Posted 15 November 2005 http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/30038--e.htm#30 Anti social behaviour act 2003... (4) The constable may give one or more of the following directions, namely- (a) a direction requiring the persons in the group to disperse (either immediately or by such time as he may specify and in such way as he may specify), (b) a direction requiring any of those persons whose place of residence is not within the relevant locality to leave the relevant locality or any part of the relevant locality (either immediately or by such time as he may specify and in such way as he may specify), and © a direction prohibiting any of those persons whose place of residence is not within the relevant locality from returning to the relevant locality or any part of the relevant locality for such period (not exceeding 24 hours) from the giving of the direction as he may specify; And no it doesn't just cover persons unde 16, those under 16 can be required to go home as an additional power. Yes but they have to not only of have to had just cause, but PROVE they had just cause to give the direction. They wont waste their time.
andy_croydz Posted 16 November 2005 Author Posted 16 November 2005 I've just read what you put, but ive just got back from court so i didnt read that before i went Anyway the woman asked if i was guilty for not gettin out of the city centre in the time the police had given us, so i said yes i was guilty but i told them of the fact about not having enough money to get home without my mates, not causing any trouble to be told to get out in the first place... and the guy said who was the guy asking the questions in the court room, said he understood what i was saying but because i was part of a group that had commited the offence i was responsible for them aswell. So in the end they just gave us all a 35 quid fine but its on our record so ive got a criminal record now for fack all <_<
Katy Posted 16 November 2005 Posted 16 November 2005 I've just read what you put, but ive just got back from court so i didnt read that before i went Anyway the woman asked if i was guilty for not gettin out of the city centre in the time the police had given us, so i said yes i was guilty but i told them of the fact about not having enough money to get home without my mates, not causing any trouble to be told to get out in the first place... and the guy said who was the guy asking the questions in the court room, said he understood what i was saying but because i was part of a group that had commited the offence i was responsible for them aswell. So in the end they just gave us all a 35 quid fine but its on our record so ive got a criminal record now for fack all <_< Bad luck Andy, I guess its a lesson learned though ay? - You cant fight the law and win (unfortunately in your case)
andy_croydz Posted 16 November 2005 Author Posted 16 November 2005 yep i wont be going out drinking in town for a long while im sure! <_<
Steven Posted 16 November 2005 Posted 16 November 2005 I've just read what you put, but ive just got back from court so i didnt read that before i went Anyway the woman asked if i was guilty for not gettin out of the city centre in the time the police had given us, so i said yes i was guilty but i told them of the fact about not having enough money to get home without my mates, not causing any trouble to be told to get out in the first place... and the guy said who was the guy asking the questions in the court room, said he understood what i was saying but because i was part of a group that had commited the offence i was responsible for them aswell. So in the end they just gave us all a 35 quid fine but its on our record so ive got a criminal record now for fack all <_< Welcome to East Germany. <_<
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