Premier League has charged LCFC with an alleged breach of PSR

[Scotch]

14 minutes ago, Jattdogg said:

I'd be fine with that. Can't be mad when our owners/ leaders cocked up badly. We deserve what is coming based on the rules. Whether you like the PSR rules or not.

100%. If we get deducted points THIS season, it's more than we deserve. 

[Foxin_Mad]

We just need to stop playing the victim cards now. No amount of claimed ‘ambition’ from the morons at the club can account for spending Money we don’t have on Eduoard, Skipp and BDCR. 
 

There comes a point when you just need to say we ****ed up. 

[Winstonthedog]

5 hours ago, Foxin_Mad said:

We just need to stop playing the victim cards now. No amount of claimed ‘ambition’ from the morons at the club can account for spending Money we don’t have on Eduoard, Skipp and BDCR. 
 

There comes a point when you just need to say we ****ed up. 

Spot on .... man up and take responsibility... look at the poor signings inflated wages for poor players ... this is a problem of the clubs own making ... step out and own the facts ... not stick to the plan of  ... ignore it and it will go away ... well it won't 

[SemperEadem]

7 hours ago, CUJimmy said:

My understanding is that LCFC is not a subsidiary of King Power, the club is wholly owned by Top and his family who also separately own KP.

Oh how fantastic.

[Terraloon]

2 hours ago, Winstonthedog said:

Spot on .... man up and take responsibility... look at the poor signings inflated wages for poor players ... this is a problem of the clubs own making ... step out and own the facts ... not stick to the plan of  ... ignore it and it will go away ... well it won't 

For some years now it has been abundantly clear that LCFC are being run as a major loss making entity. You need look no further than the accounting bottom line to know that spending the amount on wages, on transfer fees on non playing staff could not be paid out of the amount of revenue the club generated.

 

It’s all well and good pointing fingers at others, at the rules and above all the leagues but LCFC has been run by a group of individuals that are akin to kids in a candy store.

 

Of course the rules are flawed but they are what they are . It was so obvious that the “ wins “ that the lawyers achieved  were shallow. The written reasons from the appeal panel were clearly not sound the fact the the PL went to arbitration, something they rarely do, should have set alarm bells ringing but no the club ploughed on as opposed to sitting down with the PL to try  and agree a settlement. Something that it is far too late in the day to do.

 

Back to those accounts . Without huge transfer profits the losses over the last three years would be over  £350 million from a business that over the same period generated less than £600 million. Transfer fees aren’t guaranteed yet year on year they have to a large degree masked the incompetent management of the clubs finances. It was abundantly clear that it all was going to end in tears.

 

For me the clubs latest statement is so flawed as to be a joke. They fail to acknowledge the simple fact that the PLs initial view as to jurisdiction was correct.

That’s key because now rather than LCFC being able to claim any mitigation whatsoever the PL and yes ultimately the EFL will go in all guns blazing. The circumstances and lack of co operation will be almost certainly be argued as the aggravating factors leading to any sanction being applied in full!

 

I have been saying for months on here for months that the claimed victories were not and would end up biting the club on the bum and that is now starting to be the case.

 

Theres around a month left of the current accounting year and to stand a chance in terms of posting decent numbers in the accounts I reckon around £70 million needs to be generated in sales and that’s not to make a profit but to keep loses under £50 million which will help but going forward as I posted yesterday the allowances will reduce now year on year, if promotion isn’t achieved and that when the amount that can be spent on transfers and wages has to drop and drop fast.

[ClaphamFox]

43 minutes ago, Terraloon said:

For some years now it has been abundantly clear that LCFC are being run as a major loss making entity. You need look no further than the accounting bottom line to know that spending the amount on wages, on transfer fees on non playing staff could not be paid out of the amount of revenue the club generated.

 

It’s all well and good pointing fingers at others, at the rules and above all the leagues but LCFC has been run by a group of individuals that are akin to kids in a candy store.

 

Of course the rules are flawed but they are what they are . It was so obvious that the “ wins “ that the lawyers achieved  were shallow. The written reasons from the appeal panel were clearly not sound the fact the the PL went to arbitration, something they rarely do, should have set alarm bells ringing but no the club ploughed on as opposed to sitting down with the PL to try  and agree a settlement. Something that it is far too late in the day to do.

 

Back to those accounts . Without huge transfer profits the losses over the last three years would be over  £350 million from a business that over the same period generated less than £600 million. Transfer fees aren’t guaranteed yet year on year they have to a large degree masked the incompetent management of the clubs finances. It was abundantly clear that it all was going to end in tears.

 

For me the clubs latest statement is so flawed as to be a joke. They fail to acknowledge the simple fact that the PLs initial view as to jurisdiction was correct.

That’s key because now rather than LCFC being able to claim any mitigation whatsoever the PL and yes ultimately the EFL will go in all guns blazing. The circumstances and lack of co operation will be almost certainly be argued as the aggravating factors leading to any sanction being applied in full!

 

I have been saying for months on here for months that the claimed victories were not and would end up biting the club on the bum and that is now starting to be the case.

 

Theres around a month left of the current accounting year and to stand a chance in terms of posting decent numbers in the accounts I reckon around £70 million needs to be generated in sales and that’s not to make a profit but to keep loses under £50 million which will help but going forward as I posted yesterday the allowances will reduce now year on year, if promotion isn’t achieved and that when the amount that can be spent on transfers and wages has to drop and drop fast.

Won't the fact that we won our appeal initially be regarded by the Commission as evidence that our case was at least arguable? In other words, our appeal wasn't a frivolous one designed to delay proceedings, but rather a reasonable one that stood a chance of success (and indeed was initially successful)? It's a minor point perhaps, but could influence the level of deduction by a point or two. 

[Les-TA-Jon]

10 hours ago, Foxin_Mad said:

We just need to stop playing the victim cards now. No amount of claimed ‘ambition’ from the morons at the club can account for spending Money we don’t have on Eduoard, Skipp and BDCR. 
 

There comes a point when you just need to say we ****ed up. 

Also note that the version of this regime that 'wasted' money on / overpaid for players like Coady, Vestergaard, Ayew, Reid, Eduoard, Skipp, etc is the one that's ambition was limited by PSR situation. 

 

Just imagine what kind of state we'd be in if Top and Rudkin had been allowed to do what they like...

[Bluetintedspecs]

I'm no financial expert but this stinks to me of the Premier League trying to save face over their own ineptitude over the, now amended , rules. 

No clubs with PSR charges to answer in January  yet now 🤔🤷‍♂️.

I personally don't think this will result in a heavy points deduction due to 22/23 loophole year being aclosed matter. Hopefully a bit of posturing , the EPL puffing out their chest saying we got away with it and your cards are marked if you do it again etc etc 

 

 

[Winstonthedog]

2 hours ago, Terraloon said:

For some years now it has been abundantly clear that LCFC are being run as a major loss making entity. You need look no further than the accounting bottom line to know that spending the amount on wages, on transfer fees on non playing staff could not be paid out of the amount of revenue the club generated.

 

It’s all well and good pointing fingers at others, at the rules and above all the leagues but LCFC has been run by a group of individuals that are akin to kids in a candy store.

 

Of course the rules are flawed but they are what they are . It was so obvious that the “ wins “ that the lawyers achieved  were shallow. The written reasons from the appeal panel were clearly not sound the fact the the PL went to arbitration, something they rarely do, should have set alarm bells ringing but no the club ploughed on as opposed to sitting down with the PL to try  and agree a settlement. Something that it is far too late in the day to do.

 

Back to those accounts . Without huge transfer profits the losses over the last three years would be over  £350 million from a business that over the same period generated less than £600 million. Transfer fees aren’t guaranteed yet year on year they have to a large degree masked the incompetent management of the clubs finances. It was abundantly clear that it all was going to end in tears.

 

For me the clubs latest statement is so flawed as to be a joke. They fail to acknowledge the simple fact that the PLs initial view as to jurisdiction was correct.

That’s key because now rather than LCFC being able to claim any mitigation whatsoever the PL and yes ultimately the EFL will go in all guns blazing. The circumstances and lack of co operation will be almost certainly be argued as the aggravating factors leading to any sanction being applied in full!

 

I have been saying for months on here for months that the claimed victories were not and would end up biting the club on the bum and that is now starting to be the case.

 

Theres around a month left of the current accounting year and to stand a chance in terms of posting decent numbers in the accounts I reckon around £70 million needs to be generated in sales and that’s not to make a profit but to keep loses under £50 million which will help but going forward as I posted yesterday the allowances will reduce now year on year, if promotion isn’t achieved and that when the amount that can be spent on transfers and wages has to drop and drop fast.

So basically as I said we have fuc#ed ourselves good and proper ...¹

[lcfc_forever]

Kieran Maguire on his 'Price of Football' podcast re-confirmed that it's his understanding a points punishment has to apply this season. I suspect that the club's understanding too which is why they are now being cooperative. However, they could add a financial punishment that would apply next season. 

 

He said EFL could come after us for 2024/25, not 23/24. So the next few weeks are going to be huge to make sure we don't break PSR again for 24/25 - I think the deadline is 30 June? If the EFL suspect that we're going to break PSR, they could put us on a business plan before charging the club and hearing the case around December. 

Edited 22 May 2025 by lcfc_forever

[Les-TA-Jon]

37 minutes ago, Bluetintedspecs said:

I'm no financial expert but this stinks to me of the Premier League trying to save face over their own ineptitude over the, now amended , rules. 

No clubs with PSR charges to answer in January  yet now 🤔🤷‍♂️.

I personally don't think this will result in a heavy points deduction due to 22/23 loophole year being aclosed matter. Hopefully a bit of posturing , the EPL puffing out their chest saying we got away with it and your cards are marked if you do it again etc etc 

 

 

Your pictures explain it. 

• PL didn't change anyone with PSR breaches in Jan 2025, including Leicester
• But they did say, regarding Leicester: "The matter remained "the subject of confidential arbitration proceedings" 
• So they wanted to charge us, but couldn't or didn't want to until those proceedings concluded - which was they did, resulting in the announcement on Tues.
• Part of that proceeding was determining whether (A) PL had jurisdiction over Leicester for PSR ending 23/24 and (B) the appeal of Leicester's appeal (loophole argument)
• PL was unsuccessful with B but successful with A - they probably didn't want to charge us with PSR breach in Jan 2025, until they knew the outcome of B - to avoid further embarrassment.  

Edited 22 May 2025 by Les-TA-Jon

[ClaphamFox]

I've just listened to Kieran Maguire's latest podcast. In it, he reiterates his belief that the PL cannot impose a points deduction on us next season. He reckons that the recent agreement between the PL and the EFL only allows for jurisdiction to be passed from one to the other if a club is promoted or relegated, but does not extend to allowing punishments to be imposed between the PL and EFL. In other words, according to Maguire, while the PL can gain jurisdiction over a club that breached in the Championship, it can only impose a sanction on that club while it is in the PL - ie, the points deduction cannot be passed back down.

 

This runs contrary to what the majority of the media has been reporting, but Maguire seems pretty certain about it. He reckons the PL is going after us now in an attempt to impose a points deduction on us this season and move us down 1-2 places, reducing our prize money and increasing that paid to Ipswich and/or Southampton.

Edited 22 May 2025 by ClaphamFox

[LFEFox23]

10 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

I've just listened to Kieran Maguire's latest podcast. In it, he reiterates his belief that the PL cannot impose a points deduction on us next season. He reckons that the recent agreement between the PL and the EFL only allows for jurisdiction to be passed from one to the other if a club is relegated, but does not extend to allowing punishments to be imposed between the PL and EFL. In other words, according to Maguire, while the PL can gain jurisdiction over a club that breached in the Championship, it can only impose a sanction on that club while it is in the PL - ie, the points deduction cannot be passed back down.

 

This runs contrary to what the majority of the media has been reporting, but Maguire seems pretty certain about it. He reckons the PL is going after us now in an attempt to impose a points deduction on us this season and move us down 1-2 places, reducing our prize money and increasing that paid to Ipswich and/or Southampton.

So we would have to be charged by the EFL for them to impose a points deduction next season? 

[lcfc_forever]

1 minute ago, LFEFox23 said:

So we would have to be charged by the EFL for them to impose a points deduction next season? 

No, not for 23/24 according to Maguire. They can only charge us for 24/25 - if they think we're going to break FFP rules, they can put a business plan on us earlier like they threatened to do in 2024. 

[ClaphamFox]

Just now, LFEFox23 said:

So we would have to be charged by the EFL for them to impose a points deduction next season? 

Yes, but the EFL now cannot charge us for the 23/24 period because the PL won its argument that it has jurisdiction over that period and has charged us. We can't be charged twice for the same season by the PL and the EFL. He did say that the EFL will be all over us like a rash next season and that we won't get away with refusing to submit our accounts in October like we did the last time we were in the Championship.

[Bluetintedspecs]

31 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Your pictures explain it. 

• PL didn't change anyone with PSR breaches in Jan 2025, including Leicester
• But they did say, regarding Leicester: "The matter remained "the subject of confidential arbitration proceedings" 
• So they wanted to charge us, but couldn't or didn't want to until those proceedings concluded - which was they did, resulting in the announcement on Tues.
• Part of that proceeding was determining whether (A) PL had jurisdiction over Leicester for PSR ending 23/24 and (B) the appeal of Leicester's appeal (loophole argument)
• PL was unsuccessful with B but successful with A - they probably didn't want to charge us with PSR breach in Jan 2025, until they knew the outcome of B - to avoid further embarrassment.  

Cheers for that 👍

My understanding is that the arbitration process  is a dispute resolution  process that can clear the waters moving forward, I'm not sure if they can retrospectively charge us for a period that has now passed its jurisdiction period? 🤷‍♂️

[katieakita]

Will run and run this, would be happy for anyone on here to supply evidence that the EPL have treated us just the same as they have Man City, Man Utd, Newcastle, Villa, Chelsea, Forest to name a few. Sadly know far too many people found guilty until they have proved their innocence and the EPL have found us guilty until found otherwise. This does not mean our club has not  done many things wrong and poorly but would like to see both sides being open and upfront and cannot help thinking some of our alledged wrongdoings are down to EPL failings to follow their own rules.

[Number 6]

53 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

I've just listened to Kieran Maguire's latest podcast. In it, he reiterates his belief that the PL cannot impose a points deduction on us next season. He reckons that the recent agreement between the PL and the EFL only allows for jurisdiction to be passed from one to the other if a club is relegated, but does not extend to allowing punishments to be imposed between the PL and EFL. In other words, according to Maguire, while the PL can gain jurisdiction over a club that breached in the Championship, it can only impose a sanction on that club while it is in the PL - ie, the points deduction cannot be passed back down.

 

This runs contrary to what the majority of the media has been reporting, but Maguire seems pretty certain about it. He reckons the PL is going after us now in an attempt to impose a points deduction on us this season and move us down 1-2 places, reducing our prize money and increasing that paid to Ipswich and/or Southampton.

I think this does logically make sense. Allowing transfer of jurisdiction and the then expedited process would mean any 23/24 punishments would be handed out THIS season. That seems fairer than clubs dropping in and out of leagues and potentially being hit by the punishment many years later.

 

The spanner in the works this time is the delay. If it weren't for the timescales I'd have thought a deduction which has us finish the season 19th would help all parties draw a line under it.

[Finnegan]

36 minutes ago, katieakita said:

EPL have treated us just the same as they have Man City, Man Utd, Newcastle, Villa, Chelsea, Forest to name a few.

 

I don't know why you've put Forest in there. They've had a points deduction already and the worst is yet to come for them. 

 

Villa are also going to have to start selling unless they rake in tidy CL revenue. Although it helps they have one of the best sporting directors in the world there, particularly for a club of their size. 

 

And Newcastle are selling their players to other clubs they own (an option also open to Forest btw) which for some reason we've not bothered trying.

 

As for the big six, the league don't need to treat them any differently to us because these rules were very specifically designed to keep the Other 14 from threatening the Big 6 having dominance over European qualification. The rules are working as intended. 

 

[Fox in the North]

2 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I don't know why you've put Forest in there. They've had a points deduction already and the worst is yet to come for them. 

 

Villa are also going to have to start selling unless they rake in tidy CL revenue. Although it helps they have one of the best sporting directors in the world there, particularly for a club of their size. 

 

And Newcastle are selling their players to other clubs they own (an option also open to Forest btw) which for some reason we've not bothered trying.

 

As for the big six, the league don't need to treat them any differently to us because these rules were very specifically designed to keep the Other 14 from threatening the Big 6 having dominance over European qualification. The rules are working as intended. 

 

It really upsets me that we were never in for him the moment his relationship with Sevilla started to end.

[katieakita]

7 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I don't know why you've put Forest in there. They've had a points deduction already and the worst is yet to come for them. 

 

Villa are also going to have to start selling unless they rake in tidy CL revenue. Although it helps they have one of the best sporting directors in the world there, particularly for a club of their size. 

 

And Newcastle are selling their players to other clubs they own (an option also open to Forest btw) which for some reason we've not bothered trying.

 

As for the big six, the league don't need to treat them any differently to us because these rules were very specifically designed to keep the Other 14 from threatening the Big 6 having dominance over European qualification. The rules are working as intended. 

 

Was under the impession Forest should have been held to account in our first relegation. The points deduction for Forest & Everton last season had apart from loss of prize money little impact. If we take a points hit this season apart from loss of prize money it is not that big a punishment going forward. My point is we have not been treated the same as others

[Lambert09]

1 hour ago, ClaphamFox said:

I've just listened to Kieran Maguire's latest podcast. In it, he reiterates his belief that the PL cannot impose a points deduction on us next season. He reckons that the recent agreement between the PL and the EFL only allows for jurisdiction to be passed from one to the other if a club is relegated, but does not extend to allowing punishments to be imposed between the PL and EFL. In other words, according to Maguire, while the PL can gain jurisdiction over a club that breached in the Championship, it can only impose a sanction on that club while it is in the PL - ie, the points deduction cannot be passed back down.

 

This runs contrary to what the majority of the media has been reporting, but Maguire seems pretty certain about it. He reckons the PL is going after us now in an attempt to impose a points deduction on us this season and move us down 1-2 places, reducing our prize money and increasing that paid to Ipswich and/or Southampton.

Best outcome for everyone, the league saves face. We get a punishment for mismanagement and the world can move on. 
 

 

[Les-TA-Jon]

45 minutes ago, katieakita said:

Was under the impession Forest should have been held to account in our first relegation. The points deduction for Forest & Everton last season had apart from loss of prize money little impact. If we take a points hit this season apart from loss of prize money it is not that big a punishment going forward. My point is we have not been treated the same as others

In pursuit of PSR rules, I'm not sure what evidence there is that we've been treated differently than anyone else? 

 

All clubs have been under the same rules the whole time. Everton and Forest got points deductions for breaching. Any clubs that are perceived to have been spending like crazy (Man City, Chelsea, Man Utd etc) have found a way of complying within the rules (selling hotels to themselves, selling women's teams to themselves etc). It's not 'right' but it isn't against the rules as written. And the other big spenders don't fall foul of the rules, because they have much higher revenues. 

 

We would have been charged for breaches by now too, but found and (rightly) exploited a loophole. The PL and EFL have (rightly) closed that loophole. We're still likely to have breached in other periods and they're now pursuing us for those. 

 

I don't get what the controversy is there? 

Edited 22 May 2025 by Les-TA-Jon

[Vlad the Fox]

So the rules brought in to stop unscrupulous owners saddling clubs with debt and running them into the ground just allow the epl and efl to run clubs into the ground instead.
 

 

(I know our owners are a shit show and have a lot to answer for, but the rules are an anti-competitive disgrace as other clubs daring to challenge the top are finding out too)

[katieakita]

20 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

In pursuit of PSR rules, I'm not sure what evidence there is that we've been treated differently than anyone else? 

 

All clubs have been under the same rules the whole time. Everton and Forest got points deductions for breaching. Any clubs that are perceived to have been spending like crazy (Man City, Chelsea, Man Utd etc) have found a way of complying within the rules (selling hotels to themselves, selling women's teams to themselves etc). It's not 'right' but it isn't against the rules as written. And the other big spenders don't fall foul of the rules, because they have much higher revenues. 

 

We would have been charged for breaches by now too, but found and (rightly) exploited a loophole. The PL and EFL have (rightly) closed that loophole. We're still likely to have breached in other periods and they're now pursuing us for those. 

 

I don't get what the controversy is there? 

Not sure Man City have been treated the same 115 or so charges suggests otherwise and all last summer we were on for a big points deduction until was it the last day of the transfer window  it was announced we were not getting a points deduction. The EPL would have seen our skeleton argument with this (loophole) and unless they were using Post Offices lawyers must have been aware we would be found not guilty. IMVHO will not believe this delay did not hurt our recruitment of a manager and players for this poor campaign.