The Championship Thread 2023/2024

[Mickyblueeyes]

1 hour ago, Lillehamring said:

Keep on living in your fantasy world where everything you expect to happen actually happens.

 

All those arguments why you think we 'should' be top 2 are blown out of the water by the fact that Ipswich have none of them and still achieving the same results.

Based on your logic Chelsea shouldn't be 25 points off the top of the league, but they are because, guess what, big salaries don't always equal success, loads of internationals don't even equal success etc etc.

 

Go back to the start of the season and look at people's predictions and expectations, not many people were saying automatic, quite a few said pushing for playoffs - but there were also mid-table and relegated predictions flying around.  Besides, the 6th place thing was in reference to the standard of our performances in 2024 not an analysis of the season as a whole.

Ipswich shouldn’t be anywhere near the race for the top 2. The fact they are is an exceptional achievement.

 

Chelsea with what they’ve spent shouldn’t be mid table. It’s a disaster for them that they are. 
 

We shouldn’t finish anywhere outside the top 2, it can happen but clapping them off and saying fair play you bunch of international, highly paid flops shouldn’t happen either. 
 

call a spade a spade - anything less than top 2 would be disgraceful. Anything less than promotion would be a disaster. Sure it can happen but it bloody well shouldn’t and there shouldn’t be any excuse for it.

Edited 20 March by Mickyblueeyes

[HankMarvin]

9 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

Bookies, schmookies.

 

Look at the threads on this forum - half the people thought we'd be in a relegation battle!

Oh yeah what do bookies know, people opinions on forums like yourself hold much more weight clearly.

 

Half the people on here thought we would get relegated from the championship, ok mate time to turn off.

Edited 20 March by HankMarvin

[Pliskin]

23 minutes ago, StanSP said:

It's not meaningless. And comparative to some of the league last season, no we didn't have more value and talent. 

But this season, our budget and value and ability in the side means there's no excuses to not see off promotion. Both pre season and where we are now. 

 

I'm not sure what you want everyone to say. Just to bow down and accept not getting promoted. Because of what? Just that it's football and that it happens? Well we as a club and fan base should do all we can to not let just football play out and do what we can to finish the job off. 

This x 1000.

[StanSP]

10 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

Then you obviously had a lot more faith in maresca transforming a bunch of over paid underperforming relegated premier league stars, a smattering of jaded talent and a handful of unknowns than anyone else did.

I had a lot of faith, yes! Because a lot of the players we have are better than a lot of other players in the division. Why is that so hard to comprehend? 

 

 

[Sly]

Can we all agree that what you pay for a player, then what you pay them in wages, has no actual reflection on the ability of that player? 
 

Chelsea have clearly overspent and are over paying for the players they have on the books. 
 

Likewise, Ipswich have been shrewd and built a solid squad.

 

Both deserve to be where they are right now, as we deserved to get relegated last season. You might not like it, but we sleep walked into it after not altering the factor that was sapping morale from the squad. 

[Collymore]

This thread is unnecessarily hot. 

[Lillehamring]

18 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

I notice you are very pro Maresca and happy to argue down any opposing view. This again does remind me of last season on FT where many were saying we were too good to be relegated.

The reality is we were 17 points above Leeds, who are now above us. We can talk about tactics, formations, who we should have signed, who we should have sold in January etc till the cows come home.

17 points above the main rival side in the promotion battle is an incredible feat. As you said, it describes a club in total dominance for large parts of the season.

BUT… Leeds have made it up and caught us. Ipswich aren’t at all far behind. Given where we were and the points difference, this shouldn’t have happened and for anyone to wonder why it has happened is asking a perfectly rational question. Anyone would. Any fan of any club in the position we were in would be questioning how the Hell this could have happened.

We can only hope you are right and this demise (because that’s what it is, no question), is a ‘blip’ and we will bounce back.

If we don’t, and remain in the Championship, it would be incredulous. All the pundits who have been praising us to the skies for months, would analyse the demise ad infinitum. And they’d be right to do so.

Well it happened because leeds hit their best form and we hit our worst - what more do you expect me to say.

We've had periods of dominance, Leeds have had periods of dominance

We've had a bad run, they've had a bad run.

 

That's why we're now neck and neck.

 

If i have to 'argue down' people who can't understand that that's how sports works, it's not for pleasure, it's through frustration.

 

How the hell did it happen -well ok, you asked.

 

1. Fixtures: leeds have had a run where the best four teams they've played were us preston norwich and cardiff; we've played leeds, ipswhich twice, cardiff, coventry, boro and hull

2. Injuries: yes all teams have them but crucially for us it has been to ricardo and ndidi - two key components in the spine of our team and the essence of our success earlier on.

3. psychology: there was no pressure on leeds they had nothing to lose, whilst we were there to be shot down.

 

I'm sure there's more, i've not even discussed shitty refs and bad luck...  But that's it, it's not just a case of us bottling it or being sussed out, it's just the natural ebb and flow of a looooooong season.

[Lillehamring]

28 minutes ago, StanSP said:

It's not meaningless. And comparative to some of the league last season, no we didn't have more value and talent. 

But this season, our budget and value and ability in the side means there's no excuses to not see off promotion. Both pre season and where we are now. 

 

I'm not sure what you want everyone to say. Just to bow down and accept not getting promoted. Because of what? Just that it's football and that it happens? Well we as a club and fan base should do all we can to not let just football play out and do what we can to finish the job off. 

What! Wait!  Where have i ever said that?

This discussion is about how a high value squad is no guarantee of first place - I've total faith in us getting promoted, i've said countless times that i'm not panicking because we had a wobble.

I think we'll go up because we play great football, that we've never really been out-played.

 

I think we've missed ndidi and ricardo, and with them back, i think we'll pick up the form and improve confidence, you could see the improvement in the chelsea game, against a tough pair of teams in hull and sunderland.

 

You do me wrong, sir - i think i've been as positive and optimistic as anyone on here.

[CosbehFox]

7 minutes ago, Sly said:

Can we all agree that what you pay for a player, then what you pay them in wages, has no actual reflection on the ability of that player? 
 

Chelsea have clearly overspent and are over paying for the players they have on the books. 
 

Likewise, Ipswich have been shrewd and built a solid squad.

 

Both deserve to be where they are right now, as we deserved to get relegated last season. You might not like it, but we sleep walked into it after not altering the factor that was sapping morale from the squad. 

Yeah agreed. 
 

However if you have a larger budget available, your capabilities to get it right are heavily increased. For example, not every club in the championship is capable of spending £7million on a fourth choice striker ala Leicester. 
 

Hence bigger budget clubs are generally higher in the table. Only have to look how the Premier League and the Championship follow that pattern. Chelsea and Ipswich are two exceptions to it. 

[sylofox]

31 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

I notice you are very pro Maresca and happy to argue down any opposing view. This again does remind me of last season on FT where many were saying we were too good to be relegated.

The reality is we were 17 points above Leeds, who are now above us. We can talk about tactics, formations, who we should have signed, who we should have sold in January etc till the cows come home.

17 points above the main rival side in the promotion battle is an incredible feat. As you said, it describes a club in total dominance for large parts of the season.

BUT… Leeds have made it up and caught us. Ipswich aren’t at all far behind. Given where we were and the points difference, this shouldn’t have happened and for anyone to wonder why it has happened is asking a perfectly rational question. Anyone would. Any fan of any club in the position we were in would be questioning how the Hell this could have happened.

We can only hope you are right and this demise (because that’s what it is, no question), is a ‘blip’ and we will bounce back.

If we don’t, and remain in the Championship, it would be incredulous. All the pundits who have been praising us to the skies for months, would analyse the demise ad infinitum. And they’d be right to do so.

This reminds me very much of last season. Obviously in reverse. Same style of play all be it better. But still no plan b. Still we never try to stretch teams by breaking quick. Just play it around for 90 mins hoping for an opening to come our way.

 

As many have said our subs are confusing at times, hmm when did we last here that?

 

We seem to be throwing this season away like we did our prem status. Yet plod on the same regardless.

 

This season could yet bring another meaning to the, Doing a Leicester comment. Win the prem, get relegated from the prem then fvck up a mighty lead for promotion.

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, Lillehamring said:

The 'dominant position' was transitory - it doesn't matter how far ahead or behind you are at any point in the season, all that matters is what you get at the end.

 

If we finish with 97 points and miss out, there's no shame in that, that's automatic most seasons - so you can't criticise the team if they manage that.   2.1 points per game would be a sensational return given where we were at at the start of the season and the standard of the competition.

That's absolute rubbish. If we ended up on 97 points and missed out it'll be because we'd have amassed just 19 points from our final 14 games which would be atrocious. That's a 1/3 of the season - the home straight and we'd have ballsed it up once again.

 

I'm sick of fans trying to excuse when our club throw away glorious opportunities.

 

[Lillehamring]

17 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Your point was that 6th would be an acceptable position. Or that form to the equivalent of it is acceptable. 
 

I challenged that because based on budget, squad and resource that would be a failure. As the bookmakers and punters viewed it. 
 

I happen to think we will make the top two. 

NO NO NO.

 

Someone said that our form in 2024 has been poor, I pointed out that (at that time) it was the equivalent of 69 points which was good enough for 6th place, and that 6th place in the EFL, generally, isn't poor  (i didn't say it was acceptable, just not 'poor').

 

 

 

And as of now our 2024 form is now up to 1.66 points per game, which is better than the 4th placed team last year.  Again, simply stating that this is not 'poor'.

[sylofox]

12 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

Well it happened because leeds hit their best form and we hit our worst - what more do you expect me to say.

We've had periods of dominance, Leeds have had periods of dominance

We've had a bad run, they've had a bad run.

 

That's why we're now neck and neck.

 

If i have to 'argue down' people who can't understand that that's how sports works, it's not for pleasure, it's through frustration.

 

How the hell did it happen -well ok, you asked.

 

1. Fixtures: leeds have had a run where the best four teams they've played were us preston norwich and cardiff; we've played leeds, ipswhich twice, cardiff, coventry, boro and hull

2. Injuries: yes all teams have them but crucially for us it has been to ricardo and ndidi - two key components in the spine of our team and the essence of our success earlier on.

3. psychology: there was no pressure on leeds they had nothing to lose, whilst we were there to be shot down.

 

I'm sure there's more, i've not even discussed shitty refs and bad luck...  But that's it, it's not just a case of us bottling it or being sussed out, it's just the natural ebb and flow of a looooooong season.

Yet we've done nothing with our style of play to alter the results. Just kept ploding on regardless. Making to easy for teams to come and set up to stop our march on the title.

[CosbehFox]

10 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

NO NO NO.

 

Someone said that our form in 2024 has been poor, I pointed out that (at that time) it was the equivalent of 69 points which was good enough for 6th place, and that 6th place in the EFL, generally, isn't poor  (i didn't say it was acceptable, just not 'poor').

 

 

 

And as of now our 2024 form is now up to 1.66 points per game, which is better than the 4th placed team last year.  Again, simply stating that this is not 'poor'.

Firstly I don’t know why you keep using last year’s table as some comparable - an average of the previous last ten seasons would be better. 

 

6th place is poor for a club of Leicester City’s current standing. Particularly in the context, 69 points for 6th last season was a 10 season low for 6th place. 
 

Our 2024 table positioning is 8th. The point about last years table is irrelevant and tells us nothing. 

 

Edited 20 March by CosbehFox

[Lillehamring]

23 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

Looks at the opposition listed in the games. for one it’s not 16 different teams the only bollocks is what you repeatedly spout in different directions.
 

You said no one could touch which again is bollocks, when the opposition has improved defeats have come that my friend not up for debate. 
 

what has Leeds run for to do with anything? I’m highlighting on the basis of a 16 game run you seem to think we are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I think your just looking to find fault, now - rather than actally making any constructive argument.

 

Yes, we played ipswich twice - an anomaly i overlooked (apologies for that 'bollocks')

 

Again 1 loss in 16 games - i apologise for saying no one got near us, Coventry, with their man advantage got near us.  but we BEAT twelve teams in 16 games, i think the point that we are a good team is more important than how i've phrased it.

 

Leeds's run shows that it's impossible to have a run of games showcasing your talent by playing superior opposition every other week - it was to counter your suggestion that we 'got lucky' with our fixtures.

 

 

[Lillehamring]

31 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

Ipswich shouldn’t be anywhere near the race for the top 2. The fact they are is an exceptional achievement.

 

Chelsea with what they’ve spent shouldn’t be mid table. It’s a disaster for them that they are. 
 

We shouldn’t finish anywhere outside the top 2, it can happen but clapping them off and saying fair play you bunch of international, highly paid flops shouldn’t happen either. 
 

call a spade a spade - anything less than top 2 would be disgraceful. Anything less than promotion would be a disaster. Sure it can happen but it bloody well shouldn’t and there shouldn’t be any excuse for it.

I haven't said i want or expect us to finish outside the top two.  But equally i don't believe the value of our squad determines that we should finish in the top 2. 

 

 A top 2 finish will belong to the team that works the hardest, not that gets paid the most.

[Lillehamring]

29 minutes ago, StanSP said:

I had a lot of faith, yes! Because a lot of the players we have are better than a lot of other players in the division. Why is that so hard to comprehend? 

 

 

Because most of them were rubbish last season, a few of them were rejects who had fallen from grace and a few of them were completely unproven.

 

Nothing at the start of the season pointed to us being on track to be top of the league with 80% of the season gone and on track to break the league points record - if you genuinely saw that coming, i take my hat off to you and ask you to kindly share your choice of lottery numbers.

 

[Lillehamring]

19 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

That's absolute rubbish. If we ended up on 97 points and missed out it'll be because we'd have amassed just 19 points from our final 14 games which would be atrocious. That's a 1/3 of the season - the home straight and we'd have ballsed it up once again.

 

I'm sick of fans trying to excuse when our club throw away glorious opportunities.

 

So getting the 11th highest points total in the history of the EFL* would be a disgrace because we happened to have a great start, a solid middle, and a disappointing end, rather than accumulating points at a regular and even pace?

 

If we get 97 points and come third it will mean that the two teams above us would have had two of the top 10 highest points tallies in EFL history - and you'd be fuming over missed opportunities.

 

Have some humility and accept that this was never going to be a cakewalk, that swings like this happen and not simply because we are atrocious (which we certainly aren't and certainly wouldn't be even if we 'only' come third on 97 føkking points.)

 

 

* https://www.statista.com/statistics/1427151/efl-championship-most-ever-points/

[Dan LCFC]

This rhetoric about taking 6th would've been ridiculous back then. Imagine if we saw Leeds or Southampton fans saying that, we'd piss ourselves

Edited 20 March by Dan LCFC

[Lillehamring]

24 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Firstly I don’t know why you keep using last year’s table as some comparable - an average of the previous last ten seasons would be better. 

 

6th place is poor for a club of Leicester City’s current standing. Particularly in the context, 69 points for 6th last season was a 10 season low for 6th place. 
 

Our 2024 table positioning is 8th. The point about last years table is irrelevant and tells us nothing. 

 

Oh FFS - it was just the easiest thing to find, it was an off hand reply to a strange and unfair accusation - i honestly wish i hadn't bothered, the mentality of posters on here beggars belief.

[Ric Flair]

5 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

So getting the 11th highest points total in the history of the EFL* would be a disgrace because we happened to have a great start, a solid middle, and a disappointing end, rather than accumulating points at a regular and even pace?

 

If we get 97 points and come third it will mean that the two teams above us would have had two of the top 10 highest points tallies in EFL history - and you'd be fuming over missed opportunities.

 

Have some humility and accept that this was never going to be a cakewalk, that swings like this happen and not simply because we are atrocious (which we certainly aren't and certainly wouldn't be even if we 'only' come third on 97 føkking points.)

 

 

* https://www.statista.com/statistics/1427151/efl-championship-most-ever-points/

Yes it really would, precisely for the reasons you have tried to give. You don't waste opportunities like this. 19 points from 14 games after the best ever start would be extremely poor. Its as simple as that, the context to which it came about makes it so. 

 

This is about failing to succeed from a position of near certainty and power, this isn't things being equal. 1.35 points ppg for the final third of the season would be an absolute disgrace.

 

 

[FOXSE]

9 hours ago, Collymore said:

This thread is unnecessarily hot. 

It should be renamed 'Sydney Sweeney' 😄 

[Col city fan]

I’m thinking about chucking a tenner on City NOT getting top two. Reason being I’m the worlds worst football gambler, so if I put this bet on, we’ll be fine! 😂

Does anyone know the odds at present?

[adejo92]

Wherever we finish this season, there's some glaring issues that won't get fixed in time for next season.

 

Worrying times ahead.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

11 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

You think we wanted to still have all the dead wood? To be taking players on Loan?

If that's not makeshift i don't know what is - he's not had three years and an unlimited budget to assemble players like Casadei and Coady

So I see you've decided to die on this hill, I cannot beleive you're doubling down on this. 

 

The examples you've given there are a (only recently) Ex England international, signed for a pretty significant fee, and a kid who was the top scorer at the under 21 Euros that he'd just got back from. Hardly shopping in the bargain bin were we. 

 

Aside from that how you can possibly sit there with a straight face and claim that a squad including Vardy, KDH, Winks, Ndidi, Ricardo, Coady, Justin, Faes and Iheanacho at Championship level is "makehsift" is truly unbeleivable. Even if I go down a tier players like Vestergaard, Doyle, Souttar, Hamza, Daka, Praet, Cannon etc would all be very useful assets to most in this league. And that's without talking about the relatively unknowns in Mavididi, Fatawu and Hermansen who have worked out. One of them has a purchase clause for €17m, what a makeshift squad this is. 

 

If you think we're makeshift now, I think you're in for a big shock if we don't get promoted.