"It didn't work for Burnley!" - A Pre-Season Optimistic Bus Day Trip (Rant)

[Finnegan]

This is going to be a bit ranty, so TLDR: Burnley are shit (sorry not sorry, dsr-burnley)

 

 

There's a lot of negativity flying around FoxesTalk at the moment and a lot of it is fairly justified. For a start, we might be about to lose our manager, for seconds we might not have any money to reinforce and what little we do spend, there's a good chance it'll be on cheap youngsters and free transfers.

 

But one thing doing my head in really does need addressing because it's one piece of negativity we've been hearing all year from some quarters: comparisons to fvcking Burnley. All the time it's "Burnley were great in the Championship but look at them now getting smashed!" and "this style of play just won't work in the Premier League!" and other such waffle. 

 

I made a throw-away point in a thread a couple of weeks ago that Burnley probably didn't even have a team in the Premier League good enough for this season's Championship but I really do just want to take a moment to hammer home how vastly, vastly better equipped we are, right now, without signing anybody new, than Vincent Kompany's charity bin collection of "talent." Burnley lost a significant number of the players that got them promoted and were forced to start again with a lot of recruits. From the Championship: Connor Roberts, 43 games, left. Ian Maatsen, 39 games, left. Harwood-Bellis, 32 games, left. Star man Nathan Tella, 39 games, left. In the end, the average age of the Burnley regular 11 at the start of their Prem season was just 22. Kids. Ours is currently 27.

 

Before this season began, only four players in Burnley's regular team had ever played Premier League football and only two of them had more than one Premier League campaign under their belt. By contrast, only three of ours have NEVER played in the Premier League and one of those - Stephy Mavididi - has played 116 games in Europe's top 5 leagues chalking up 32 goal contributions in the process. TOM CANNON has played more Premier League football than most of the Burnley side had before 23/24.

 

The average number of games played across Europe's top 5 leagues by Burnley players before this season started was 40. For Leicester it's 128.

 

With the exception of Mads Hermansen (who will imminently be capped for Denmark), Abdul Fatawu and Stephy Mavididi, every single member of Leicester's usual starting line-up is a senior capped international for one of FIFA's top 30 teams and that includes internationals for Belgium, Portugal, England and Denmark. There are a combined 133 caps for these nations in Leicester's standard starting line-up compared to 19 in Burnley's.

 

Wout Faes and Stephy Mavididi are the only Leicester starters to have never featured in major European club competitions with the entirety of the rest of the 11 that we had starting in the ****ing second tier being players to have played in the Champions League, Europa League and Conference League. Burnley have only Sander Berge, Jakub Bruun Larsen and Zeki Amdouni to have had any continental football and none of it was for Burnley because.. they're fvcking Burnley.

 

And all of this is just taking like-for-like starting elevens, it doesn't even begin to factor in the hundreds of games played by the likes of Conor Coady, Patson Daka or potential returners like Bouba Soumare (I know, I know.)

 

Now I know that games-played does not directly equal quality. Riyad Mahrez, Jamie Vardy, Danny Drinkwater, Wes Morgan and countless others had never played a game in the Premier League before we were promoted last time out. Prior Premier League experience is absolutely no guarantee of success, neither is having had exposure to the Champions League or a few caps for England or Portugal. But if you cannot look at the following line-ups and see that there is a vast, vast difference between our quality and theirs? I suspect you might be an ostrich.

 

 

 

 

Of course it didn't "work for Burnley." That Burnley team is absolute, 100% dogwater.

 

(I'm aware that Vestergaard, Vardy and Ndidi are all yet to extend their contracts. I'd be very surprised if at least 2 of the 3, if not all 3, aren't retained for the Premier League.)

 

[Fuchsocksblu]

t's just lazy comparisons because some people can't be bothered to look beyond 'dID wELl iN ChAmPioNsHiP. wOn'T in T'LeAgUe'.
 

[Chelmofox]

This shit has been doing my head in all year. I wonder how many people who constantly make the comparison even saw Burnley play this season. 

 

When you bring up that other styles of play have got teams relegated or very close to being relegated, you are then reminded that Burnley spent €100 mil.

 

As if just spending money is the barometer for success. 

 

Burnley spent €17m on 19 year James Trafford straight from Man City U21's (this has to be Man City's best ever work), who they ended up dropping before performances picked up. They spent nearly €18m on Amdouni, who scored 5 goals.

 

Maybe, Burnleys problem was that they spent that 100mil on shite, or players who weren't ready yet?

Edited 24 May 2024 by Chelmofox

[Fuchsocksblu]

The last time we were in the Premier League, we were relegated mainly because of our ancient and horrifically bad defence. 
Our attack was comfortably mid-table and scored much more than most of those who survived. Enzo has already proven that you don't need experience to succeed, yet people still bang on about wanting prem experience like a dead horse. It's WHO you get it and if they can be molded to what the manager wants. It could be a 24 year old CB who's in the Russian Premier League but if he can ping a ball and can track back then that's more than okay or a 18 year old academy product who has unlimited amount of potential that can challenge Fatawu. 
Burnley's recruitment policy didn't suit what they needed. As Chelmofox says spending money IS NOT a barometer for success. 

[moore_94]

They messed up big time with Trafford as well, he just wasn’t ready for the Prem yet

 

Their results improved once they brought Muric back in but it was too late

[Fuchsocksblu]

2 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

They messed up big time with Trafford as well, he just wasn’t ready for the Prem yet

 

Their results improved once they brought Muric back in but it was too late

The same Trafford that some Leicester fans were pining for before we signed Mads? 
 

[moore_94]

3 minutes ago, Fuchsocksblu said:

The same Trafford that some Leicester fans were pining for before we signed Mads? 
 

Yes, but he wouldn’t have been in the Prem with us last season and a season in the Championship would’ve been better for him so?

 

I think he would be a better player right now had he played a season in the Championship with us rather than that season he had with Burnley

 

But personally even though I wanted us to get Trafford I now really don’t care because we have Mads

Edited 24 May 2024 by moore_94

[Chelmofox]

Just now, Fuchsocksblu said:

The same Trafford that some Leicester fans were pining for before we signed Mads? 
 

Yes, but as we are seeing right now, most of us know fvk all. 

 

And to be fair, if he did come here it would have been in a Championship season,  and I expect that most on here thought the fee would have been about Mads level. What Man City got for him was criminal.

 

But your point is bang on. Burley overpaid for Trafford, we went for Mads. How about we let our club work out this summers recruitment rather than just harping on about Burnley. 

[Leicester_Loyal]

As if it's bothering you enough to make this thread

 

We're a better team than them currently, but a lot will depend on our signings.

 

A points deduction probably evens out the advantage we had over them though?

[Pliskin]

Completely agree. 

[AKCJ]

Can't pass out the back these days. Look at Burnley.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But make sure you don't look at literally every other club too.

[grobyfox1990]

2 hours ago, Fuchsocksblu said:

The last time we were in the Premier League, we were relegated mainly because of our ancient and horrifically bad defence. 
Our attack was comfortably mid-table and scored much more than most of those who survived. Enzo has already proven that you don't need experience to succeed, yet people still bang on about wanting prem experience like a dead horse. It's WHO you get it and if they can be molded to what the manager wants. It could be a 24 year old CB who's in the Russian Premier League but if he can ping a ball and can track back then that's more than okay or a 18 year old academy product who has unlimited amount of potential that can challenge Fatawu. 
Burnley's recruitment policy didn't suit what they needed. As Chelmofox says spending money IS NOT a barometer for success. 

Agree with this mainly, but Enzo has proven nothing yet, tempting fate to say he has 'succeeded.' Next year we begin to play competitive football again and I am relatively confident he will succeed at the level, but I am not taking it as a given.

[sbfox]

2 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Agree with this mainly, but Enzo has proven nothing yet, tempting fate to say he has 'succeeded.' Next year we begin to play competitive football again and I am relatively confident he will succeed at the level, but I am not taking it as a given.

Proven nothing... But won probably the most competitive league in Europe? 

[grobyfox1990]

13 minutes ago, sbfox said:

Proven nothing... But won probably the most competitive league in Europe? 

It’s clearly not the most competitive league in Europe if we won it without breaking sweat, going on holiday for two months and having JANNNNIIICK as our main man. His test will come in the PL against real football teams and players. I am confident he will be ok but not taking it as given 

[KingsX]

       Who else but Finnegan would have known that Marie Kondo is such a huge City fan ?

 

 

 

[Chrysalis]

Why do we have 3 of these threads now and during the season one anti enzo football thread got shut down?

[Foxmeister]

20 hours ago, Fuchsocksblu said:

The same Trafford that some Leicester fans were pining for before we signed Mads? 
 

I think we've all wanted to sign someone who turned out very ordinary, Nicky Maynard anyone?

[Jobyfox]

“Wow, you’re right. Burnley probably did better than expected. Get me Vincent Kompany on the phone”

 

Max Eberl

Bayern Munich DOF 

[Foxaholic ME]

On 24/05/2024 at 14:14, Finnegan said:

This is going to be a bit ranty, so TLDR: Burnley are shit (sorry not sorry, dsr-burnley)

 

 

There's a lot of negativity flying around FoxesTalk at the moment and a lot of it is fairly justified. For a start, we might be about to lose our manager, for seconds we might not have any money to reinforce and what little we do spend, there's a good chance it'll be on cheap youngsters and free transfers.

 

But one thing doing my head in really does need addressing because it's one piece of negativity we've been hearing all year from some quarters: comparisons to fvcking Burnley. All the time it's "Burnley were great in the Championship but look at them now getting smashed!" and "this style of play just won't work in the Premier League!" and other such waffle. 

 

I made a throw-away point in a thread a couple of weeks ago that Burnley probably didn't even have a team in the Premier League good enough for this season's Championship but I really do just want to take a moment to hammer home how vastly, vastly better equipped we are, right now, without signing anybody new, than Vincent Kompany's charity bin collection of "talent." Burnley lost a significant number of the players that got them promoted and were forced to start again with a lot of recruits. From the Championship: Connor Roberts, 43 games, left. Ian Maatsen, 39 games, left. Harwood-Bellis, 32 games, left. Star man Nathan Tella, 39 games, left. In the end, the average age of the Burnley regular 11 at the start of their Prem season was just 22. Kids. Ours is currently 27.

 

Before this season began, only four players in Burnley's regular team had ever played Premier League football and only two of them had more than one Premier League campaign under their belt. By contrast, only three of ours have NEVER played in the Premier League and one of those - Stephy Mavididi - has played 116 games in Europe's top 5 leagues chalking up 32 goal contributions in the process. TOM CANNON has played more Premier League football than most of the Burnley side had before 23/24.

 

The average number of games played across Europe's top 5 leagues by Burnley players before this season started was 40. For Leicester it's 128.

 

With the exception of Mads Hermansen (who will imminently be capped for Denmark), Abdul Fatawu and Stephy Mavididi, every single member of Leicester's usual starting line-up is a senior capped international for one of FIFA's top 30 teams and that includes internationals for Belgium, Portugal, England and Denmark. There are a combined 133 caps for these nations in Leicester's standard starting line-up compared to 19 in Burnley's.

 

Wout Faes and Stephy Mavididi are the only Leicester starters to have never featured in major European club competitions with the entirety of the rest of the 11 that we had starting in the ****ing second tier being players to have played in the Champions League, Europa League and Conference League. Burnley have only Sander Berge, Jakub Bruun Larsen and Zeki Amdouni to have had any continental football and none of it was for Burnley because.. they're fvcking Burnley.

 

And all of this is just taking like-for-like starting elevens, it doesn't even begin to factor in the hundreds of games played by the likes of Conor Coady, Patson Daka or potential returners like Bouba Soumare (I know, I know.)

 

Now I know that games-played does not directly equal quality. Riyad Mahrez, Jamie Vardy, Danny Drinkwater, Wes Morgan and countless others had never played a game in the Premier League before we were promoted last time out. Prior Premier League experience is absolutely no guarantee of success, neither is having had exposure to the Champions League or a few caps for England or Portugal. But if you cannot look at the following line-ups and see that there is a vast, vast difference between our quality and theirs? I suspect you might be an ostrich.

 

 

 

 

Of course it didn't "work for Burnley." That Burnley team is absolute, 100% dogwater.

 

(I'm aware that Vestergaard, Vardy and Ndidi are all yet to extend their contracts. I'd be very surprised if at least 2 of the 3, if not all 3, aren't retained for the Premier League.)

 

Although our points tally was good although less than Burnley we still lost a massive 10 games I  wont include Blackburn  and they lost 3. 

[Foxaholic ME]

On 24/05/2024 at 19:03, grobyfox1990 said:

It’s clearly not the most competitive league in Europe if we won it without breaking sweat, going on holiday for two months and having JANNNNIIICK as our main man. His test will come in the PL against real football teams and players. I am confident he will be ok but not taking it as given 

Agree  its reasonablly easy for most teams who come down  and  the 3 who came down and a team who couldnt  win DIV 1  and lost to Maidstone were the top 4.   You only have to look at the teams who went up last year  to know how competitive it is The results on the last day show how competitive it is   O 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Foxaholic ME]

Just now, Foxaholic ME said:

 

 

 

Just now, Foxaholic ME said:

Agree  its reasonablly easy for most teams who come down  and  the 3 who came down and a team who couldnt  win DIV 1  and lost to Maidstone were the top 4.   You only have to look at the teams who went up last year  to know how competitive it is The results on the last day show how competitive it is   O 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[It'sblueupnorth]

On 26/05/2024 at 14:14, Foxaholic ME said:

Although our points tally was good although less than Burnley we still lost a massive 10 games I  wont include Blackburn  and they lost 3. 

Why you not counting Blackburn the league are

[Foxaholic ME]

1 hour ago, It'sblueupnorth said:

Why you not counting Blackburn the league are

Most of the championship results  in the last game of the season were suspect  apart from Ipswich . I  have no brief for Birmingham but  considering they got  one of the few genuine results as Hull  could have  made play offs  it was criminal our not bothering sent them down   We  have done similar in  championship winning sea sons in Brighton   and although open to contradiction   much earlier Leyton Orient.  It  is noticeable  that 1. Nobody cared 2  When we won the Premier  real cause for celebration we comfortablly beat Everton 

[Mike Oxlong]

Is @Finnegan on gardening leave ?