Steve Cooper SACKED! OFFICIAL!

[coolhandfox]

Interestingly sounds like some of the older players like Vardy, Coady etc were behind Cooper, wonder if that's what they mean with mentions of the club needed to do better in their statements? 

 

Both managers where a poor pick, people can't defend either.

Edited 22 April by coolhandfox

[ozvaldo]

1 minute ago, coolhandfox said:

Interestingly sounds like some of the older players like Vardy, Coady etc were behind Cooper, wonder if that's what they mean with mentions of the club needed to do better in their statements? 

 

Both managers where a poor pick, people can't defend either.

Wasn’t Coady holding a sign up in a nightclub saying ‘we miss Enzo’? 

[coolhandfox]

Just now, ozvaldo said:

Wasn’t Coady holding a sign up in a nightclub saying ‘we miss Enzo’? 

That was winks I believe.

[Hales]

[HankMarvin]

5 minutes ago, Hales said:

What’s the excuse with RVN 

[orangecity23]

The first thing Cooper did was bang on about "experience" being the most important thing, then he asked for over the hill wasters like BdCR and Ayew and sidelined players like Fatawu, McAteer, Alves and Mavididi.

 

Is it any wonder that younger players didn't like him, when he made it obvious he'd go out of his way to avoid playing them? The older players would be keener, as their places in the team were basically guaranteed.

[Gamble92]

16 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

Interestingly sounds like some of the older players like Vardy, Coady etc were behind Cooper, wonder if that's what they mean with mentions of the club needed to do better in their statements? 

 

Both managers where a poor pick, people can't defend either.

Starting to look like they aren't happy with the attitudes of most the squad. The whole culture of not really being attached to the club is the narrative coming out. I'm sure we'll hear more on a Coady podcast next year. 

[inckley fox]

1 hour ago, orangecity23 said:

The first thing Cooper did was bang on about "experience" being the most important thing, then he asked for over the hill wasters like BdCR and Ayew and sidelined players like Fatawu, McAteer, Alves and Mavididi.

 

Is it any wonder that younger players didn't like him, when he made it obvious he'd go out of his way to avoid playing them? The older players would be keener, as their places in the team were basically guaranteed.

Well, the examples you gave would explain why he had that approach. Fatawu was poor in his early performances. McAteer doesn't look anywhere near a PL player. Alves is with a bottom three second tier club who can't decide whether he's good enough for their team. Mavididi has had a poor season. If those guys were the ones kicking up a fuss, I don't know how they felt they were in such a position, nor why the club would pay attention.

 

But we also have good reason to believe that Owen isn't entirely on the money here, and that Vestergard, Winks and possibly Faes were also unhappy. Now, they don't have the credit in the bank to be heeded either, but their discontent would nonetheless paint quite a different picture. Specifically, it would dispell this slightly silly idea that Cooper was obsessed with experience, sidelining and isolating all our young talent, and in some way we're doomed as a result. That incredibly simplistic argument - possibly conjured by people who are still trying to justify views on Cooper and Van Nistelrooy which haven't aged well - doesn't stack up.

 

I'm sure, given we'd spent around 20m on wingers leading up to his arrival, he'd have preferred bargain basement signings like Reid and Ayew to serve as back-up to them. After all, there's plenty in Cooper's managerial back story to suggest he wouldn't be averse to young talent, and the major fees we parted with under him were all for under-24s. But both Stephy and Fatawu started the season poorly, one got injured, then the other continued to be underwhelming. So the bargain buys ended up playing more than they should have.

[Big_Nige]

2 hours ago, orangecity23 said:

The first thing Cooper did was bang on about "experience" being the most important thing, then he asked for over the hill wasters like BdCR and Ayew and sidelined players like Fatawu, McAteer, Alves and Mavididi.

 

Is it any wonder that younger players didn't like him, when he made it obvious he'd go out of his way to avoid playing them? The older players would be keener, as their places in the team were basically guaranteed.

That post promotion feeling is really important for any club, if the fixture list is kind you can ride the wave and pick up points you might not in that difficult mid season period. We did it under Pearson, beating Man U, drawing with Arsenal etc etc. 

 

Cooper just installed a pessimism and negativity from day 1. Banged on about premier league experience, how tough it is in this division etc etc. This isn’t delusions of grandeur but we’d been there for the last decade, as a club and an fanbase we knew that, but treating us like he’s just took charge at Luton instantly got many fans backs up. And our existing squad had the relevant prem experience. We needed some stardust, not journeymen, as the existing squad had the bones to compete, with 4 or 5 starters coming in. What Cooper & the board did in the summer was inexcusable. Fulham away just sticks in the mind more than most. 2nd game of the season. We should approach it with no fear and we approached it like cowards. A team in the image of the manager

 

Ruud, he’s just out of his depth. A modern manager that over-coaches without coaching the actual match in front of him. He’s pathetic and indemic of so many modern coaches and why football is a duller as a spectacle than it ever used to be.  

 

Both the terrible appointments, both will never be seen in the premier league again,  and both say more about the scattergun unplanned nature of our board than anything else

[orangecity23]

2 hours ago, inckley fox said:

 

 

I'm sure, given we'd spent around 20m on wingers leading up to his arrival, he'd have preferred bargain basement signings like Reid and Ayew to serve as back-up to them. After all, there's plenty in Cooper's managerial back story to suggest he wouldn't be averse to young talent, and the major fees we parted with under him were all for under-24s. But both Stephy and Fatawu started the season poorly, one got injured, then the other continued to be underwhelming. So the bargain buys ended up playing more than they should have.

Stephy didn't start the season at all - he was immediately dropped to the bench to accommodate Bobby Reid in the starting lineup Vs Spurs. After a few games, BdCR was swapped for Ayew. Stephy didn't get a start until the Palace game - where he scored, and he scored again in the following game against Everton. Of course, as soon as Mav was in, Abdul was dropped from the starting 11. So Mavididi didn't "start poorly" - he was about our only threatening player in the early games off the bench. Bobby Reid was immediately picked, and contributed absolutely nothing in the opening games of the season.

[inckley fox]

1 hour ago, orangecity23 said:

Stephy didn't start the season at all - he was immediately dropped to the bench to accommodate Bobby Reid in the starting lineup Vs Spurs. After a few games, BdCR was swapped for Ayew. Stephy didn't get a start until the Palace game - where he scored, and he scored again in the following game against Everton. Of course, as soon as Mav was in, Abdul was dropped from the starting 11. So Mavididi didn't "start poorly" - he was about our only threatening player in the early games off the bench. Bobby Reid was immediately picked, and contributed absolutely nothing in the opening games of the season.

Well, if a player isn't selected because the manager doesn't deem him good enough, and is then mostly substandard when he finally is picked (under two different managers), I wouldn't classify that as a strong start, at least.

 

Are you suggesting that we've been held back a great deal by not having Stephy as a first teamer? That's a hard sell. If you're arguing that Reid was no better, that's not such a hard sell!

 

But by and large, we're talking about two players who haven't been good enough. I'd have lumped for Stephy too, just about, but I can understand perfectly why he was sidelined, and I doubt the stats, for what they're worth, illustrate that one should have got the shout over the other. Reid ended up playing more than he should, largely because two different managers were unimpressed by Stephy. As many glaring errors as Cooper and Ruud may have made, I wouldn't class that particular decision as anything exceptionally weird.

[Richard]

We were doomed since that horrible friendly against Lens

[Stadt]

1 minute ago, Richard said:

We were doomed since that horrible friendly against Lens

Doomed when we appointed a manager that his won 3 of his last 17 PL games. 
 

Forest fans harping on about him keeping us up when they sacked him because he was taking them down 

[MonarchFox]

1 minute ago, Stadt said:

Doomed when we appointed a manager that his won 3 of his last 17 PL games. 
 

Forest fans harping on about him keeping us up when they sacked him because he was taking them down 

Compared to RVN, that record looks amazing

[Stadt]

4 minutes ago, MonarchFox said:

Compared to RVN, that record looks amazing

His record is 3-2-17, pretty similar tbh

[Great Boos Up]

We went from a tactics expert in Enzo to a school teacher clapping his hands and shouting give it all you got lads. Not my words. Bad and desperate appointment.

[orangecity23]

2 hours ago, inckley fox said:

Well, if a player isn't selected because the manager doesn't deem him good enough, and is then mostly substandard when he finally is picked (under two different managers), I wouldn't classify that as a strong start, at least.

 

Are you suggesting that we've been held back a great deal by not having Stephy as a first teamer? That's a hard sell. If you're arguing that Reid was no better, that's not such a hard sell!

 

But by and large, we're talking about two players who haven't been good enough. I'd have lumped for Stephy too, just about, but I can understand perfectly why he was sidelined, and I doubt the stats, for what they're worth, illustrate that one should have got the shout over the other. Reid ended up playing more than he should, largely because two different managers were unimpressed by Stephy. As many glaring errors as Cooper and Ruud may have made, I wouldn't class that particular decision as anything exceptionally weird.

I am suggesting that your claim - that Stephy started the season "badly" and forced Cooper into playing his signings instead - is not true. He didn't start badly - because he was never given the chance to start. Cooper's signings were preferred from the off - which does not suggest that they were bought in a back ups, they were bought in as de-facto first choice options from the start. They weren't phased in gradually - they were immediate picks over players who performed well last season, despite the fact that BdCR has demonstrated very little, if any end product at all when starting games this season. I don't think we'd have been a lot better by using Mavididi more - but our team has massively, massively lacked pace this season, and he is one of the very few pacy players we have. Certainly when compared to Ayew, who seems to barely be capable of moving at times.

 

Can we really buy into Cooper's past career to say he is likely to give youngsters a chance? Its a bit hard to claim you are predisposed to giving younger players a chance at youth levels - not like you can exactly call up some 29 year olds when you are the England U17 boss, can you? If anything the big money signing don't suggest Cooper is some great believer in youth - they suggest he picked up one of his former England U17 players (Skipp -  a pattern he did at Forest as well going after the likes of Henderson, Gibbs-White and Hudson-Odoi), we were told that Okoli is signed to the same agent as Cooper, so that was probably an unimaginative agent placating pickup, and the "big" money signing was Bilal - who Cooper barely played.

Edited 23 April by orangecity23

[Chrysalis]

On 22/04/2025 at 02:12, Muzzy_no7 said:

Did you read what I said 

Yes, you was talking about perceived deserved results instead of actual results.

[Chrysalis]

On 22/04/2025 at 05:44, CrazyKopCorner said:

Cooper was absolutely ****ing shite. 

 

He bought absolute crap 

Pre season was a joke 

He continually played the wrong team - usually at least 3 players sat on the bench who should have played - His treatment of Ricky P was a disgrace 

He had doubts about Abdul - played Ayew and BDCFR (his signings) instead - Needs his ****ing eyes tested 

Tactics were negative garbage 

 

etc etc He would have taken us down just we'd have probably got to the Wolves game 

To be fair ricardo's performances were poor, Fatawa looked lost early on, and I expect Cooper knows more than you on who should be picked to play the game.

 

But to be fair to you you have actually given one of the most sane reasons on here for wanting him gone, which was you disagreed with the team he picked and didnt like his tactical approach. 

 

Of course Cooper didnt buy the players though.  I also tend to ignore pre season, thats why my own opinion hasnt factored that in and never has done with previous managers either.

[Chrysalis]

On 22/04/2025 at 08:24, Finnegan said:

Absolutely blows my mind the amount of people not intelligent enough to hold two different opinions in their head at the same time. 

 

It is possible for Ruud to be crap and get us relegated and also Cooper to be crap and was going to get us relegated. 

 

Even if Ruud is worse (I think he actually might be to be honest) that doesn't suddenly make Cooper good. 

 

They are just both terrible managers and were terrible appointments, nothing else really needs to be discussed. 

 

It is, but I noticed you did the same as many others, you said your sentence without saying Ruud was a downgrade on Cooper.

 

You think Ruud with his vastly inferior stats was a good swap for Cooper?

[Chrysalis]

On 22/04/2025 at 09:53, AKCJ said:

I think our record would have been just as bad if we hadn't sacked Cooper.

There is nothing to support this theory.

[teblin]

2 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

To be fair ricardo's performances were poor, Fatawa looked lost early on, and I expect Cooper knows more than you on who should be picked to play the game.

 

But to be fair to you you have actually given one of the most sane reasons on here for wanting him gone, which was you disagreed with the team he picked and didnt like his tactical approach. 

 

Of course Cooper didnt buy the players though.  I also tend to ignore pre season, thats why my own opinion hasnt factored that in and never has done with previous managers either.

Ricardo didn’t play? So how can his performances been poor?

 

justin is his position people put videos of 18 goals that were his fault. 
 

Fatawu needed to play with mavididi, not Ayew etc….

 

im sorry, no way cooper would’ve kept us up and RVN was pants

3 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

There is nothing to support this theory.

We were in the decline under cooper whether you believe that or not it’s up to you

[Chrysalis]

On 22/04/2025 at 08:06, Stadt said:

We were on 0.8 ppg under Cooper having played 10 man Southampton and Ipswich, two of the worst PL sides ever.

 

He has an abysmal PL record because he’s a shit manager, that the board then appointed another shit manager is immaterial to how shit appointing that shit bastard was. 

It is material, because the sacking only becomes a good decision if he is replaced with a better manager.

 

We have wasted money on RVN salary for a lower points total.

[Chrysalis]

12 minutes ago, teblin said:

Ricardo didn’t play? So how can his performances been poor?

 

justin is his position people put videos of 18 goals that were his fault. 
 

Fatawu needed to play with mavididi, not Ayew etc….

 

im sorry, no way cooper would’ve kept us up and RVN was pants

We were in the decline under cooper whether you believe that or not it’s up to you

He played under Cooper, not every game but he played.

 

I remember him losing the ball not under pressure against Forest which led to the passage of play for their first goal and then Justin getting blamed for it.

 

Ft was then filled with comments like "didnt notice it", "oh its Ricardo he gets a free pass".

 

For the most part Ricardo wasnt suited to the way of play under Cooper, a square peg in a round hole sort of thing, but of course there may have been other issues as well, such as him not respecting Coopers way of doing things, or fitness issues that we didnt know about.

 

I have also never said Cooper would have kept us up, just we would be on a much more respectable amount of points and goals scored.  My main point here is that we sacked Cooper for emotional reasons, without a proper successor lined up before hand to make it a rational decision.

Edited 23 April by Chrysalis

[teblin]

7 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

He played under Cooper, not every game but he played.

 

I remember him losing the ball not under pressure against Forest which led to the passage of play for their first goal and then Justin getting blamed for it.

 

Ft was then filled with comments like "didnt notice it", "oh its Ricardo he gets a free pass".

 

For the most part Ricardo wasnt suited to the way of play under Cooper, a square peg in a round hole sort of thing, but of course there may have been other issues as well, such as him not respecting Coopers way of doing things, or fitness issues that we didnt know about.

I get the “not suited”, but that also leads to the fact cooper shouldn’t have been appointed, in general the squad wasn’t suited to him.

 

Ricardo played 2 games in the league, forest which he may have made a mistake but our goal wouldn’t happened without him there. Best bit of football we played under cooper. (Also our only shot in target, one of 3 in the last 3 games at home under cooper). 
 

The goal in every game would’ve gone on, it was on the downturn under cooper, forest was woeful, Ipswich too on the whole, Chelsea was as bad as some of the RVN games, but for a sloppy penalty Chelsea gave away.

 

I guess we’re never going to agree here, but it wasn’t all rosy under cooper.