Harry Winks

[MattFox]

Don’t want to derail this thread but drinkwater was clearly a level ahead of both James and Winks at his peak 

 

He just didn’t hold that level for more than 2/3 seasons for various reasons

 

 

 

[westernpark]

31 minutes ago, AjcW said:

 what a horrific shout. 

Matty was an injury away from being a future England call up, he was going to go on to be an absolute star and would have kept DD out long term. DD ended up having a small amount of the success James would of had, sad thing is James wouldn't have wasted that chance...

It was hyperbole in response to the hyperbole. But unfortunately I think you’re being serious. Matty James for England? Was he going to carry the water bottles onto the pitch? Danny Drinkwater might have had his obvious faults but he was twice the footballer of James when both were playing at their best. Matty James was lucky to get injured because he’d have been unlikely to of gotten a four year deal otherwise, in 2018. We certainly wouldn’t have won the league.

[HankMarvin]

4 hours ago, funkyrobot said:

Picking on the wrong guy in Winks mate. He’s not the problem in our squad.  Btw - There’s no player in our team that will have great point stats as we haven’t got many points! 

Oh right, clearly you didn’t read what was previously highlighted. 
Let’s not include Ndidi that plays in midfield then when he has started 15  we have got 14 points 

Edited 13 January by HankMarvin

[Tommy G]

16 hours ago, funkyrobot said:

He’s definitely premier league quality. He’s an England international and is outstanding on the half turn. He made a couple of mistakes yesterday but he’s definitely not the problem. The style of footballl we play and specifically his role to break through the press is fraught with risk, and despite playing in a struggling side he’s very good at it. 

He isn't. He last played for England 5 years ago.

 

Similar to saying Patrick Bamfords an England international because he played a few times years ago!

[Sol thewall Bamba]

2 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

He isn't. He last played for England 5 years ago.

 

Similar to saying Patrick Bamfords an England international because he played a few times years ago!

James Justin is an England international!

[Tommy G]

Just now, Sol thewall Bamba said:

James Justin is an England international!

Better example actually

[bovril]

On 11/01/2025 at 18:33, Finnegan said:

Some of our fans are legit trash. 

 

Unsure whether to like this post or not because I agree with the sentiment but disappointed with the Americanisms 

[funkyrobot]

9 hours ago, Tommy G said:

He isn't. He last played for England 5 years ago.

 

Similar to saying Patrick Bamfords an England international because he played a few times years ago!

He has played for England 10 times. He is an international footballer. You can’t disregard a fact just because it contradicts your narrative. 

[funkyrobot]

10 hours ago, HankMarvin said:

Oh right, clearly you didn’t read what was previously highlighted. 
Let’s not include Ndidi that plays in midfield then when he has started 15  we have got 14 points 

Where have I said let’s not include Ndidi? I’ve just said Winks is not the problem in our squad. Which he isn’t. It’s a positive that potentially when they are all fit (and Ndidi often isn’t) we have 3 good central number 6 position midfielders than can rotate starts in Winks, Ndidi and Soumare. 

[HankMarvin]

40 minutes ago, funkyrobot said:

Where have I said let’s not include Ndidi? I’ve just said Winks is not the problem in our squad. Which he isn’t. It’s a positive that potentially when they are all fit (and Ndidi often isn’t) we have 3 good central number 6 position midfielders than can rotate starts in Winks, Ndidi and Soumare. 

You said Btw - There’s no player in our team that will have great point stats as we haven’t got many points!”

Id say 14 points from 15 games is a good points stat 

100 percent of our points from the 14 games he has started.

[Wolfox]

14 hours ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

James Justin is an England international!

 

14 hours ago, Tommy G said:

Better example actually

He would had a really good chance of starting for England in that following tournament…. He was mustard before getting the injury…

 

I’m still holding on for him to turn a corner, but he’s been objectively awful this year…. It makes me really sad

Edited 14 January by Wolfox

[Tom12345]

Not sure of some of the adverse comments on him here. We were lucky to get him last season in the Championship and given the state of our squad we should be thankful he is still here. He seems to be a guy who cares (although I would say he overstepped the line when allegedly he helped to get Cooper sacked), enjoys being at the Club and wants the club to do well. Players with that emotional attachment are special.

 

I am sure he will turn the corner.

[Bptiger]

14 hours ago, HankMarvin said:

Oh right, clearly you didn’t read what was previously highlighted. 
Let’s not include Ndidi that plays in midfield then when he has started 15  we have got 14 points 

We have not looked good since Ndidi has been out , he is way better than people give him credit for 

[Tommy G]

10 hours ago, funkyrobot said:

He has played for England 10 times. He is an international footballer. You can’t disregard a fact just because it contradicts your narrative. 

He isn't a current international footballer. 

 

I haven't got a narrative I don't really think Winks is the biggest problem in our squad, just pointing out he isnt an international footballer.

 

Was David Nugent an England international when he played for us then? Of course he wasn't, same principle.

[daddylonglegs]

6 hours ago, Tom12345 said:

Not sure of some of the adverse comments on him here. We were lucky to get him last season in the Championship and given the state of our squad we should be thankful he is still here. He seems to be a guy who cares (although I would say he overstepped the line when allegedly he helped to get Cooper sacked), enjoys being at the Club and wants the club to do well. Players with that emotional attachment are special.

 

I am sure he will turn the corner.

I agree regarding the adverse comments. He's not half as bad as people are making him out to be, however I feel his ceiling is a lot higher than we currently are getting. 

 

In terms of being lucky to have him last year... hmmm. We were paying him £90,000 a week in the championship. We essentially did a player swap with Spurs via Maddison + £30m cash. Not sure there's much good luck on our account there.  

[funkyrobot]

21 hours ago, Tommy G said:

He isn't a current international footballer. 

 

I haven't got a narrative I don't really think Winks is the biggest problem in our squad, just pointing out he isnt an international footballer.

 

Was David Nugent an England international when he played for us then? Of course he wasn't, same principle.

Nuge played once, JJ played once. Not the same principle. Winks played 10 times. When I say an international footballer I’m saying he has been good enough to represent his country. Winks has demonstrated that over an extended period of time. He’s no mug, he’s more than capable of playing at Premier league level and he’s one of our better players. That’s a fact. 

[JonesLCFC]

On 13/01/2025 at 08:55, westernpark said:

Matty James was a poor man’s Oliver Skipp. 

If you didn’t rate Matty James before the injury, then I don’t know what to say to you…

[Jobyfox]

6 minutes ago, JonesLCFC said:

If you didn’t rate Matty James before the injury, then I don’t know what to say to you…

Matty James was a good Championship player, but also very overrated by a significant amount of our fan base. 
 

When you dig for evidence most people will say: “…. he kept Drinkwater out of the team when we got promoted…”.  If you delve a little deeper you will see that he did, indeed, play more games than Drinkwater that season. The vast majority of those games we were not competitively in. The most effective being the last ten games, during which James got injured and didn’t play in half of them. This suggests that he wasn’t a critical player in our team and the next season would also be testament to that. 
 

Matty James should be remembered well as a player who played a part in getting us back to the Premier League, but there is no evidence, before or after injury, to suggest he was ever PL standard 
 

 

[tinpot_fox]

On 14/01/2025 at 03:14, Bptiger said:

We have not looked good since Ndidi has been out , he is way better than people give him credit for 

This may be the Winks thread, but I think most fans would goes teary eyed over Ndidi’s finishing compared to other players in recent games.

[JonesLCFC]

14 minutes ago, Jobyfox said:

Matty James was a good Championship player, but also very overrated by a significant amount of our fan base. 
 

When you dig for evidence most people will say: “…. he kept Drinkwater out of the team when we got promoted…”.  If you delve a little deeper you will see that he did, indeed, play more games than Drinkwater that season. The vast majority of those games we were not competitively in. The most effective being the last ten games, during which James got injured and didn’t play in half of them. This suggests that he wasn’t a critical player in our team and the next season would also be testament to that. 
 

Matty James should be remembered well as a player who played a part in getting us back to the Premier League, but there is no evidence, before or after injury, to suggest he was ever PL standard 
 

 

Overrated by the fans? He didn’t even have a song! 😂

[inckley fox]

18 minutes ago, Jobyfox said:

Matty James was a good Championship player, but also very overrated by a significant amount of our fan base. 
 

When you dig for evidence most people will say: “…. he kept Drinkwater out of the team when we got promoted…”.  If you delve a little deeper you will see that he did, indeed, play more games than Drinkwater that season. The vast majority of those games we were not competitively in. The most effective being the last ten games, during which James got injured and didn’t play in half of them. This suggests that he wasn’t a critical player in our team and the next season would also be testament to that. 
 

Matty James should be remembered well as a player who played a part in getting us back to the Premier League, but there is no evidence, before or after injury, to suggest he was ever PL standard 
 

 

My memory might be hazy, but I think the midfield was often James and Drinkwater in the promotion season, and that it was - especially in the second half of the campaign - typically King who he'd vie with for the shirt. It was in the 'Great Escape' season that he tended to be ahead of both of them, until the injury.

 

As for whether there was ever any indication that he was PL standard: well, three points spring to mind.

 

Firstly, that your form in the second tier can also indicate whether or not you're good enough for the Premier. The only nice things we've got to say about Winks and even Ricardo, in recent years, are based on how good they looked at that level. When he was in the second tier, he was often preferred to players who later featured regularly in a title-winning side, so that in itself is something of an indication, even if it's a not-entirely-reliable one.

 

Secondly, he was pretty decent in the 'Great Escape' season. Better than Drinkwater, who we know was PL standard, and King. We were well into our end-of-season run when he got injured, and the fans were widely impressed by how he'd been getting along.

 

Thirdly, his injury problems were among the worst we've seen in the past few decades at the club, and it was no surprise that he was half the player he had been afterwards. Even so, he put in some fine performances (specifically one against Chelsea, if I recall) which earned him a new contract, and reminded us of just how good he could have been.

 

Further injuries intervened, he dropped off even more, and in the end the new contract seemed a bad idea with the benefit of hindsight. But I reckon it's a tad unfair to say there was never a suggestion that James was PL level when you're talking about someone was was, at the time, a young player who'd been in a great second tier side and who'd done well in a mid-season campaign - often preferred to two eventual PL-winners - and who still occasionally looked the part at that level after a series of crippling injuries.

[Jobyfox]

3 minutes ago, inckley fox said:

My memory might be hazy, but I think the midfield was often James and Drinkwater in the promotion season, and that it was - especially in the second half of the campaign - typically King who he'd vie with for the shirt. It was in the 'Great Escape' season that he tended to be ahead of both of them, until the injury.

 

As for whether there was ever any indication that he was PL standard: well, three points spring to mind.

 

Firstly, that your form in the second tier can also indicate whether or not you're good enough for the Premier. The only nice things we've got to say about Winks and even Ricardo, in recent years, are based on how good they looked at that level. When he was in the second tier, he was often preferred to players who later featured regularly in a title-winning side, so that in itself is something of an indication, even if it's a not-entirely-reliable one.

 

Secondly, he was pretty decent in the 'Great Escape' season. Better than Drinkwater, who we know was PL standard, and King. We were well into our end-of-season run when he got injured, and the fans were widely impressed by how he'd been getting along.

 

Thirdly, his injury problems were among the worst we've seen in the past few decades at the club, and it was no surprise that he was half the player he had been afterwards. Even so, he put in some fine performances (specifically one against Chelsea, if I recall) which earned him a new contract, and reminded us of just how good he could have been.

 

Further injuries intervened, he dropped off even more, and in the end the new contract seemed a bad idea with the benefit of hindsight. But I reckon it's a tad unfair to say there was never a suggestion that James was PL level when you're talking about someone was was, at the time, a young player who'd been in a great second tier side and who'd done well in a mid-season campaign - often preferred to two eventual PL-winners - and who still occasionally looked the part at that level after a series of crippling injuries.

It’s all about opinions isn’t it? I doubt I’m going to change the opinion of someone who rated him and they won’t change mine. That’s football sometimes.

 

It’s just some players are rated and I struggle to see the evidence. James was one of those players where people would often use the line (like above): “… well if you can’t see it…”. As if you needed a superior football knowledge to appreciate the nuances of his performance. A lot of people used the same sort of lines about Dennis Praet until a general consensus developed that, no, he was in fact bang average. 
 

I liked James and appreciate his efforts in the Championship. I just think that was his ceiling and would have been proven right if injury hadn’t curtailed his career. Players are often overrated when they are absent from a team.

 

That’s might view. I respect the opinions of some others, but still think they’re wrong! 😀

[HarryDee8]

Holds onto ball bit to long and playing hospital passes

[lcfcsnow]

Sign Southampton defenders used to losing 9-0, get relegated with a shit defence

Sign out of favour Spurs midfielders used to being bottlejobs, become bottlejobs with a shit defence

[Leicester_Loyal]

2 minutes ago, lcfcsnow said:

Sign Southampton defenders used to losing 9-0, get relegated with a shit defence

Sign out of favour Spurs midfielders used to being bottlejobs, become bottlejobs with a shit defence

Who knew!!