The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[Lionator]

Boris Johnson up in parliament today accused of misleading them. 

[StanSP]

why did the other thread go? 

[fox_favourite]

Got too political would be my guess 

[TiffToff88]

33 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Boris Johnson up in parliament today accused of misleading them. 

 

[Jon the Hat]

54 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Boris Johnson up in parliament today accused of misleading them. 

I read an interesting take on Boris 0 or at least on the birthday cake debacle.  Of the thousands of fixed penalty notices given out for breach of Covid regulations, how many of them were for people in their workplace with the people they work with having a 9 minute birthday celebration.  I am guessing it is none apart from these ones. How many were given out 2 years after the fact? I am guessing it is none apart from these ones.

 

Now it may be that there were other actual parties, but the hysteria around this one seems a little much.

[Facecloth]

13 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I read an interesting take on Boris 0 or at least on the birthday cake debacle.  Of the thousands of fixed penalty notices given out for breach of Covid regulations, how many of them were for people in their workplace with the people they work with having a 9 minute birthday celebration.  I am guessing it is none apart from these ones. How many were given out 2 years after the fact? I am guessing it is none apart from these ones.

 

Now it may be that there were other actual parties, but the hysteria around this one seems a little much.

Point one. All those people didn't write the rules we were all meant to follow or get fined, he did and broke them. Also even if people hung out after work in the canteen, how many went out a filled suitcases with booze to have a party? 

 

Point two. The parties are bad enough when its the guy who told us we couldn't do that but did it himself, it's the lies. If they weren't that bad, just hold your hands up, apologise and try to move on. But no he can't do that can he, his default position is to lie and dodge and scheme. If these really were nothing, then he could have just explained it, apologised and carried on, but if he's prepared to lie over what you say is nothing, what else will he lie about? Everything is my guess.

Edited 19 April 2022 by Facecloth

[Houdini Logic]

You seem to be missing the point... how many of those other fines were responsible for putting this into place, came up with the laws on it and preached that it must be followed? 

[Jon the Hat]

4 minutes ago, Houdini Logic said:

You seem to be missing the point... how many of those other fines were responsible for putting this into place, came up with the laws on it and preached that it must be followed? 

The point is there weren't any other fines for this, or for Nurses dancing together doing TikTok videos etc, because the point of the restrictions was to reduce groups of people getting together, not to punish people already working together for sharing a few minutes downtime.  While I do believe Boris is a liar, I think in this particular case he probably genuinely didn't for a second think he was doing anything wrong, and I am inclined to agree. I wait to see what else comes out regarding other parties and whether it proves he really lied to the house.

[Jon the Hat]

10 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Point one. All those people didn't write the rules we were all meant to follow or get fined, he did and broke them. Also even if people hung out after work in the canteen, how many went out a filled suitcases with booze to have a party? 

 

Point two. The parties are bad enough when its the guy who told us we couldn't do that but did it himself, it's the lies. If they weren't that bad, just hold your hands up, apologise and try to move on. But no he can't do that can he, his default position is to lie and dodge and scheme. If these really were nothing, then he could have just explained it, apologised and carried on, but if he's prepared to lie over what you say is nothing, what else will he lie about? Everything is my guess.

I think we need to wait and see whether it is determined Boris was at the suitcase booze party.

As I said above I think in this case he can argue he didn't think this was a party.  For the other cases with invitations and booze the opposite might be true, and if they can show he attended he should resign.

[Facecloth]

3 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

The point is there weren't any other fines for this, or for Nurses dancing together doing TikTok videos etc, because the point of the restrictions was to reduce groups of people getting together, not to punish people already working together for sharing a few minutes downtime.  While I do believe Boris is a liar, I think in this particular case he probably genuinely didn't for a second think he was doing anything wrong, and I am inclined to agree. I wait to see what else comes out regarding other parties and whether it proves he really lied to the house.

Hmmm thing is even people working together in offices should have been distancing and when possible working from home, that includes those at number 10. So all of them congregating in one room doesn't actually fit the rules does it? Also the nurses dancing on tiktok were still distancing, but also their working conditions were very different, they can't always social distance when treating patients, so I believe they would have been in bubbles. Those bubbles of people can do what they like tbh. And maybe the nurses should be fined, but once again, they didn't write the bloody rules they broke! If Number 10 was working in bubbles then maybe fair enough, but even if they were it seems like numerous bubbles getting together.

 

I don't think not knowing it was party is an excuse either. If you walk into a room with all your colleagues in it, all the potential bubbles in one room together, and there's a cake, your wife, your next door neighbour, even your decorator, I think it's pretty obvious it's a party.

[Jon the Hat]

13 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Hmmm thing is even people working together in offices should have been distancing and when possible working from home, that includes those at number 10. So all of them congregating in one room doesn't actually fit the rules does it? Also the nurses dancing on tiktok were still distancing, but also their working conditions were very different, they can't always social distance when treating patients, so I believe they would have been in bubbles. Those bubbles of people can do what they like tbh. And maybe the nurses should be fined, but once again, they didn't write the bloody rules they broke! If Number 10 was working in bubbles then maybe fair enough, but even if they were it seems like numerous bubbles getting together.

 

I don't think not knowing it was party is an excuse either. If you walk into a room with all your colleagues in it, all the potential bubbles in one room together, and there's a cake, your wife, your next door neighbour, even your decorator, I think it's pretty obvious it's a party.

I've said before don't think it is realistic to expect the government to be socially distancing in number 10.  It is also a bit silly to talk about his next door neighbor and wife who are clearly both also in the Number 10 bubble.

And no the nurses shouldn't be fined for the same reason.

It also worth noting this "party" was apparently reported on at the time and no one batted an eyelid.

Honestly there have been plenty of occasions when I have wanted Boris to go, but right now I don't (not yet anyway - he is finally doing some things right re Ukraine)  and I don't see this as serious enough to force his resignation.

[fox_up_north]

Having worked in a hospital and school over 2020/21 - I can say that staff were trying to social distance. Work social events weren't allowed (this meant no Christmas gatherings, end of term drinks, etc, as you would normally get). Canteens were limited and attendance staggered. It was a very regimented (and difficult to impose) system. At one stage, we were using video conferences even when everyone was physically on site so that we could limit interaction - that was Spring 2021. 

 

To think that, just two months into the first lockdown, they were having these kinds of events, after they themselves made the rules and have lied about it, is the most egregious issue. 

 

I get that Whitehall isn't built for social distancing, that's fine and I can absolutely picture 4-5 people being in a room because something has to happen. That's fine. What I hate is that, while I watched actual children die alone because their parents couldn't be with them, this lot had a fuching party. 

 

[StanSP]

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

and I don't see this as serious enough to force his resignation.

For me it's the accumulation of mess-ups and lack of leadership. Ultimately this party thing is just the tip of the iceberg on top of so many other things he could/should come into criticism for. The straw that broke the camel's back, if you will. 

 

But what is worse for him, is that a) these are rules he made/signed off and b) he's appeared to break them on more than one occasion. 

 

The first sitting Prime Minister to have committed a crime while in office. That's his legacy. A totally unwanted one but totally warranted. 

[Jon the Hat]

2 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

What I hate is that, while I watched actual children die alone because their parents couldn't be with them, this lot had a fuching party. 

 

Preventing family from being with their loved ones like that was a ridiculous and inhumane thing to do and I'm sorry you had to see that.

[rachhere]

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

I've said before don't think it is realistic to expect the government to be socially distancing in number 10.  It is also a bit silly to talk about his next door neighbor and wife who are clearly both also in the Number 10 bubble.

And no the nurses shouldn't be fined for the same reason.

It also worth noting this "party" was apparently reported on at the time and no one batted an eyelid.

Honestly there have been plenty of occasions when I have wanted Boris to go, but right now I don't (not yet anyway - he is finally doing some things right re Ukraine)  and I don't see this as serious enough to force his resignation.

It's not just one isolated event is it though. From what has emerged (and in particular that video in the press room) there was clearly a culture within downing street of those working there thinking that the rules didn't apply to them. What they said in that video demonstrates that they clearly knew what they were doing was wrong. Boris then proceeded to lie about it multiple times in parliament.

 

From an individual perspective it doesn't 'bother' me that much because lockdown didn't cost me to that extent, but when I look at how it impacted those who didn't get to have proper funerals, to be with loved ones who were dying, etc, when I think from their perspective I am furious about the whole thing. 

 

 

[Facecloth]

10 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I've said before don't think it is realistic to expect the government to be socially distancing in number 10.  It is also a bit silly to talk about his next door neighbor and wife who are clearly both also in the Number 10 bubble.

And no the nurses shouldn't be fined for the same reason.

It also worth noting this "party" was apparently reported on at the time and no one batted an eyelid.

Honestly there have been plenty of occasions when I have wanted Boris to go, but right now I don't (not yet anyway - he is finally doing some things right re Ukraine)  and I don't see this as serious enough to force his resignation.

So we go back to, why lie? If it was fine, why lie? If it was fine, why was he fined? If he'll lie about this, what else will he lie about?

 

And he's talking well about Ukraine, but what is he actually doing? We have a next to useless Ukrainian refugee scheme, we've done what most other countries have done in terms of sanctions and he's called out Putin on his behaviour. I mean the second two are standard and the first one we could be doing better. So I'm not sure why you think he's been so brilliant on it. Flying out there and walking round Kyiv, well done, not sure that's reason enough to keep the bumbling fool in office.

[Jon the Hat]

3 minutes ago, rachhere said:

It's not just one isolated event is it though. From what has emerged (and in particular that video in the press room) there was clearly a culture within downing street of those working there thinking that the rules didn't apply to them. What they said in that video demonstrates that they clearly knew what they were doing was wrong. Boris then proceeded to lie about it multiple times in parliament.

 

From an individual perspective it doesn't 'bother' me that much because lockdown didn't cost me to that extent, but when I look at how it impacted those who didn't get to have proper funerals, to be with loved ones who were dying, etc, when I think from their perspective I am furious about the whole thing. 

 

Very fair points, and hard to disagree they though the rules were for everyone else.

[Jon the Hat]

Just now, Facecloth said:

So we go back to, why lie? If it was fine, why lie? If it was fine, why was he fined? If he'll lie about this, what else will he lie about?

 

And he's talking well about Ukraine, but what is he actually doing? We have a next to useless Ukrainian refugee scheme, we've done what most other countries have done in terms of sanctions and he's called out Putin on his behaviour. I mean the second two are standard and the first one we could be doing better. So I'm not sure why you think he's been so brilliant on it. Flying out there and walking round Kyiv, well done, not sure that's reason enough to keep the bumbling fool in office.

We sent the first weapons to Ukraine, the SAS are on the ground training the military leaders.  We led on sanctions and removed all trade tariffs for Ukraine exports.  Boris has been a strong Ally and Ukraine have said that time and again.  Britain has soft power and Boris is wielding it effectively.  For a change!  The Ukraine immigrant scheme is clearly crap though.

[Facecloth]

Just now, Jon the Hat said:

We sent the first weapons to Ukraine, the SAS are on the ground training the military leaders.  We led on sanctions and removed all trade tariffs for Ukraine exports.  Boris has been a strong Ally and Ukraine have said that time and again.  Britain has soft power and Boris is wielding it effectively.  For a change!  The Ukraine immigrant scheme is clearly crap though.

And you think we wouldn't with someone else in charge? 

 

We as a nation we will still back Ukraine whoever is in charge, so my immediate concern is life here, where by your own admission he's not doing a great job, added to the rule breaking and the lies, he needs to go.

[Daggers]

Vile toxic party needs a decade out of office again. 

[Facecloth]

2 minutes ago, Daggers said:

Vile toxic party needs a decade out of office again. 

Just a decade? Why so short?

[Facecloth]

Starmer is spot on, Johnson is using Ukraine as a shield to keep his job. Using the suffering of people in a war to cling onto power.

[Facecloth]

 

 

[bovril]

Why was the last thread deleted?

[Facecloth]

Just now, bovril said:

Why was the last thread deleted?

Tradition.