Closed doors

[chapero82]

2 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

Plenty of people will be in hospital who are fully vaccinated, but all the stats show that they need much less intensive care than those who are not vaccinated. The unvaccinated are the ones currently occupying the higher numbers of icu beds, thus putting the greater strain on the health services, and therefore prolonging the restrictions we are all having to live with. 

That isn't true though is it? say everyone in the country is vaccinated right now, but admissions would still be high then the NHS would still be overwhelmed with patients albeit with not so life threatening conditions,

 

until we get a grip on the spread then it will never be over 

[Legend_in_blue]

2 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

With respect, you've already changed what you were originally saying. The viral load from a vaccinated person is lower, so your new assertion is also inaccurate.

Triple-Vaccinated More Than FOUR Times As Likely to Test Positive For Omicron Than Unvaccinated, Data Shows – The Daily Sceptic

 

Mmmmm... not according to this ONS data.

[HighPeakFox]

1 minute ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Triple-Vaccinated More Than FOUR Times As Likely to Test Positive For Omicron Than Unvaccinated, Data Shows – The Daily Sceptic

 

Mmmmm... not according to this ONS data.

Well in fact he was by now talking about transmissions, not becoming infected. It's very difficult to talk to people when they change what they say when challenged.

[chapero82]

3 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

With respect, you've already changed what you were originally saying. The viral load from a vaccinated person is lower, so your new assertion is also inaccurate.

How have I changed? my opinion is people should have a choice to take the vaccine or not

 

I am not saying one is right over the other  

[HighPeakFox]

5 minutes ago, chapero82 said:

How have I changed? my opinion is people should have a choice to take the vaccine or not

 

I am not saying one is right over the other  

If you read back, you said one thing, which is that the vaccine is not effective against Covid - I addressed it. Then you altered what you said to be about transmission to others, which I also addressed. Now it's back to choice, which you did say originally, but wasn't what I ever challenged.

Edited 22 December 2021 by HighPeakFox

[chapero82]

Just now, HighPeakFox said:

If you read back, you said one thing, which is that the vaccine is not effective against Covid - I addressed it. Then you altered what you said to be about transmission to to others, which I also addressed. Now it's back to choice, which you did say originally, but wasn't what I ever challenged.

I did not once say it was not effective!!!!!!!

[FoxesDeb]

6 minutes ago, chapero82 said:

That isn't true though is it? say everyone in the country is vaccinated right now, but admissions would still be high then the NHS would still be overwhelmed with patients albeit with not so life threatening conditions,

 

until we get a grip on the spread then it will never be over 

Admissions would still be high, but virtually nobody would be in icu. This would mean that the people being brought in with heart attacks, strokes, from road accidents and so on could pretty much get the special care they would have expected to receive pre covid. As it is, more of the icu beds are taken up by the unvaccinated, so yes, it is true, whether you like it or NOT 

[HighPeakFox]

1 minute ago, chapero82 said:

I did not once say it was not effective!!!!!!!

What did this sentence mean then (which is EXACTLY what you said)? It implies that taking the vaccine is as ineffective as not taking it.

 

"Taking the vaccine or not doesn't stop the spread of the virus though? "

[chapero82]

1 minute ago, HighPeakFox said:

What did this sentence mean then (which is EXACTLY what you said)? It implies that taking the vaccine is as ineffective as not taking it.

 

"Taking the vaccine or not doesn't stop the spread of the virus though? "

it's a true statement it doesn't stop the spread of the virus, it gives more milder symptoms but it doesn't stop transmission 

[HighPeakFox]

Just now, chapero82 said:

it's a true statement it doesn't stop the spread of the virus, it gives more milder symptoms but it doesn't stop transmission 

Ok, I'm out. If the fact that it reduces the viral load, thus is less likely to be transmissible cannot convince you, then there's simply no point talking about this further. 

[chapero82]

Just now, HighPeakFox said:

Ok, I'm out. If the fact that it reduces the viral load, thus is less likely to be transmissible cannot convince you, then there's simply no point talking about this further. 

if it was so effective at stopping the spread then we wouldn't be hitting over 100k cases in a day 

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, chapero82 said:

if it was so effective at stopping the spread then we wouldn't be hitting over 100k cases in a day 

You are just on the wind up now

[st albans fox]

20 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Triple-Vaccinated More Than FOUR Times As Likely to Test Positive For Omicron Than Unvaccinated, Data Shows – The Daily Sceptic

 

Mmmmm... not according to this ONS data.

Do you think that a lot of the anti vax brigade would get tested ? 
 

I’m not putting a lot of faith in the raw stats at the moment. I reckon there is a lot of test evasion and positive test non reporting going on. 
 

those most likely to be tested and report a positive result are those who are following the advice and gettting jabbed and boosted. 

 

Which sort of makes the lack of apparent hospitalisation surge even better news ……. Let’s hope that continues 

[chapero82]

2 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

You are just on the wind up now

I'm just playing devils advocate

[sacreblueits442]

3 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Also understand you're too busy to ask people to wear masks, but then you can't have a go at them as being 'cretins' etc etc. Maybe they've just forgotten. If they were reminded, i'm sure most people would put them on? Not your job to do so, just pointing it out

Edited 3 hours ago by grobyfox1990

....they haven't, they just cannot be bothered and do not see it as relevant!!!

You have the "no one tells me what I can or can't do" brigade, they are not going to change, shops do not need the hassle of trying to stop them coming through their doors, they also need the business, a bit of a "catch 22".

[HighPeakFox]

3 minutes ago, chapero82 said:

I'm just playing devils advocate

You might as well have said 'I was only joking', it's just as annoying.

[Spudulike]

1 minute ago, chapero82 said:

I'm just playing devils advocate

What's really worrying is that almost 1 in 10 in the UK have been suckered in by this misinformation. Unbelievably we have some in this thread. We all laugh at information gained from Tracey off Facebook and the Twitter scientists but there's a serious side to this as it's still causing deaths. 

[chapero82]

Just now, HighPeakFox said:

You might as well have said 'I was only joking', it's just as annoying.

I wasn't joking, I need to point out I'm not anti vaccine I just think they are entitled to a choice 

 

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, chapero82 said:

I wasn't joking, I need to point out I'm not anti vaccine I just think they are entitled to a choice 

So these enlightened individuals get to decide what’s best for society at large?

[Spudulike]

1 minute ago, chapero82 said:

I wasn't joking, I need to point out I'm not anti vaccine I just think they are entitled to a choice 

 

AND. THEY. DO. HAVE. A. CHOICE. 

 

Geddit now? 

[chapero82]

Just now, Spudulike said:

What's really worrying is that almost 1 in 10 in the UK have been suckered in by this misinformation. Unbelievably we have some in this thread. We all laugh at information gained from Tracey off Facebook and the Twitter scientists but there's a serious side to this as it's still causing deaths. 

you want to see some of the things I've been told by family members, e.g shedding or shredding from the vaccine and I was banned from the house for months because of it

[Phil Bowman]

3 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Also understand you're too busy to ask people to wear masks, but then you can't have a go at them as being 'cretins' etc etc. Maybe they've just forgotten.

I admire your desire to think well of people, but I’m not buying this suggestion! I’ve forgotten to put on a mask a couple of times before going into a shop and it’s taken as long as seeing someone in a mask (so, literally seconds) to remind me, make me think ‘oh crap, my mask’ and put it on.

[chapero82]

6 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

So these enlightened individuals get to decide what’s best for society at large?

come back to me in 5 years when you have an arm growing out of your head 

[Phil Bowman]

17 minutes ago, chapero82 said:

I'm just playing devils advocate

Taking this assertion at good faith, what earthly need would there be to play devil’s advocate when there are plenty of people already saying the same kind of stuff on here?

Edited 22 December 2021 by Phil Bowman

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, chapero82 said:

come back to me in 5 years when you have an arm growing out of your head 

Could be handy ……