Closed doors

[st albans fox]

When did we enter a parallel universe where you wait to be drowning at the bottom of a lake before realising that it wasn’t a good idea to jump in fully clothed with a boulder chained to your leg ?  
 

of course someone might rescue you or you might be able to easily remove the chain but surely it was better not to jump in without equipment to stop you sinking in the first place. 

[PAPA LAZAROU]

1 minute ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...how long will it take, until you are convinced it will be safe for you and your family to have the vaccine!!!

  This virus will be here for some years, if not forever, we have seen the habits of people in public places, there is not much of an attempt to safeguard from the virus, it is certainly not going away any time soon.

we have to let our own immunity systems deal with it. you simply cannot keep have a jab every time this happens.

[AjcW]

Me - Oooh I wonder what's been happening on Foxestalk since I last logged on last night

 

Foxestalk -

 

[st albans fox]

of course if omicron is the way out of this to become endemic then the antis will claim they were right not to be vaxed. 
 

they won’t appreciate the irony of not being locked down since July in the face of delta …..

[Spudulike]

1 minute ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

we have to let our own immunity systems deal with it. you simply cannot keep have a jab every time this happens.

Why not? 

[PAPA LAZAROU]

5 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

The vaccine is tried and tested -  it's been in full circulation for a year now. Those who were originally part of the trials have had the vaccine for anything up to 18 to 20 months. 

It has not been tested for long term damage. No vaccine has ever been rushed out so fast in the history of vaccines. And as it's turned out it's pretty useless anyway.

[21st Century Fox]

[PAPA LAZAROU]

2 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

Why not? 

Because you would need a jab too frequently as it mutates so fast. 

[PAPA LAZAROU]

Just now, 21st Century Fox said:

Yeah good point. No more said.

[FoxesDeb]

40 minutes ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

To be honest I fully expect the response I got. As Mark Twain said ,it's easier to lie to people than to get people to admit they have been lied too. you all spout government propaganda which changes like the wind and yet you still believe what they tell you. suddenly you are all experts on all matters concerning COVID.  Well there are twenty million like me in this country alone who have declined the kind offer of a jab so I'm not alone. People on here have a least admitted that even with the jabs they can still get it and pass it on, yet it did not stop them attending matches in their thousands. That says all I need to know about the IQ of joe public.

Mark Twain also said 'it is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt'.

[NaijaFox]

10 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

You’d shutdown crowds at football forever incase ONE person dies from COVID?

 

What about those who are killed on the road by another driver whilst driving to an away game? 
 

Almost every death is needless, if you don’t want a needless death then you stay indoors, don’t leave the house, don’t use candles or gas (They could start a fire which burns your neighbours house down and kills them). 
 

Don’t take this the wrong way but it sounds like you’re literally afraid of your own shadow, it’s like a mental illness IMO, that’s the scary thing. 

Yes, many things can kill, but that reality does not vitiate the need to minimize easily avoidable dangers.

Attending live football games is not one of those activities that is so crucial to living that it cannot be temporarily paused.

 

PS: BTW, mental illness is too serious a subject matter (ask folks like [decided to remove the FTer’s name for privacy reasons] who’ve actually battled with it) to use to score cheap polemic points. I realize that some folks think that going to football games and screaming obscenities at people probably half their age (and in the midst of children) makes them ‘tough and courageous’, but you frankly need to Do Better. “Winning” an Internet argument  with anonymous folks is not worthy of such a crass dig. SMH

>

Edited 22 December 2021 by NaijaFox

[Guest Dirkster the Fox]

13 minutes ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

Not at all. I'm not posting to wind anyone up just to voice a different view. And up to now apart from the personal abuse I have enjoyed the debate.

Fair enough, debate and opinions. 

 

Personally I'm double jabbed and about to go for a booster tomorrow. but I find it distasteful some of the pro-jab zealot comments on here.

 

Jabs are risky, they have been rushed, people are classed as dying from them (over 1800 I believe is the current figure) the message about their impact has changed and it is justifiable to question the financial and society influences around taking more and more vaccines into the future.

 

What happened to the message about taking Vitamin D and healthy living for example?

 

[Gravel]

1 minute ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

And as it's turned out it's pretty useless anyway.

Admittedly it's not a panacea but the stats show that since vaccinations began infections, hospital admissions and deaths have reduced so to say this is a bit illogical.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jobyfox]

44 minutes ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

To be honest I fully expect the response I got. As Mark Twain said ,it's easier to lie to people than to get people to admit they have been lied too. you all spout government propaganda which changes like the wind and yet you still believe what they tell you. suddenly you are all experts on all matters concerning COVID.  Well there are twenty million like me in this country alone who have declined the kind offer of a jab so I'm not alone. People on here have a least admitted that even with the jabs they can still get it and pass it on, yet it did not stop them attending matches in their thousands. That says all I need to know about the IQ of joe public.

I really must leave this thread alone as this is a football forum after all, but I’ll make this my last post on this topic. 

 

We were told during the Brexit campaign that people have had enough of experts. Whatever your position was on that particular debate is not the relevant point here. It was a clear ploy to detract people away from researched analytics and facts towards a more emotional response to voting intention. The irony now is many of the same proponents are saying that we must follow expert advice in the response to Covid – and so they should. 

 

It’s ok to regard government propaganda with a healthy dose of scepticism. This government are masters of detraction, bluster and simple rhetoric to appeal to the masses; but please look around the messages and listen to the experts (despite what we’ve previously been told to do). There are thousands of academics, immunologists, virologists, doctors and medical experts who have been looking at Covid and doing research into its transmission. The reason I treat conspiracy theorists with disdain is I truly can’t believe that all these people could be cajoled into keeping secrets to themselves. Boris currently couldn’t even fart in a cabinet meeting without it being leaked to the press – so it truly bemuses me how anybody could think that all these people would be capable of a huge cover up. Somebody, somewhere, would delight in breaking rank. 

 

I always wonder what other medical interventions people who won’t have the vaccine would deny themselves if they were to become necessary: blood transfusion, chemotherapy, paracetamol, cough syrup, tetanus jab, hay fever tablets, gas and air etc. All of these have been developed by medical research, all of them have various degrees of risk and all of them can prevent, or ease the symptoms, of serious illness - or give pain relief. If you do accept these things then what makes the vaccine a special exception? 

 

I like the Mark Twain quote and have used it myself as an analogy in political debate where public opinion is frequently manipulated. But I’m not trusting politicians here, but academics and medical science. Yes, they could be wrong, but I struggle to believe that these hundreds and thousands of ordinary, non-political, people are not acting in good faith.

[sacreblueits442]

1 minute ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

we have to let our own immunity systems deal with it. you simply cannot keep have a jab every time this happens.

...if the trend is for the mutation to become less deadly then I would suppose that your decision could be proven to be right!!!

  If it takes the form of influenza then, we have lived with that for some time, and it has been here for a long time, without a 100% effective preventative solution.

  If you are looking at "herd immunity", that was Boris's original take on this at the start of the pandemic, and in this case, it doesn't work.

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

My attitude has changed a lot since the start of the pandemic. Of course we should take precautions where possible - masks, hand gel etc - but this will be around forever and how long are we going to stop doing things or radically changing our way of life? 
 

Btw I work in heath research so I’m all for valuing human life etc, but there comes a tipping point where the health, wellbeing and mental health of the general population needs to be acknowledged as also being important - let alone that peoples livelihoods and businesses are going to the wall.

 

I’ve had my 3 jabs - as I think a responsible person should. Life is a risk. I could get hit by a bus on my way to Anfield tonight, but at least I would go doing something I enjoyed. Life’s too short. Let’s take precautions and get on with life.

[FoxinNotts]

15 minutes ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

It has not been tested for long term damage. No vaccine has ever been rushed out so fast in the history of vaccines. And as it's turned out it's pretty useless anyway.

😴😴

If you want to focus on long term damage, you should be more worried about the unknown long term damage of contracting Covid rather than and effects of a vaccine, which is safe.

[FoxinNotts]

2 minutes ago, Wasyls Pec Deck said:

My attitude has changed a lot since the start of the pandemic. Of course we should take precautions where possible - masks, hand gel etc - but this will be around forever and how long are we going to stop doing things or radically changing our way of life? 
 

Btw I work in heath research so I’m all for valuing human life etc, but there comes a tipping point where the health, wellbeing and mental health of the general population needs to be acknowledged as also being important - let alone that peoples livelihoods and businesses are going to the wall.

 

I’ve had my 3 jabs - as I think a responsible person should. Life is a risk. I could get hit by a bus on my way to Anfield tonight, but at least I would go doing something I enjoyed. Life’s too short. Let’s take precautions and get on with life.

Spot on

[CosbehFox]

 

23 minutes ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

It has not been tested for long term damage. No vaccine has ever been rushed out so fast in the history of vaccines. And as it's turned out it's pretty useless anyway.

I need to say no more. 

[Spudulike]

20 minutes ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

Because you would need a jab too frequently as it mutates so fast. 

I've had 3 this year (and a flu jab) and I'm more than happy to have another 3 next year if it means I'm less likely to spread it and it keeps me out of an ICU dying a horrible death (I've seen what it's like). 

[Wymsey]

Stop embarrassing yourself, please.

[hejammy]

Papas arguments are those of that which stand on the roundabout of the M69 with placards suggesting the government are lying to us about covid, aliens, monsters, money, life, hairdressers, the moon, a round earth etc etc. "Useless vaccine" 

With regards to his point about it being safe, I'm sure the hundreds of thousands of scientists (with no vested interest to make money or lie) are taking the vaccine for the 'crack of it' 

 

As others have said. I'm sure he's pulling our leg for the "debate" 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

30 minutes ago, Wasyls Pec Deck said:

My attitude has changed a lot since the start of the pandemic. Of course we should take precautions where possible - masks, hand gel etc - but this will be around forever and how long are we going to stop doing things or radically changing our way of life? 
 

Btw I work in heath research so I’m all for valuing human life etc, but there comes a tipping point where the health, wellbeing and mental health of the general population needs to be acknowledged as also being important - let alone that peoples livelihoods and businesses are going to the wall.

 

I’ve had my 3 jabs - as I think a responsible person should. Life is a risk. I could get hit by a bus on my way to Anfield tonight, but at least I would go doing something I enjoyed. Life’s too short. Let’s take precautions and get on with life.

I'm exactly the same. I've become more and more cynical of the whole thing as it's gone on. 

 

Summed up this morning as I tested for a mild virus I have no symptoms of, using a test kit made in the country it originated in so I can "safely" socialise with people who've already had it.

[NaijaFox]

On 21/12/2021 at 04:10, NaijaFox said:

Personally, and here I turn to PERSONAL experience, I'd rather listen to fake crowd noises (with the option to tune it out) than to ICU respiratory machines. For some of us, Covid is not fictional, abstract or theoretical.

10 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Don’t take this the wrong way but it sounds like you’re literally afraid of your own shadow, it’s like a mental illness IMO, that’s the scary thing. 

Would you think folks who (for example) had cancer or cardiac arrest and are keen to avoid a recurrence to be similarly “mentally ill”?! 

Edited 22 December 2021 by NaijaFox

[dsr-burnley]

1 hour ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

To be honest I fully expect the response I got. As Mark Twain said ,it's easier to lie to people than to get people to admit they have been lied too. you all spout government propaganda which changes like the wind and yet you still believe what they tell you. suddenly you are all experts on all matters concerning COVID.  Well there are twenty million like me in this country alone who have declined the kind offer of a jab so I'm not alone. People on here have a least admitted that even with the jabs they can still get it and pass it on, yet it did not stop them attending matches in their thousands. That says all I need to know about the IQ of joe public.

14 million of those 20 million are under 12 years old and therefore aren't eligible.  If you are genuinely arguing that the 5 year old next door hasn't had it so that's a point against the jab -