Southampton (a) Pre Match Thread

[ClaphamFox]

14 minutes ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

Not been selected. Too much flair for Chris Hughton's liking.

 

 

He's with the squad and could feature this evening:

 

https://twitter.com/LCFC/status/1699722677114556726?s=20

Edited 7 September 2023 by ClaphamFox

[FoxinNotts]

15 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

He's with the squad and could feature this evening:

 

https://twitter.com/LCFC/status/1699722677114556726?s=20

There must be two of him!!!! Sign up the other one, so we can have one on each wing!!

[ClaphamFox]

Just now, FoxinNotts said:

There must be two of him!!!! Sign up the other one, so we can have one on each wing!!

Apparently he wasn't called up initially but has been since because of an injury.

[Lesta Legend]

24 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

He's with the squad and could feature this evening:

 

https://twitter.com/LCFC/status/1699722677114556726?s=20

Danny Ward in contention, the LCFC admin with the banter.

[Pita]

This game will tell us where we are. Got a lot of work to do over the next couple of weeks. As Hull was very poor performance need to show we are going in the correct direction 

[filbertway]

2 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

 

 

Almost all of our first team players still around at Seagrave. Coady can be seen in this video, getting involved in Rondos with the team!

 

This is really good news. The team NEEDS a few more weeks to build up fluency and get the tactical idea. Mavididi, Winks, Ricardo, Yunus, KDH, Fatawu, Coady, McAteer, Vestergaard all around from these clips.

 

 

Will be interesting to see how Coady gets on cus every single metric id be interested in for centre backs hes bottom of class

 

People will give him so much more leeway than other players as he's a sound guy as well

 

Really interested to see what everyone sees in him cus I have no idea what it is other than the fact hes not actually scared of talking on the pitch haha

 

[StriderHiryu]

1 minute ago, filbertway said:

Will be interesting to see how Coady gets on cus every single metric id be interested in for centre backs hes bottom of class

 

People will give him so much more leeway than other players as he's a sound guy as well

 

Really interested to see what everyone sees in him cus I have no idea what it is other than the fact hes not actually scared of talking on the pitch haha

 

Yeah he was not wanted by Wolves or Everton, so I think people may have overly high opinions on his playing ability. But at this level he could still be very good.

 

A lot of us had reservations around Harry Winks, but he's probably our best player. This gives me some confidence that Coady will be a good purchase too.

[filbertway]

Just now, StriderHiryu said:

Yeah he was not wanted by Wolves or Everton, so I think people may have overly high opinions on his playing ability. But at this level he could still be very good.

 

A lot of us had reservations around Harry Winks, but he's probably our best player. This gives me some confidence that Coady will be a good purchase too.

I came round to winks after seeing highlights and his strengths.

 

Ive been scouring high and low for Coadys positives and most of them seem to be he was part of a 10 man defence that didn't concede many goals

 

I genuinely think people will be crying for Vesty back before Xmas haha.

 

This season is so fun as there are so many unknowns in the mix. Its not easy to predict what will happen at all 

[pmcla26]

4 minutes ago, filbertway said:

This season is so fun as there are so many unknowns in the mix. Its not easy to predict what will happen at all 

I'm finding it hard to enjoy so far. All the wins, barring Coventry due to the circumstances of it being the unknown and the KDH late show, I haven't felt really "up" after, as I expected them to be wins. Then the low after losing against Hull felt a lot lower than the highs of our wins so far did, if that makes sense? 

I think it's just how the last 10 years have changed the mindset subconsciously! 

 

I am enjoying watching how Maresca shapes this team from a tactical point of view, though. 

[Fox92]

2 hours ago, jmono84 said:

Looking at the stats we’ve actually been unlucky with goals we have conceded.

 

Out Xg against us is 5.0 but we’ve conceded 4 goals. Compared to Hull and Plymouth who’s Xg 9.5 and 9.2 and conceded 6 and 5 goals.

 

We’re towards the bottom of Xg against and easily in the bottom half for shots/shots on target against.

 

Other than the Coventry corner the goals were either well executed goals or a deflected effort

I'm not talking about goals we've conceded though, I'm talking about chances created against us. And my point is that Southampton have more quality than those teams we've already faced.

 

Lets not forget Cov missed at least one one on one, hit the bar, and Cardiff missed a one on one too.

 

I appreciate the Cardiff goal was really well taken a 9 times out of 10 that doesn't go in if it isn't for a player such as Ramsey. The Hull and Rotherham goals were both bad defending on our part so I wouldn't call them "unlucky".

[Lillehamring]

2 hours ago, Gamble92 said:

Yeah I'm really baffled why there isn't a plan B involving using wing backs/full backs. The fact that we don't change shape surely allows the opposition to know they can stick to their shape and like Hull just rely on our questionable finishing. 

 

Just because it's such a fluid style, I don't see why the formation has to be as rigid as it is. 

it really isn't. we had one game where we've failed to convert our chances, but 5 out of 6 games where we've scored 2 goals.  That's a standard of finishing that will get you 72 goals over a season - only three teams scored more goals than that last season.

Granted, right now, we're not scoring for fun, but we're scoring enough to mean that we'll have to start conceding twice as many as we currently are before it becomes an issue,.

 

[Lillehamring]

29 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

I'm not talking about goals we've conceded though, I'm talking about chances created against us. And my point is that Southampton have more quality than those teams we've already faced.

 

Lets not forget Cov missed at least one one on one, hit the bar, and Cardiff missed a one on one too.

 

I appreciate the Cardiff goal was really well taken a 9 times out of 10 that doesn't go in if it isn't for a player such as Ramsey. The Hull and Rotherham goals were both bad defending on our part so I wouldn't call them "unlucky".

We have the 6th lowest xGA, 5.0 for the season, so the chances created against us are minimal - effectively we're expected to concede just 1 goal per game on average.

Of the teams southampton have faced, all but sunderland are leakier than we are.

 

But it's fair to say that as an attacking force, southampton are right up there - so it's going to come down to our solid defence against their flowing attack. and our average attack against their below average defence

[jmono84]

27 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

I'm not talking about goals we've conceded though, I'm talking about chances created against us. And my point is that Southampton have more quality than those teams we've already faced.

 

Lets not forget Cov missed at least one one on one, hit the bar, and Cardiff missed a one on one too.

 

I appreciate the Cardiff goal was really well taken a 9 times out of 10 that doesn't go in if it isn't for a player such as Ramsey. The Hull and Rotherham goals were both bad defending on our part so I wouldn't call them "unlucky".

That’s 5.0 Xg in all the games we’ve played soo far. Which is joint 5th lowest in the league.

 

Barring Cov where they created some break away tight angled chances (where our keeper made two great saves) we really have limited teams to not many chances at all.

 

For me you’re not going to stop every cross into the box or win every header and the Rotherham goal was a glancing header from a player who just managed to get in front of Doyle and striker managed to get the perfect connection on the ball to put it in the bottom corner, that chance would have been easier to miss or be saved than score.

 

The Hull goal was soft because I felt Vester could have made himself bigger to block the weakly hit shot but it was very unlucky for us it deflected like that right into the bottom corner.

 

I don’t remember the Cardiff 1v1 unless you meant the header chance their striker had?

[Gamble92]

45 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

it really isn't. we had one game where we've failed to convert our chances, but 5 out of 6 games where we've scored 2 goals.  That's a standard of finishing that will get you 72 goals over a season - only three teams scored more goals than that last season.

Granted, right now, we're not scoring for fun, but we're scoring enough to mean that we'll have to start conceding twice as many as we currently are before it becomes an issue,.

 

Okay questionable chance creation would have been a better way of putting it. The goals we have scored have come from a low xG and although I've said I don't like relying on xG I think it is something to refer to when looking at our tactical set up. We all predicted a game like Hull was coming. The only reason we all predicted it is because the goals we have scored have almost all been goals from individual bits of quality. You can't rely on that every week. 

 

I'd argue only Mcateer's first goal at Rotherham and Casadei's against Cardiff are chances you'd expect converting. The rest haven't been and that will always catch up with you if you continually rely on that to dig you out.

[StriderHiryu]

4 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

It is worth noting that we have reduced the amounts of attempted shoots against each game:

cov: 20

hud: 13

car: 10

rot: 8

hull: 7

 

Very very interesting. Russell Martin likes to play similar principles to Maresca; maintain possession and hold onto the ball for long periods to pick passes through the spaces when the time is right. But his fullbacks often make the most passes, whereas Harry Winks makes the most for us. Over time Martin will start pushing more and more players forwards, inverting both fullbacks and them even pushing a CB on. But his problem at all his teams is they give away a lot of chances for the opposition because if they lose the ball and can’t regain it quickly there are massive holes everywhere. 
 

Why is this relevant? Because it shows that Enzo is trying to setup a stable base first. I remember another certain Italian manager focusing on the same thing, even offering Pizza for a clean sheet. There must be something in having a good defence and winning things eh?

 

Stats like this we should be following closely. I’d hope that game by game we get better defensively and offensively. 

[StriderHiryu]

5 hours ago, pmcla26 said:

14 caps, one goal

At 19 years old?!

 

Blimey how did we sign him?! Scouts at Sporting said he was one of the most exciting talents in Africa for a while. Crazy we’ve got him. People forget how raw Salah looked at Basel and then Chelsea. He had the pace, he had great shooting power, but made terrible decisions. I expect Fatawu to be massively inconsistent for a few years but his ceiling is very high. Very exciting player. 

[Dandy king]

3 hours ago, filbertway said:

I came round to winks after seeing highlights and his strengths.

 

Ive been scouring high and low for Coadys positives and most of them seem to be he was part of a 10 man defence that didn't concede many goals

 

I genuinely think people will be crying for Vesty back before Xmas haha.

 

This season is so fun as there are so many unknowns in the mix. Its not easy to predict what will happen at all 

There seems to be alot of stuff written and on podcasts about what a great player to have signed even if he's not playing because of his good influence around the place . I'm sure there's a bit of truth to that but the proof is in the pudding and I'll reserve judgement until he plays - of course any player who pulls in the shirt I want to do well - but some of the stuff that's been written before he's even played a proper match seems a bit over the top 

[CountesthorpeFox1]

51 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

At 19 years old?!

 

Blimey how did we sign him?! Scouts at Sporting said he was one of the most exciting talents in Africa for a while. Crazy we’ve got him. People forget how raw Salah looked at Basel and then Chelsea. He had the pace, he had great shooting power, but made terrible decisions. I expect Fatawu to be massively inconsistent for a few years but his ceiling is very high. Very exciting player. 

Unpopular opinion from me but I still think his decision making is atrocious. 
 

He has all the attributes to be world class but that lets him down. He’d frustrate the hell out of me if I was his manager even more so because of his ability. He just seems to care more about individual accolades than the team.

 

I always said I’d pick Mane over him any day of the week (granted he’s not as good as he was now) 

 

loads about Southampton V Leicester in my statement.

[jerry]

3 hours ago, pmcla26 said:

I'm finding it hard to enjoy so far. All the wins, barring Coventry due to the circumstances of it being the unknown and the KDH late show, I haven't felt really "up" after, as I expected them to be wins. Then the low after losing against Hull felt a lot lower than the highs of our wins so far did, if that makes sense? 

I think it's just how the last 10 years have changed the mindset subconsciously! 

 

I am enjoying watching how Maresca shapes this team from a tactical point of view, though. 

Not enjoying watching Maresca tactics but interesting to see how it plays out.

[Lillehamring]

1 hour ago, Gamble92 said:

Okay questionable chance creation would have been a better way of putting it. The goals we have scored have come from a low xG and although I've said I don't like relying on xG I think it is something to refer to when looking at our tactical set up. We all predicted a game like Hull was coming. The only reason we all predicted it is because the goals we have scored have almost all been goals from individual bits of quality. You can't rely on that every week. 

 

I'd argue only Mcateer's first goal at Rotherham and Casadei's against Cardiff are chances you'd expect converting. The rest haven't been and that will always catch up with you if you continually rely on that to dig you out.

But it's all relative isn't it - if we are considering it from an xG/xGA perspective, our xG is 6.1 and our xGA is 5.0, so we are +1.1 which is adequate if unspectacular - essentially we're playing tight games and coming out just ahead - classic 1-0, 2-1 scenarios.

At this stage of the season, that shouldn't be a concern, in fact, given how few 1 goal games we came out on top in last year, it's actually quite a remarkable turn around and shows that, if nothing else, we're fighting in games again.

 

 

[Lillehamring]

18 minutes ago, Dandy king said:

There seems to be alot of stuff written and on podcasts about what a great player to have signed even if he's not playing because of his good influence around the place . I'm sure there's a bit of truth to that but the proof is in the pudding and I'll reserve judgement until he plays - of course any player who pulls in the shirt I want to do well - but some of the stuff that's been written before he's even played a proper match seems a bit over the top 

Also worth considering that Coady has experience playing at this level and also against strikers and teams exponentially better than he'll face this season.

[Gamble92]

8 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

But it's all relative isn't it - if we are considering it from an xG/xGA perspective, our xG is 6.1 and our xGA is 5.0, so we are +1.1 which is adequate if unspectacular - essentially we're playing tight games and coming out just ahead - classic 1-0, 2-1 scenarios.

At this stage of the season, that shouldn't be a concern, in fact, given how few 1 goal games we came out on top in last year, it's actually quite a remarkable turn around and shows that, if nothing else, we're fighting in games again.

 

 

I feel like games against Cardiff, Huddersfield and Rotherham shouldn't have been tight and the Coventry game we were way too open. I get its early and implementing tactics etc but these players in the main are a class above this level and they haven't been playing like it. 

 

The fight is definitely back though you're right. The bar couldn't get any lower though after the shit served up by last year's cowards. 

[weller54]

2 minutes ago, Gamble92 said:

I feel like games against Cardiff, Huddersfield and Rotherham shouldn't have been tight and the Coventry game we were way too open. I get its early and implementing tactics etc but these players in the main are a class above this level and they haven't been playing like it. 

 

The fight is definitely back though you're right. The bar couldn't get any lower though after the shit served up by last year's cowards. 

Yellowbelly Tielemans!!! 

[StriderHiryu]

35 minutes ago, CountesthorpeFox1 said:

Unpopular opinion from me but I still think his decision making is atrocious. 
 

He has all the attributes to be world class but that lets him down. He’d frustrate the hell out of me if I was his manager even more so because of his ability. He just seems to care more about individual accolades than the team.

 

I always said I’d pick Mane over him any day of the week (granted he’s not as good as he was now) 

 

loads about Southampton V Leicester in my statement.

I respect that opinion and can totally see where you are coming from. He definitely is a selfish player, but the amount of goals he has scored in the Premier League is ridiculous, plus he's won the European Cup. But I know what you mean, why has he only got top 3 for Balon d'Or once, and never won it? Well maybe the answer there is a certain Lionel Messi, but for example Robert Lewandoski (who was robbed because of Covid) and Karim Benzema are better than Salah but not a one of a kind GOAT like Messi or Ronaldo and one of those reasons is their decision making.

 

But all that said, I would have been pretty happy to be frustrated by Mo Salah on a weekly basis at the King Power. On these very forums people used to accuse Mahrez of trying to do too much and being selfish on a weekly basis. Sometimes they were even right, but on many occasions he was simply sensational to watch. Harvey Barnes with his 13 goals actually bettered Mahrez's second best goal season last time round, but even though we were fond of Barnes, he did not have the X-Factor that Riyad did. That's why everyone is already so excited about Fatawu, and why they wanted to get behind Tete when he was here. Riyad Mahrez at his peak was a joy to watch. I used to sit in a wicked part of the stadium during 15/16 and got to see him at least one half a game pretty close by and wow, what a player he was. James Maddison also very good, Ricardo has had great moments, but I love those mecurial wingers!

[CountesthorpeFox1]

17 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

I respect that opinion and can totally see where you are coming from. He definitely is a selfish player, but the amount of goals he has scored in the Premier League is ridiculous, plus he's won the European Cup. But I know what you mean, why has he only got top 3 for Balon d'Or once, and never won it? Well maybe the answer there is a certain Lionel Messi, but for example Robert Lewandoski (who was robbed because of Covid) and Karim Benzema are better than Salah but not a one of a kind GOAT like Messi or Ronaldo and one of those reasons is their decision making.

 

But all that said, I would have been pretty happy to be frustrated by Mo Salah on a weekly basis at the King Power. On these very forums people used to accuse Mahrez of trying to do too much and being selfish on a weekly basis. Sometimes they were even right, but on many occasions he was simply sensational to watch. Harvey Barnes with his 13 goals actually bettered Mahrez's second best goal season last time round, but even though we were fond of Barnes, he did not have the X-Factor that Riyad did. That's why everyone is already so excited about Fatawu, and why they wanted to get behind Tete when he was here. Riyad Mahrez at his peak was a joy to watch. I used to sit in a wicked part of the stadium during 15/16 and got to see him at least one half a game pretty close by and wow, what a player he was. James Maddison also very good, Ricardo has had great moments, but I love those mecurial wingers!

I appreciate Salahs quality and by no means am I saying he’s a bad player. Like you say, you simply don’t hit them figures without being a brilliant footballer. He’s just not the kind of player I like. That’s purely personal though. I’m not talking about city because we all know even at our best he walks into our teams and we’d all love him. 
 

I never really saw it with Riyad, I always just thought he was magic and never really felt he was greedy. Maybe I had my city shaded glasses on though. It’s easier to dislike players who don’t play for us though isn’t it so maybe I’d be like that with salah if he ever played for us (which obviously I’d always have taken)