Ruud van Nistelrooy - New Manager - Official

[Stadt]

2 hours ago, Muzzy_no7 said:

Can you see us beating Fulham and Palace at home?

Probably not both games but we're capable of winning one. Vardy, Buonanotte, BEK etc are capable of scoring and creating against mid table teams, we're not going to lose every remaining game 

Edited 3 January by Stadt

[coolhandfox]

11 minutes ago, daddylonglegs said:

sneaking an extra 3 wins doesn't sound like much until you realise it's a 100% increase on our first half of the season  

In the great escape season we won 7 of the last 9 and winning 4 in the pervious 29.

 

I just think being so defeatist when you are two points from safety is a little odd.

[daddylonglegs]

5 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

In the great escape season we won 7 of the last 9 and winning 4 in the pervious 29.

 

I just think being so defeatist when you are two points from safety is a little odd.

Agree regarding the defeatist mentality, but it would be as impressive as the great escape if we stay up from here, regardless of how close we are to 17th. 

 

We've got about a third of our first XI out for the foreseeable and another 2 or 3 crucial players missing. It feels like we're heavily entirely dependent on Jon Rudkin pulling a Robert Huth esc signing out of his arse in January. 

[Uncle Monty]

In the great escape we were still in games. We look nowhere near that this season.

[WoodyFox]

12 minutes ago, Uncle Monty said:

In the great escape we were still in games. We look nowhere near that this season.

To think the characters, ability, fight and togetherness we had in that team and we only stayed up by 1 point. Current group is as far from that as could possibly be.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

9 minutes ago, Uncle Monty said:

In the great escape we were still in games. We look nowhere near that this season.

 

Hmmm. We were and we weren't, some definite revisionism goes on around that season because the scoreline was never indicative of a slapping and that side adn manager had (rightfully) a lot of credit in the bank largely.

 

Genuinely pitiful away losses to Palace, Swansea, Southampton, Newcastle and a home loss to West Brom where we didn't lay a glove and scored a grand total of 0 goals within the space of about 6 weeks hardly gave cause for optimism. I liked that side more but this lot don't have an insurmountable task. 

[Foxin_Mad]

This is the issue. We look a million miles off a Premier League team at present. We have had not one good dominant performance against anyone.

 

We simply aren't very good. The Director of football is responsible for that. 

 

I dont see when we next win a game, let alone the extras needed to stay up. Im also seeing a lot of teams on 20 points, so theres not many options on who goes down. 

 

The gaps growing. Id say enjoy the premier league as we wont be back here for some time. 

[Wymsey]

2 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said:

This is the issue. We look a million miles off a Premier League team at present. We have had not one good dominant performance against anyone.

 

We simply aren't very good. The Director of football is responsible for that. 

 

I dont see when we next win a game, let alone the extras needed to stay up. Im also seeing a lot of teams on 20 points, so theres not many options on who goes down. 

 

The gaps growing. Id say enjoy the premier league as we wont be back here for some time. 

It didn't look that way against Man City.

[coolhandfox]

1 hour ago, daddylonglegs said:

Agree regarding the defeatist mentality, but it would be as impressive as the great escape if we stay up from here, regardless of how close we are to 17th. 

 

We've got about a third of our first XI out for the foreseeable and another 2 or 3 crucial players missing. It feels like we're heavily entirely dependent on Jon Rudkin pulling a Robert Huth esc signing out of his arse in January. 

I think we will have a better idea by the end of January.

 

We definitely need a inspired singing like Huth.

 

Sadly I think if we'd have had Fatawu, Ricardo, Hermansen and Ndidi fit we would have been a good few points better off.

[The Doctor]

2 hours ago, RyCleary said:

It’s unreasonable and ridiculous to expect a manager of a club in a relegation battle to watch that clubs relegation season from two years ago when there’s still many of the same players here?

don't know why I'm bothering to argue with you when you've already made your mind up and are trying to justify it but let's look at the starting line up of wards final game of 22/23:

 

Ward

Amartey

Souttar

Faes

Ricardo

KDH

Mendy

Castagne

Iheanacho

Daka

Madison

 

of those only Ward, Faes, Ricardo and Daka are still here, and they've all played this season in the cups at a minimum 

 

[Foxin_Mad]

26 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

It didn't look that way against Man City.

A one off game against a Man City team devoid of confidence and luck, they still beat us easily on the day.

 

If we can offer something in the next 2 games maybe come out with 4 points, I may start to agree. 

[Torten]

37 minutes ago, WoodyFox said:

To think the characters, ability, fight and togetherness we had in that team and we only stayed up by 1 point. Current group is as far from that as could possibly be.

We stayed up by 6 points that season.

[Old Fox]

In that great escape season most of the bottom half was average and we had as much quality however we are miles away this season and I cannot pick three teams go to finishers below us and actually believe only saints are worse than us - sadly everyone else has better managers and more importantly better players as it stands!

[WoodyFox]

19 minutes ago, Torten said:

We stayed up by 6 points that season.

There is hope!!

[Kinowe Soorie]

With the very negative attitudes on here, will those people still bother going to watch? Not much point if you think we are down already.

[Fox92]

7 minutes ago, Old Fox said:

In that great escape season most of the bottom half was average and we had as much quality however we are miles away this season and I cannot pick three teams go to finishers below us and actually believe only saints are worse than us - sadly everyone else has better managers and more importantly better players as it stands!

Bottom half was probably stronger then that it is now. QPR finished bottom that season but won 8 games, I can't see Southampton winning 8 games this season.

 

We're 3 points off 16th (Everton) right now, we're hardly doomed with relegation as I type. Granted, I can't see where our next win is coming from but teams around us all have difficult games too (for example Wolves have got Forest, Newcastle and Chelsea in their next three games).

 

Depends on Wolves and Everton for me. I think Palace will stay up and they've had a nice run of form since their early poor start (aside from getting hammered by Arsenal). Wolves have had a turnaround but I'm not convinced they keep that form up. Everton will probably do enough to grind out wins and clean sheets at home.

 

Personally I am very sceptical of Van Nistelrooy but I hope I am proved wrong. I did think we'd go down prior to the season starting and have not seen anything to change my mind. 

[inckley fox]

3 hours ago, daddylonglegs said:

Agree regarding the defeatist mentality, but it would be as impressive as the great escape if we stay up from here, regardless of how close we are to 17th. 

 

We've got about a third of our first XI out for the foreseeable and another 2 or 3 crucial players missing. It feels like we're heavily entirely dependent on Jon Rudkin pulling a Robert Huth esc signing out of his arse in January. 

I might be missing something as regards all the talk of a near-insurmountable injury crisis. As far as I can see we're mid to upper-mid table in the EPL injury table. It's not unusual to have a lot of absences at this time of year.

 

Hermansen is short term, hopefully. Ricardo is always injured and even when fit hasn't often been a starter for us in the past few top flight seasons, under Rodgers, Smith or Cooper. Fatawu is a serious loss, but he'd struggled to adapt and was in and out of the side. As for Wilf, I'm not sure he'd supplant Winks / Soumare / Buonanotte / Bilal at the moment even if he were available. McAteer really hasn't shown that he's first team material at this level. I may well be forgetting someone, but I don't feel that amounts to a third of our established starting XI and a couple of other crucial players being injured, and it's certainly nothing exceptional for the New Year period.

 

2 hours ago, The Doctor said:

don't know why I'm bothering to argue with you when you've already made your mind up and are trying to justify it but let's look at the starting line up of wards final game of 22/23:

 

Ward

Amartey

Souttar

Faes

Ricardo

KDH

Mendy

Castagne

Iheanacho

Daka

Madison

 

of those only Ward, Faes, Ricardo and Daka are still here, and they've all played this season in the cups at a minimum 

 

This is perhaps a tad selective! We also had Kristiansen and Vardy on the bench, both of whom featured regularly as either starters or subs. Iversen, as in the past couple of games, was our back-up. We had Justin out injured, but he played in that awful run of form early in the season. Wilf must have played 25+ games that season. Thomas was in both squads, as was Soumare, who featured more regularly near the end of the season. So there are the four you mentioned (one of which - Faes - was a regular in both campaigns, and a standout in both in terms of how poor he was), and another 6-7 players who were either regular starters or established squad members, even if we ignore the managers overlooking of Vestergard that season.

 

That's a fair number, as you might expect only 18 months or so later. 10 or 11 players, all regulars in the 18 for both seasons in question, plus Iversen, Choudhury, Vestergard beyond that. The defensive options for both squads were very similar, and severely limited as regards PL-quality. Both sides had failed to find a viable alternative to Vardy.

 

It's hardly been a comprehensive rebuild, and maybe that's part of the problem now.

Edited 3 January by inckley fox

[Mickyblueeyes]

You look at Ruud and his skill at improving players. Or better still, improving young players. Survival remains the hope but reality is, unless we sign some quality this window, it’s unlikely. With the clubs performance (or lack of) that is unlikely. 
 

What I am hoping for the rest of this season is he continues to blood talent and sets us up for a core to progress next year in the championship. Jacob, Nelson, Alves, Fatawu (the injury may keep him with us) alongside experienced players like Vestegaard Skipp, Mavididi gives us a decent core for a championship push. Perhaps not as strong as the last time but certainly not push overs. 
 

The hope is he stays to continue the job or we bring someone else in with a similar mentality. 

[daddylonglegs]

9 minutes ago, inckley fox said:

I might be missing something as regards all the talk of a near-insurmountable injury crisis. As far as I can see we're mid to upper-mid table in the EPL injury table. It's not unusual to have a lot of absences at this time of year.

 

Hermansen is short term, hopefully. Ricardo is always injured and even when fit hasn't often been a starter for us in the past few top flight seasons, under Rodgers, Smith or Cooper. Fatawu is a serious loss, but he'd struggled to adapt and was in and out of the side. As for Wilf, I'm not sure he'd supplant Winks / Soumare / Buonanotte / Bilal at the moment even if he were available. McAteer really hasn't shown that he's first team material at this level. I may well be forgetting someone, but I don't feel that amounts to a third of our established starting XI and a couple of other crucial players being injured, and it's certainly nothing exceptional for the New Year period.

 

 

It's definitely not unusual to have absences, you're right. The absences we have *all* being our best players is an absolute sickener. I could deal with our 7 injuries if maybe one or two were starters & the rest were squad players, but thats simply not the case. We've got about 7 players that are of PL quality and they've all either been injured or are out for the season. 

 

Ricardo played about 40 games last year. He wasn't a starter in the two years previous to that cos a scouse yob broke his leg & then Bilbo rushed him back. If we had him at RB all year instead of Justin we wouldn't be in the bottom three.

 

Fatawu an absolute killer of a miss. That's our entire right flank wiped out by injury. Replaced by Justin (an absolute shadow of his former self) and regularly McAteer (A league one/championship footballer at best). 

Then the midfield, Ndidi is absolutely part of our 1st XI under a competent manager in the PL. Your comment regarding Soumare/Bilal/Buenonotte is recency bias after good outings against Liverpool & City. Winks also injured for crucial matches against West Ham, Brighton & Wolves. 

 

Hermansen is going to miss 10-15% of the season in which time we're playing the two teams we're competing against to survive in Wolves & Everton. 

 

Re your point as to how it adds up to 1/3 of the team missing... Hermansen, Ricardo, Fatawu, Ndidi all unavailable. 

 

[Uncle Monty]

3 hours ago, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

 

Hmmm. We were and we weren't, some definite revisionism goes on around that season because the scoreline was never indicative of a slapping and that side adn manager had (rightfully) a lot of credit in the bank largely.

 

Genuinely pitiful away losses to Palace, Swansea, Southampton, Newcastle and a home loss to West Brom where we didn't lay a glove and scored a grand total of 0 goals within the space of about 6 weeks hardly gave cause for optimism. I liked that side more but this lot don't have an insurmountable task. 

Hard to judge for me looking back given how successful the team went on to be, but I felt more confident with the players and staff in place.

 

Let's just hope for another turnaround this season. As things stand halfway through its hard to argue that we aren't were we are supposed to be. From what I've seen only Southampton look worse than us and that's also reflected in the table.

[sishades]

3 hours ago, Wymsey said:

It didn't look that way against Man City.

It did against everyone else.

[Kitchandro]

4 hours ago, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

 

Hmmm. We were and we weren't, some definite revisionism goes on around that season because the scoreline was never indicative of a slapping and that side adn manager had (rightfully) a lot of credit in the bank largely.

 

Genuinely pitiful away losses to Palace, Swansea, Southampton, Newcastle and a home loss to West Brom where we didn't lay a glove and scored a grand total of 0 goals within the space of about 6 weeks hardly gave cause for optimism. I liked that side more but this lot don't have an insurmountable task. 

I agree we put in several shocking performances that season (we generally performed against better teams but not the average ones).
 

The difference is that side was very talented and capable of going on a run. I thought at the time we were much better than bottom. This one has been poorly managed as well, but the players are crap. I don’t think we’re underachieving that much, we aren’t clearly better than 3 teams even at our best.

 

We can stay up if we improve significantly (defensively especially) but we’re likely to go down.

[The Doctor]

1 hour ago, inckley fox said:

I might be missing something as regards all the talk of a near-insurmountable injury crisis. As far as I can see we're mid to upper-mid table in the EPL injury table. It's not unusual to have a lot of absences at this time of year.

 

Hermansen is short term, hopefully. Ricardo is always injured and even when fit hasn't often been a starter for us in the past few top flight seasons, under Rodgers, Smith or Cooper. Fatawu is a serious loss, but he'd struggled to adapt and was in and out of the side. As for Wilf, I'm not sure he'd supplant Winks / Soumare / Buonanotte / Bilal at the moment even if he were available. McAteer really hasn't shown that he's first team material at this level. I may well be forgetting someone, but I don't feel that amounts to a third of our established starting XI and a couple of other crucial players being injured, and it's certainly nothing exceptional for the New Year period.

 

This is perhaps a tad selective! We also had Kristiansen and Vardy on the bench, both of whom featured regularly as either starters or subs. Iversen, as in the past couple of games, was our back-up. We had Justin out injured, but he played in that awful run of form early in the season. Wilf must have played 25+ games that season. Thomas was in both squads, as was Soumare, who featured more regularly near the end of the season. So there are the four you mentioned (one of which - Faes - was a regular in both campaigns, and a standout in both in terms of how poor he was), and another 6-7 players who were either regular starters or established squad members, even if we ignore the managers overlooking of Vestergard that season.

 

That's a fair number, as you might expect only 18 months or so later. 10 or 11 players, all regulars in the 18 for both seasons in question, plus Iversen, Choudhury, Vestergard beyond that. The defensive options for both squads were very similar, and severely limited as regards PL-quality. Both sides had failed to find a viable alternative to Vardy.

 

It's hardly been a comprehensive rebuild, and maybe that's part of the problem now.

I think you've somewhat missed the point. Which ever way you slice it, half the squad from that game have since left, and if you look at Cooper's last game in charge, 10 of the match day squad for that game have joined/broken into the first team since then. You would reasonably expect a new manager to watch recent games to get an idea of the squad they're inheriting. At this time of year they may even watch a few from the previous season. Going back 18 months to 2 years to watch games is not a reasonable expectation by any stretch of the imagination 

[Kitchandro]

57 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

I think you've somewhat missed the point. Which ever way you slice it, half the squad from that game have since left, and if you look at Cooper's last game in charge, 10 of the match day squad for that game have joined/broken into the first team since then. You would reasonably expect a new manager to watch recent games to get an idea of the squad they're inheriting. At this time of year they may even watch a few from the previous season. Going back 18 months to 2 years to watch games is not a reasonable expectation by any stretch of the imagination 

Sorry but I disagree - if you’re getting paid as much as these guys at this level, you should be doing everything you can to know everything you can.
 

Considering the likes of Faes can’t realistically be judged on his championship performances as opposed to his premier league ones, and considering Ward’s crimes two seasons ago are extremely relevant to why he shouldn’t have given him a chance against Wolves - Ruud has shown himself unprepared for the job and we have already lost valuable points because he doesn’t know what his best (or worst) team is.

[Old Fox]

1 hour ago, Kitchandro said:

Sorry but I disagree - if you’re getting paid as much as these guys at this level, you should be doing everything you can to know everything you can.
 

Considering the likes of Faes can’t realistically be judged on his championship performances as opposed to his premier league ones, and considering Ward’s crimes two seasons ago are extremely relevant to why he shouldn’t have given him a chance against Wolves - Ruud has shown himself unprepared for the job and we have already lost valuable points because he doesn’t know what his best (or worst) team is.

He has got some stuff right like dropping Faes and then Ward and the back room needs to help him and I defy anyone to have understood the qualities in the short time he has had - they got it wrong in the summer and time will tell if RVN is any good or not !