Next Manager

[winteriscoming]

Would we be better off with an experienced manager rather than an up and coming manager? I’d rather go for experience. 

[Gamble92]

49 minutes ago, kingfox said:

Annoyingly, of the current top 10 teams in the Championship, 8 of them fall in the top 10 for most possession this season. 
 

Only Sheffield United and Sunderland slightly fall outside that bracket. 
 

The Championship is being dominated by teams who like to control possession, it’s why going down that route again seems highly likely. 
 

If that’s to be the case, I’d still want someone who isn’t scared of throwing youth into the mix. 
 

It’s a shame West Brom took Mowbray, he would have been perfect for that type of scenario. 
 

Maybe it’s why the club are supposedly interested in Rosenior, worked with a relatively young squad at Hull, now working with the youngest squad in Ligue 1 at Strasbourg. 
 

I’d also make a case for Tom Cleverley, his reign at Watford has been far from perfect, but he’s done a solid enough job considering the media were tipping them for relegation this season. Watford have one of the more younger squads in the division, while he hasn’t been scared to throw youth into the mix.

I don't mind valuing possession. One of the many things i despise about the Russell Martin and Enzo new types is this absolutely bullshit philosophy that it doesn't matter if you lose as long as you played their way.

 

The amount of games in that second half of the season that we lost by a goal and looked nothing like scoring. Against teams we had one player worth more than their entire squads at times. 

 

From a result standpoint it benefitted us for games we could be flat track bullies and just keep the ball at the back when teams like Stoke would just give us way too much respect. Once that respect stopped or we played the better teams, there was nothing to suggest the tactics were anything special. 

[Bilo]

I'd go for Rosenior if he wants it, which he probably won't if Strasbourg make Europe. That aside, and given our likely position regarding PSR and the EFL wanting a pop at us, I'd either promote Barry-Murphy or King to oversee the transitioning youth team players. It might not lead to promotion at the first attempt, but could lead to a sustainable foundation. 

[Lako42]

Can we stop with this Andy King for manager bollocks please. 

[Claudio Fannieri]

Rosenior would be the stand out choice for me, but would be very happy with Wellens, Cleverley or as an outsider Jan Dahl Tommason who did a decent job at Blackburn and had them playing some decent stuff before taking the Sweden job. 
 

I really don’t want King being thrown under a bus just yet, let him earn his coaching stripes and mould him to take over in a few years. 

[Corky]

10 minutes ago, Lako42 said:

Can we stop with this Andy King for manager bollocks please. 

King, King,

Andy, Andy King,

If he takes the role we might score a goal,

Andy, Andy King.

 

Go on Kingy 

[kingfox]

57 minutes ago, Gamble92 said:

I don't mind valuing possession. One of the many things i despise about the Russell Martin and Enzo new types is this absolutely bullshit philosophy that it doesn't matter if you lose as long as you played their way.

 

The amount of games in that second half of the season that we lost by a goal and looked nothing like scoring. Against teams we had one player worth more than their entire squads at times. 

 

From a result standpoint it benefitted us for games we could be flat track bullies and just keep the ball at the back when teams like Stoke would just give us way too much respect. Once that respect stopped or we played the better teams, there was nothing to suggest the tactics were anything special. 

Fully agree. 
 

It’s partly why the Championship model frustrates me. How many of the current top 10 in the Championship are actually good to watch, you could make a good case for not many, because too many of the managers are obsessed with controlling possession.
 

But it’s a style that has shown it can get teams out of the Championship, but come the Premier League it tends to be not sustainable. 
 

The Premier League has evolved to a more direct, fast breaks style, especially this season. Under Maresca even though we were a possession heavy team, we were also statistically the best team in the Championship for counter attacks. 
 

Instead of capitalising on that for the Premier League, Steve Cooper gifted us Jordan Ayew and Bobby Reid, now throughout this season, we look like one of the worst counter attacking teams in the country.  

[winteriscoming]

Jess Thorup. 
 

[OntarioFox]

Fifteen pages and no serious mention of this fella, sort it out FoxesTalk

 

[Bilo]

30 minutes ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

 

I really don’t want King being thrown under a bus just yet, let him earn his coaching stripes and mould him to take over in a few years. 

I understand this, but Cleverley has done well at Watford with little to no managerial experience.

 

Even if not the main man, he has to be part of the coaching team in my opinion. 

[Claudio Fannieri]

7 minutes ago, Bilo said:

I understand this, but Cleverley has done well at Watford with little to no managerial experience.

 

Even if not the main man, he has to be part of the coaching team in my opinion. 

Agree Kingy should 100% be involved in a coaching capacity with the 1st team and use the time to prepare him to eventually step up when ready. 

[Gamble92]

3 hours ago, kingfox said:

Fully agree. 
 

It’s partly why the Championship model frustrates me. How many of the current top 10 in the Championship are actually good to watch, you could make a good case for not many, because too many of the managers are obsessed with controlling possession.
 

But it’s a style that has shown it can get teams out of the Championship, but come the Premier League it tends to be not sustainable. 
 

The Premier League has evolved to a more direct, fast breaks style, especially this season. Under Maresca even though we were a possession heavy team, we were also statistically the best team in the Championship for counter attacks. 
 

Instead of capitalising on that for the Premier League, Steve Cooper gifted us Jordan Ayew and Bobby Reid, now throughout this season, we look like one of the worst counter attacking teams in the country.  

Theres definitely substance to the theory that keeping the ball at the back means there's less time for the opposition to score and I'd concede that it did work in that run where teams would turn up at the KP and sit back the whole match. Fun to watch? Absolutely not. But effective for results. Even then though I was sat watching games thinking we could win this by 5 or 6 playing quicker. Instead we'd settle for "methodical" 2-0 wins. 

 

His time to show everyone he was genuinely a good manager came when teams adapted to us. Used that word revisionism a lot when talking about Cooper and in comparison to Ruud, Enzo looks like Ancelotti. But he was absolutely found out in that second half of the season and we almost forget how bad we were. Hated the way he managed the squad too. Another thing this "philosophy" does is instantly alienate players who don't apparently fit that exact way of playing. The amount of money we wasted on players like Kristensen, only to then deem him obsolete for that level because he doesn't play inverted. Another Rudkin masterclass. 

[Dan]

13 hours ago, ClaphamFox said:

Martin and O’Neil have both very recently comprehensively failed to achieve exactly the kind of job we would want them to do. Appointing either of them would mean completely ignoring those failures. RVN is far more likely to stay than one of those two being appointed. 

Martin got promoted last time out from a quite similar position and O'Neil kept Bournemouth up against the odds, and probably would've gotten Wolves over the line this year as well. I'm not saying I want either at all by the way. I'd not put it past our board and I'm a lot less confident than you of them making a good decision. I've thought a while it could be O'Neil.

[Dan]

9 hours ago, Rossiter said:

If Burnley fail to get promoted...Scott Parker. Nevermind goals, I'd love to see a clean sheet or two. That's hell of a defensive  record for Burnley this season.

Burnley's defensive record is a total freak. They've conceded more chances than Leeds.

[ClaphamFox]

9 minutes ago, Dan said:

Martin got promoted last time out from a quite similar position and O'Neil kept Bournemouth up against the odds, and probably would've gotten Wolves over the line this year as well. I'm not saying I want either at all by the way. I'd not put it past our board and I'm a lot less confident than you of them making a good decision. I've thought a while it could be O'Neil.

O’Neil is a coach, not a manager. He’s already shown he can’t control a dressing room. He would be a disastrous appointment. 

[Pliskin]

6 hours ago, Bilo said:

I'd go for Rosenior if he wants it, which he probably won't if Strasbourg make Europe. That aside, and given our likely position regarding PSR and the EFL wanting a pop at us, I'd either promote Barry-Murphy or King to oversee the transitioning youth team players. It might not lead to promotion at the first attempt, but could lead to a sustainable foundation. 

The EFL won’t be able to touch us. They will try, but **** all will happen. We are more of a danger to ourselves than they are currently. 

[Pliskin]

Liam Rosenior is the man. We just need to hope he doesn’t achieve a European finish, he may fancy coming back then. 

[kingfox]

1 hour ago, Gamble92 said:

Theres definitely substance to the theory that keeping the ball at the back means there's less time for the opposition to score and I'd concede that it did work in that run where teams would turn up at the KP and sit back the whole match. Fun to watch? Absolutely not. But effective for results. Even then though I was sat watching games thinking we could win this by 5 or 6 playing quicker. Instead we'd settle for "methodical" 2-0 wins. 

 

His time to show everyone he was genuinely a good manager came when teams adapted to us. Used that word revisionism a lot when talking about Cooper and in comparison to Ruud, Enzo looks like Ancelotti. But he was absolutely found out in that second half of the season and we almost forget how bad we were. Hated the way he managed the squad too. Another thing this "philosophy" does is instantly alienate players who don't apparently fit that exact way of playing. The amount of money we wasted on players like Kristensen, only to then deem him obsolete for that level because he doesn't play inverted. Another Rudkin masterclass. 

The problem I found with Enzo and numerous other Championship managers, is the fact they are too one dimensional, they have to play a particular way and stick to it, as you say when more teams found us out last season, it was a very crap and frustrating watch at times. Such a particular style can be absolutely perfect for players, he got the best out of Hermansen, Vestergaard, Winks, Mavididi, Fatawu, but as you say, it can also alienate players, Kristiansen an example. 
 

But as I stated in my previous post, the Premier League has evolved this season, it feels like we haven’t caught up with the times and the stats back that up. Teams have been very effective with counter attacks and fast breaks, we haven’t. 
 

This is from the Championship last season…

 

Now look where the three teams in the relegation zone fall in the Premier League this season. 

 

A lot of things are to blame for us not doing well this season, but failing to get with the times seems to have played a massive role with how crap we’ve been this season. 
 

Shame I can’t find stats for the Championship to see if that league has evolved in a similar direction. 
 

But if this is the norm going forward, we need a manager who not only trusts youth, but can play effective football on transition with speed and counter attacking ability. 

[Dan]

Having a lot of possession doesn't necessarily mean you were boring, it more than likely means you had the superior players and the tactics employed by both managers were tailored to suit this. I think possession is for the most part a byproduct of who has the better players, rather than it being the primary aim. There are obviously freak examples - Martin and Maresca are both obsessed with it.

[SemperEadem]

Why would Rosenior come here unless homesick

[Dan]

6 hours ago, kingfox said:

Fully agree. 
 

It’s partly why the Championship model frustrates me. How many of the current top 10 in the Championship are actually good to watch, you could make a good case for not many, because too many of the managers are obsessed with controlling possession.
 

But it’s a style that has shown it can get teams out of the Championship, but come the Premier League it tends to be not sustainable. 
 

The Premier League has evolved to a more direct, fast breaks style, especially this season. Under Maresca even though we were a possession heavy team, we were also statistically the best team in the Championship for counter attacks. 
 

Instead of capitalising on that for the Premier League, Steve Cooper gifted us Jordan Ayew and Bobby Reid, now throughout this season, we look like one of the worst counter attacking teams in the country.  

That's what does it for me. I've long said I want a manager who is capable of winning a game with 70% of the ball and is also capable of winning a game with 30% of the ball.

 

Maresca's record against teams of a comparable or higher level is pretty awful. He's beaten nobody of note at Chelsea, beat nobody decent with Parma, and the best side he beat with us was Southampton.

 

I suppose Bournemouth in the cup actually, but I don't think it reflects particularly well on his tactics. He's had I think more bad results against lesser sides, than good results against better sides.

[kingfox]

1 hour ago, kingfox said:

The problem I found with Enzo and numerous other Championship managers, is the fact they are too one dimensional, they have to play a particular way and stick to it, as you say when more teams found us out last season, it was a very crap and frustrating watch at times. Such a particular style can be absolutely perfect for players, he got the best out of Hermansen, Vestergaard, Winks, Mavididi, Fatawu, but as you say, it can also alienate players, Kristiansen an example. 
 

But as I stated in my previous post, the Premier League has evolved this season, it feels like we haven’t caught up with the times and the stats back that up. Teams have been very effective with counter attacks and fast breaks, we haven’t. 
 

This is from the Championship last season…

 

Now look where the three teams in the relegation zone fall in the Premier League this season. 

 

A lot of things are to blame for us not doing well this season, but failing to get with the times seems to have played a massive role with how crap we’ve been this season. 
 

Shame I can’t find stats for the Championship to see if that league has evolved in a similar direction. 
 

But if this is the norm going forward, we need a manager who not only trusts youth, but can play effective football on transition with speed and counter attacking ability. 

An add on to this as I’ve found more stats. 
 

In a league that has evolved where fast breaks are more prominent, we are officially the worst team in the Premier League for fast breaks. Southampton 2nd worst, Ipswich 4th worst. 
 

We need to get with the times otherwise we’ll continue to fall behind.

[Dan]

1 hour ago, kingfox said:

An add on to this as I’ve found more stats. 
 

In a league that has evolved where fast breaks are more prominent, we are officially the worst team in the Premier League for fast breaks. Southampton 2nd worst, Ipswich 4th worst. 
 

We need to get with the times otherwise we’ll continue to fall behind.

The pace of our attacking under RVN is absolutely pitiful. He's managed to stifle any attacking play we had before, and there wasn't much to stifle.

 

Ipswich surprise me on there - they really aren't up to it.

Edited 30 March by Dan

[kingfox]

1 hour ago, Dan said:

The pace of our attacking under RVN is absolutely pitiful. He's managed to stifle any attacking play we had before, and there wasn't much to stifle.

 

Ipswich surprise me on there - they really aren't up to it.

This graph also shows the shift in the Premier League of teams being more fast and direct.

 

But as I posted with an earlier graph, our problem is we’re non existent on the counter attack. 
 

But that’s what you get when you appoint Steve Cooper, he gifts you Jordan Ayew and Bobby Reid, then you appoint RVN who persisted with them for a chunk of games just because they did alright against Spurs. 
 

It’s no wonder we’ve been shit, when the league has evolved, but we don’t have the right players to evolve with it. 
 

We didn’t replace Fatawu with a like-for-like and it’s hurt us massively. 

[Vindaloo FOX]

Quique Sánchez Flores