The Championship Thread 2023/2024

[StanSP]

Just now, Lillehamring said:

If we finish with 97 points and miss out, there's no shame in that, that's automatic most seasons

There is when you consider the value and talent in our squad... 

[Lillehamring]

On 19/03/2024 at 07:11, Bert said:

You could say the only game we didn’t deserve to win out of any of them is Leeds at home. 

And even that game we hit the post and had the ball saved off the goal line.

[CosbehFox]

1 minute ago, StanSP said:

There is when you consider the value and talent in our squad... 

and you miss out a team who are newly promoted and their budget is firmly middle of the pack

[Tuna]

!

Edited 20 March by Tuna

[HankMarvin]

1 hour ago, Lillehamring said:

Really?  You can't understand the difference between capability and reality?

 

Look at the run before we lost to boro - 1 loss in 16 games!  - no one got near us, even that loss we had 10 men.

 

 

No one got near us?

Presuming you are talking about the second time we lost to boro

 

it was a very fortuitous run in terms of the quality of the teams we played. how many games were against top half of the table opposition?

When the quality of the opposition improved, Ipswich 2 draws, Coventry defeat, plus 94th minute winner against WBA on the run you mentioned above certainly wouldn’t suggest no one got near us just like how the run ended when the level of opposition improved.

 

 

 

Edited 20 March by HankMarvin

[Lillehamring]

On 19/03/2024 at 08:09, CosbehFox said:

 

No-one outside Leicester would say 6th is a good season. We have the biggest budget in the league. We have internationals from England, Belgium, Portugal, Denmark, Ghana and Nigeria. We have the best training facility in the league, if not top ten in the country. Every bookmaker had us in their top two teams for promotion for a reason. 

 

Leeds and Southampton have had to deal with 'messes' post relegation and manage their squads. Ipswich have done incredibly well with their resources to be in contention. 

 

There's nothing entitled, very optimistic or arrogant to expect a relegated side with the biggest budget in the division to finish in the top two. Even more so that it's apparent the club have gambled heavily on it financially. 

Keep on living in your fantasy world where everything you expect to happen actually happens.

 

All those arguments why you think we 'should' be top 2 are blown out of the water by the fact that Ipswich have none of them and still achieving the same results.

Based on your logic Chelsea shouldn't be 25 points off the top of the league, but they are because, guess what, big salaries don't always equal success, loads of internationals don't even equal success etc etc.

 

Go back to the start of the season and look at people's predictions and expectations, not many people were saying automatic, quite a few said pushing for playoffs - but there were also mid-table and relegated predictions flying around.  Besides, the 6th place thing was in reference to the standard of our performances in 2024 not an analysis of the season as a whole.

[CosbehFox]

7 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

Keep on living in your fantasy world where everything you expect to happen actually happens.

 

All those arguments why you think we 'should' be top 2 are blown out of the water by the fact that Ipswich have none of them and still achieving the same results.

Based on your logic Chelsea shouldn't be 25 points off the top of the league, but they are because, guess what, big salaries don't always equal success, loads of internationals don't even equal success etc etc.

 

Go back to the start of the season and look at people's predictions and expectations, not many people were saying automatic, quite a few said pushing for playoffs - but there were also mid-table and relegated predictions flying around.  Besides, the 6th place thing was in reference to the standard of our performances in 2024 not an analysis of the season as a whole.

Yeah they shouldn’t be there. They should be up in the top six 
 

If you have that resource and misuse it, that’s a failure of the club collectively. 
 

Ipswich are doing incredibly well this season and deserve far more coverage than they are getting. It’s really understated. Equally Southampton are making a mess. 
 

I have a copy of the season guide racing post here (keep it every year) - well informed punters have Leicester as 1st - favourite to win the league. As opposed to LCFC fans with biased views to our own optimism or negativity, that’s neutrals looking in. 

Edited 20 March by CosbehFox

[Jobyfox]

15 minutes ago, Tuna said:

!

Yep. I’ve got to agree with that 

Edited 20 March by Jobyfox

[Lillehamring]

On 19/03/2024 at 08:23, Pliskin said:

This is pure nonsense…. 
 

Anything other than 1st is a failure. Even second is only slightly acceptable.

 

This is the most expensive squad the championship has ever seen. We have players who have no right playing at this level, it’s not arrogant, it’s an expectation, if we don’t finish in the top two, this season would have been an epic disaster, even if we managed to scrape through the play offs. Throwing away a 13 point lead over Leeds and 18 over Ipswich is unacceptable.

 

And your point of makeshift squad isn’t true, the manager chooses to make us makeshift due to his philosophy….. I like Enzo I really do, but if Farke was our manager we’d likely be top on my opinion and probably streets ahead, where we should be. 

Honestly, not knowing how well maresca and the team would work, would you have said that at the start of the season? Surely not.  Would you have taken 6th? I think many would.

 

Also, the point about 6th was simply that our form in 2024 (which was described as poor) was still good enough to have got us 69 points (which i do not think is poor)

 

And Maresca did not get the squad he wanted, he didn't chose to have a DM playing as an #8, or a right footed FB playing as a left CB.  It was to do with budget and not being able to offload players - pretty obvious i would have thought.

 

As for Farke, seeing as he's actually doing exactly as well as Enzo, your prediction falls flat - he's no more promoted Leeds right now than Enzo has promoted us.  Besides, Farke isn't a good bet to do well in the PL based on his track record at that level.

[HankMarvin]

9 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

Go back to the start of the season and look at people's predictions and expectations, not many people were saying automatic, quite a few said pushing for playoffs - but there were also mid-table and relegated predictions flying around

Bookies favourites not sure what you are reading 

[Lillehamring]

On 19/03/2024 at 08:53, Sol thewall Bamba said:

I can't believe what I've just read

 

The revisionism is unmatched.

You think we wanted to still have all the dead wood? To be taking players on Loan?

If that's not makeshift i don't know what is - he's not had three years and an unlimited budget to assemble players like Casadei and Coady

[StanSP]

7 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

Would you have taken 6th? I think many would.

I doubt it! 

[Chocolate Teapot]

5 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

You think we wanted to still have all the dead wood? To be taking players on Loan?

If that's not makeshift i don't know what is - he's not had three years and an unlimited budget to assemble players like Casadei and Coady

He's had the biggest budget in the league by some distance.....

[Lillehamring]

On 19/03/2024 at 09:02, Number 6 said:

Mate this league is dogshit. Look at where the 3 relegated teams sit. Not going up would be a massive failure with the resources we had. Not arrogance, just the realities of the gap between divisions.

 

Running at 2.5ppg and dropping form to 1.5ppg and surrendering a large lead is pretty much the dictionary definition of bottling something...unless you think our actual true level is 1.5ppg.

 

The only real counter to saying we've bottled it at this stage is that the season isn't over. If we rectify the form over the remainder of the season and take 1st the we've bottled nothing.

You can get the 'current' points per game to be any figure from 0.8ppg if you take the last five games, to 1.7 if you take the last 10 games, to 2 if you take the last 2 games  - so it doesn't really stand up as proof that we've bottled it.  before our brief poor run we won 4 in a row.

 

As for blowing a big lead - there is certainly an arrogance to believing that that only exists to show our superiority, the lead gave us breathing space to have got through a bad patch where things didn't go well, when we were missing two key members of the spine of our team. It's mental to think that people actually believed we might not have a little wobble, that fans assumed we'd just breeze through with a 13 point cushion.

 

People need to get some perspective and look at the bigger picture rather than panicking because of the impact of losing 3 straight games.

If we have 'bottled it' we only bottled it for 3 games - all of which we could easily have won, bottling it for me is giving up; it's not the same as having a tough run of games that didn't go our way but on another day could have easily been 3 wins.

[Lillehamring]

36 minutes ago, StanSP said:

There is when you consider the value and talent in our squad... 

Which is meaningless.  We had more value and talent last year and got relegated.

 

You think chelsea fans are happy with the 'value and talent' in their squad?  Sometimes the burden of knowing how much value and talent is on display can be greater than the reward of actually having it.

 

At the end of the day, assuming that we should finish higher than leeds, southampton or ipswich is the equivalent of 'we're too good to go down'.

[Col city fan]

2 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

You can get the 'current' points per game to be any figure from 0.8ppg if you take the last five games, to 1.7 if you take the last 10 games, to 2 if you take the last 2 games  - so it doesn't really stand up as proof that we've bottled it.  before our brief poor run we won 4 in a row.

 

As for blowing a big lead - there is certainly an arrogance to believing that that only exists to show our superiority, the lead gave us breathing space to have got through a bad patch where things didn't go well, when we were missing two key members of the spine of our team. It's mental to think that people actually believed we might not have a little wobble, that fans assumed we'd just breeze through with a 13 point cushion.

 

People need to get some perspective and look at the bigger picture rather than panicking because of the impact of losing 3 straight games.

If we have 'bottled it' we only bottled it for 3 games - all of which we could easily have won, bottling it for me is giving up; it's not the same as having a tough run of games that didn't go our way but on another day could have easily been 3 wins.

I notice you are very pro Maresca and happy to argue down any opposing view. This again does remind me of last season on FT where many were saying we were too good to be relegated.

The reality is we were 17 points above Leeds, who are now above us. We can talk about tactics, formations, who we should have signed, who we should have sold in January etc till the cows come home.

17 points above the main rival side in the promotion battle is an incredible feat. As you said, it describes a club in total dominance for large parts of the season.

BUT… Leeds have made it up and caught us. Ipswich aren’t at all far behind. Given where we were and the points difference, this shouldn’t have happened and for anyone to wonder why it has happened is asking a perfectly rational question. Anyone would. Any fan of any club in the position we were in would be questioning how the Hell this could have happened.

We can only hope you are right and this demise (because that’s what it is, no question), is a ‘blip’ and we will bounce back.

If we don’t, and remain in the Championship, it would be incredulous. All the pundits who have been praising us to the skies for months, would analyse the demise ad infinitum. And they’d be right to do so.

[StanSP]

2 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

Which is meaningless.  We had more value and talent last year and got relegated.

 

You think chelsea fans are happy with the 'value and talent' in their squad?  Sometimes the burden of knowing how much value and talent is on display can be greater than the reward of actually having it.

 

At the end of the day, assuming that we should finish higher than leeds, southampton or ipswich is the equivalent of 'we're too good to go down'.

It's not meaningless. And comparative to some of the league last season, no we didn't have more value and talent. 

But this season, our budget and value and ability in the side means there's no excuses to not see off promotion. Both pre season and where we are now. 

 

I'm not sure what you want everyone to say. Just to bow down and accept not getting promoted. Because of what? Just that it's football and that it happens? Well we as a club and fan base should do all we can to not let just football play out and do what we can to finish the job off. 

[Lillehamring]

35 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

No one got near us?

Presuming you are talking about the second time we lost to boro

 

it was a very fortuitous run in terms of the quality of the teams we played. how many games were against top half of the table opposition?

When the quality of the opposition improved, Ipswich 2 draws, Coventry defeat, plus 94th minute winner against WBA on the run you mentioned above certainly wouldn’t suggest no one got near us just like how the run ended when the level of opposition improved.

 

 

What!  We played 16 different teams - that two thirds of the league - we still had to beat them.

We won TWELVE games.  Twelve. And the only teams that got close to a win were: ipswich (twice), Coventry (with an extra man), and sheffield wednesday. 

 

 

I'm sorry, you can try to spin 12 wins from 16 as being a negative, but it's bollocks, that's genuine domination

 

For what it's worth, go look at the teams leeds have played in their current run - other than us, they played only cardiff, preston and norwich in the top half.

[Lillehamring]

33 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Yeah they shouldn’t be there. They should be up in the top six 
 

If you have that resource and misuse it, that’s a failure of the club collectively. 
 

Ipswich are doing incredibly well this season and deserve far more coverage than they are getting. It’s really understated. Equally Southampton are making a mess. 
 

I have a copy of the season guide racing post here (keep it every year) - well informed punters have Leicester as 1st - favourite to win the league. As opposed to LCFC fans with biased views to our own optimism or negativity, that’s neutrals looking in. 

But we are not languishing in mid-table like chelsea, we're in 2nd place on GD, with a game in hand - people are talking like the season's over and we're done for, that the season has been a write off.

We do have one of the best squads and that reflects in our position - it's getting tiring trying to explain to people that we're still doing incredibly well, yes we had a wobble, but we're back to seeing out games again.

 

Well informed punters, probably didn't fully understand the shit that was happening. no one knew what would happen with maresca, certainly i'd bet no one expected us to have had such a lead.

[Pliskin]

19 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

Honestly, not knowing how well maresca and the team would work, would you have said that at the start of the season? Surely not.  Would you have taken 6th? I think many would.

 

Also, the point about 6th was simply that our form in 2024 (which was described as poor) was still good enough to have got us 69 points (which i do not think is poor)

 

And Maresca did not get the squad he wanted, he didn't chose to have a DM playing as an #8, or a right footed FB playing as a left CB.  It was to do with budget and not being able to offload players - pretty obvious i would have thought.

 

As for Farke, seeing as he's actually doing exactly as well as Enzo, your prediction falls flat - he's no more promoted Leeds right now than Enzo has promoted us.  Besides, Farke isn't a good bet to do well in the PL based on his track record at that level.

We’ve the highest wage bill in the league….. still potentially significantly higher that most in the lower half of the premier league. 
 

We have players like Vestergaard, Faes, Ricardo, Winks, N’didi, Vardy, Kalechi all players who are far too good for this league. 
 

We’ve also spent significant money at this level on Hermensen, Coady, Winks, Mavididi and Cannon……

 

I will accept nothing other that 1st, 6th would be completely unacceptable… the squad we have is far too good to be playing at this level. This squad used properly should be streets ahead. 
 

And for Farke, next season is irrelevant he’s excellent at getting teams promoted, which is what his task is. 
 

Maresca may not have the squad he wants, but he has a good enough squad to achieve the goal, he just needs to realise this and put it before his philosophy. 

[Lillehamring]

33 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

Bookies favourites not sure what you are reading 

Bookies, schmookies.

 

Look at the threads on this forum - half the people thought we'd be in a relegation battle!

[Lillehamring]

28 minutes ago, StanSP said:

I doubt it! 

Then you obviously had a lot more faith in maresca transforming a bunch of over paid underperforming relegated premier league stars, a smattering of jaded talent and a handful of unknowns than anyone else did.

[Lillehamring]

29 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

He's had the biggest budget in the league by some distance.....

Yes, but he didn't replace the majority of the squad - only a few spots like hermansen and winks et al - the rest was what he'd inherited or what he could scrape together from loans and the academy.  Makeshift.

[CosbehFox]

1 minute ago, Lillehamring said:

But we are not languishing in mid-table like chelsea, we're in 2nd place on GD, with a game in hand - people are talking like the season's over and we're done for, that the season has been a write off.

We do have one of the best squads and that reflects in our position - it's getting tiring trying to explain to people that we're still doing incredibly well, yes we had a wobble, but we're back to seeing out games again.

 

Well informed punters, probably didn't fully understand the shit that was happening. no one knew what would happen with maresca, certainly i'd bet no one expected us to have had such a lead.

Your point was that 6th would be an acceptable position. Or that form to the equivalent of it is acceptable. 
 

I challenged that because based on budget, squad and resource that would be a failure. As the bookmakers and punters viewed it. 
 

I happen to think we will make the top two. 

[HankMarvin]

21 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

What!  We played 16 different teams - that two thirds of the league - we still had to beat them.

We won TWELVE games.  Twelve. And the only teams that got close to a win were: ipswich (twice), Coventry (with an extra man), and sheffield wednesday. 

 

 

I'm sorry, you can try to spin 12 wins from 16 as being a negative, but it's bollocks, that's genuine domination

 

For what it's worth, go look at the teams leeds have played in their current run - other than us, they played only cardiff, preston and norwich in the top half.

Looks at the opposition listed in the games. for one it’s not 16 different teams the only bollocks is what you repeatedly spout in different directions.
 

You said no one could touch which again is bollocks, when the opposition has improved defeats have come that my friend not up for debate. 
 

what has Leeds run for to do with anything? I’m highlighting on the basis of a 16 game run you seem to think we are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Edited 20 March by HankMarvin