Premier League has charged LCFC with an alleged breach of PSR

[Foxes1]

I hope we do get a points deduction it might wake some of the hierarchy up to the fact we are a badly run club now financially they may sit up and take notice but I doubt it 

[ClaphamFox]

6 minutes ago, Foxes1 said:

I hope we do get a points deduction it might wake some of the hierarchy up to the fact we are a badly run club now financially they may sit up and take notice but I doubt it 

They won't wake up. So we'd just be the same club with the same hierarchy, except with a points deduction. I don't see that as a win.

[lcfc_forever]

42 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

On Radio Leicester this morning Kieran Maguire said, very explicitly, that the PL can only impose a points deduction on us this season, effectively forcing us from 18th to 19th place - ie, they cannot force us to start next season with a points deduction. This contradicts what pretty much all media outlets were reporting yesterday. Now I really am confused...

Thanks for flagging this - for anyone interested, he's on from around 9.17am and as you say, there's no ambiguity on this - he thinks the punishment has to come this season. So the PL can't impose a points deduction for next season. 

 

But he does flag that the EFL could hit us as well next season but we won't know till December as it depends on our 24/25 results. I can imagine our summer transfer window we'll be having to recoup a lot more than purchasing to make sure we don't breach to reduce the possibility of EFL hitting us. 

[Stadt]

17 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I know it's easy to say in hindsight but I said this in the Ayew thread when we signed him, I'd rather we'd have just embraced relegation at the start of the season and done the complete opposite of getting "Premier League experience." We should have given up this year and just thought about the future. 

 

We shouldn't have signed anyone over 21. Buy a bunch of kids that'll improve in value, even if we sold half of them after one season when we get relegated. It's adding to the value of the squad and bringing in some money to soften the blow, any that stay, great that's next year sorted. 

 

The fact we brought in Skipp, Ayew, Reid and an extremely expensive Edouard loan and none of those people represent any chance of profit is just absolutely mind blowingly stupid for a club so close to the knife edge. 

 

Not only were those players obviously too crap to keep us up, they drag us further in to the PSR hole. 

 

Bilal was the right idea but he's just one guy and frankly wasn't THAT cheap. 

 

We halfway house everything. A) Build for the future like you've said, B) Go all out, spend big, take a deduction, balance some of the books with PSR swaps like Golding.

 

There was no discernible strategy there at all, we did neither of those things and we lumbered ourselves with crap experienced players that are somehow less suited to trying to go up.

 

 

[SafewayFox]

I can’t keep up with the 28 pages but who would have thought that a model consisting of paying Coady £70k per week in the Championship was a good idea?

 

We can blame the PL and EFL but we’re run by a bunch of inept clowns.

Edited 21 May 2025 by SafewayFox

[Pliskin]

53 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

On Radio Leicester this morning Kieran Maguire said, very explicitly, that the PL can only impose a points deduction on us this season, effectively forcing us from 18th to 19th place - ie, they cannot force us to start next season with a points deduction. This contradicts what pretty much all media outlets were reporting yesterday. Now I really am confused...

They’re charging us for the championship breaches are they not? 

[ClaphamFox]

1 minute ago, Pliskin said:

They’re charging us for the championship breaches are they not? 

Yes, but as that season falls within the PL's jurisdiction, the PL can only impose a punishment while we're in the PL - at least according to Maguire.

[HankMarvin]

10 minutes ago, lcfc_forever said:

Thanks for flagging this - for anyone interested, he's on from around 9.17am and as you say, there's no ambiguity on this - he thinks the punishment has to come this season. So the PL can't impose a points deduction for next season. 

 

But he does flag that the EFL could hit us as well next season but we won't know till December as it depends on our 24/25 results. I can imagine our summer transfer window we'll be having to recoup a lot more than purchasing to make sure we don't breach to reduce the possibility of EFL hitting us. 

Does he take into account the changes that were made last month?

 

It means a Prem commission will now rule on the punishment - but any points deduction imposed WILL be applied in the Championship

Clubs in both leagues agreed an alignment of financial rules last month as the “Leicester loophole” was closed.

 

[ClaphamFox]

Just now, HankMarvin said:

Does he take into account the changes that were made last month?

 

 

It means a Prem commission will now rule on the punishment - but any points deduction imposed WILL be applied in the Championship

Clubs in both leagues agreed an alignment of financial rules last month as the “Leicester loophole” was closed.

 

 

Can those changes made last month be applied retroactively? That seems to be the crux of the matter...

[Pliskin]

2 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

Yes, but as that season falls within the PL's jurisdiction, the PL can only impose a punishment while we're in the PL - at least according to Maguire.

It’s a mess isn’t it…. As I said, when does this stop being about justice, and start becoming a witch hunt? Regardless of what we’ve done with the finances. 
 

I think what may happen, is any deductions are deferred pending a return to the premier league? Or an independent panel will hopefully settle on a fine and no deductions due to jurisdictions…… it just seems plain farcical that they can change the rules and then have another bite……. That’s not how rules work, case law is born following cases collapsing, and the point of it is to learn from these mistakes and tighten the laws going forward so it doesn’t happen again. 
 

Would wouldn’t find someone not guilty in a court room due to a technicality, change the law, and then have another crack under the altered legislation…… it’s not a fair  and transparent process…. Neither is this. 
 

Regardless of what we’ve done and the potential breaches, it doesn’t seem proper to do what the EPL are doing, this has gone beyond seeking justice, this is now a pissing contest.

[Pliskin]

3 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

Can those changes made last month be applied retroactively? That seems to be the crux of the matter...

This just proves they’re making it up as they go along…..

[lcfc_forever]

13 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

Yes, but as that season falls within the PL's jurisdiction, the PL can only impose a punishment while we're in the PL - at least according to Maguire.

I wonder if this is why the club is now being so much more cooperative? They know this, and will then be focused on getting our house in order for 24/25? Maybe this is an overly optimistic way of thinking! 

 

I'm sure Maguire will have spoken to people before saying this, he's got a lot of sources close to this. 

[Terraloon]

18 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

They’re charging us for the championship breaches are they not? 

They are . 
 

14 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

Can those changes made last month be applied retroactively? That seems to be the crux of the matter...

That is it in a nutshell but we need to wait and see what the EFL now does because as sure as eggs are eggs this won’t be the end of the matter.

 

Dont be at all surprised if once LCFC becomes a member of the EFL again they take over the investigation.

 

What we have at the moment is the PL investigation of a PL club under EFL rules but once the share is transferred I believe there is a mechanism in place if both leagues agree to transfer it back to the EFL.

 

 

[The Year Of The Fox]

We’re the footballing version of Michael Carroll

Edited 21 May 2025 by The Year Of The Fox

[ClaphamFox]

1 minute ago, Terraloon said:

They are . 
 

That is it in a nutshell but we need to wait and see what the EFL now does because as sure as eggs are eggs this won’t be the end of the matter.

 

Dont be at all surprised if once LCFC becomes a member of the EFL again they take over the investigation.

 

What we have at the moment is the PL investigation of a PL club under EFL rules but once the share is transferred I believe there is a mechanism in place if both leagues agree to transfer it back to the EFL.

 

 

That mechanism exists now, but it didn't exist at the time we breached. So it goes back to the question of whether the rule change can be imposed retroactively...

[Pliskin]

1 minute ago, Terraloon said:

They are . 
 

That is it in a nutshell but we need to wait and see what the EFL now does because as sure as eggs are eggs this won’t be the end of the matter.

 

Dont be at all surprised if once LCFC becomes a member of the EFL again they take over the investigation.

 

What we have at the moment is the PL investigation of a PL club under EFL rules but once the share is transferred I believe there is a mechanism in place if both leagues agree to transfer it back to the EFL.

 

 

Literally makes no sense….. if you were an independent panel worth your salt surely you advise this just gets binned and move on…… this just proves there’s no set defined methodology to this process….. they’re literally just making things up to suit them…….

[Pliskin]

Just now, ClaphamFox said:

That mechanism exists now, but it didn't exist at the time we breached. So it goes back to the question of whether the rule change can be imposed retroactively...

Surely any retrospective punishment should be with fresh evidence, none of this is fresh, it’s stuff that’s already been scrutinised has it not? 

[dannythefox]

This is how I’m reading it. So the 3 charges against us happened under old rules now the prem and championship have come together to change the rules so it can’t happen again but now they want to charge us? I can’t see how they can charge us when the rules wasn’t in place at the time off the offence. 

[Chelmofox]

2 minutes ago, dannythefox said:

This is how I’m reading it. So the 3 charges against us happened under old rules now the prem and championship have come together to change the rules so it can’t happen again but now they want to charge us? I can’t see how they can charge us when the rules wasn’t in place at the time off the offence. 

Maybe i am a bit tinfoil hat about this, but i also feel that all parties are trying to draw a line under this. If (a big IF) a deduction is imposed this season and we comply with business plans etc for the EFL next season, then we have been sanctioned and everyone can move on.

 

Of course, we might still breach the next one, but if we work with the EFL on the plan for that then at least we are seen to be doing the right things.

[Merging Cultures]

1 hour ago, ClaphamFox said:

Sure, but IF Maguire is correct, that won't matter because, according to him, the PL cannot impose a points deduction while we're in the Championship. So they'd have to retrospectively move us down from 18th to 19th (assuming we finish in 18th) or, as @teblin says, wait until we're back in the PL...

From the PL handbook

 

Appendix 1:

Profitability and Sustainability Rules - Standard Directions

 

Introduction

1.These Standard Directions have been agreed by Clubs to ensure that any complaint regarding a breach of the Profitability and Sustainability Rules (Rules E.50 to E.55) (a “PSR Complaint”) can be resolved, including any appeal to an Appeal Board, as expeditiously as possible and, absent exceptional circumstances, prior to the 1 June following the submission of the relevant Club’s Annual Accounts (the “Backstop Date”).

 

2. The League and Clubs recognise and agree that, given the possibility of the imposition of a sporting sanction in the form of a points deduction on any Club found to be in breach of Rules E.50 to E.55 and the desirability (so as to protect the interests of other Clubs) of any such points deduction taking effect in the Season in which the relevant Club’s Annual Accounts are submitted, it is important that clarity is reached regarding any such sanction prior to the subsequent Annual General Meeting. This provides certainty for the League, its Member Clubs and other stakeholders as to the membership of the League in the subsequent Season.

 

Obviously there are clauses on how they can vary it etc. but it looks like we could argue to have it this year. However, I think the law regarding competitions etc will state that you can't change the rules of the competition after the effect. That's different to ex past facto law imo.

[Terraloon]

25 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Literally makes no sense….. if you were an independent panel worth your salt surely you advise this just gets binned and move on…… this just proves there’s no set defined methodology to this process….. they’re literally just making things up to suit them…….

The arbitration panel were in effect asked to rule on two issues points

 

 

1) Did the PL have jurisdiction for 22/23? If yes did the appeal panel , who ruled no, arrive at their decision by what can best be described as flawed assessment of the evidence .

The arbitration panel concluded that the PL did indeed have jurisdiction but the PLs request that the appeal be quashed  failed because they, the arbitrators didn’t believe that the appeal panel process and reasoning wasn’t valid just that they got it wrong!

2) The second point for consideration was did the PL have jurisdiction to charge LCFC for 23/24 when of course the club were in the EFL. This is key because they in effect agreed that the PL could indeed do so.

 

 

Edited 21 May 2025 by Terraloon

[Terraloon]

5 minutes ago, Merging Cultures said:

From the PL handbook

 

Appendix 1:

Profitability and Sustainability Rules - Standard Directions

 

Introduction

1.These Standard Directions have been agreed by Clubs to ensure that any complaint regarding a breach of the Profitability and Sustainability Rules (Rules E.50 to E.55) (a “PSR Complaint”) can be resolved, including any appeal to an Appeal Board, as expeditiously as possible and, absent exceptional circumstances, prior to the 1 June following the submission of the relevant Club’s Annual Accounts (the “Backstop Date”).

 

2. The League and Clubs recognise and agree that, given the possibility of the imposition of a sporting sanction in the form of a points deduction on any Club found to be in breach of Rules E.50 to E.55 and the desirability (so as to protect the interests of other Clubs) of any such points deduction taking effect in the Season in which the relevant Club’s Annual Accounts are submitted, it is important that clarity is reached regarding any such sanction prior to the subsequent Annual General Meeting. This provides certainty for the League, its Member Clubs and other stakeholders as to the membership of the League in the subsequent Season.

 

Obviously there are clauses on how they can vary it etc. but it looks like we could argue to have it this year. However, I think the law regarding competitions etc will state that you can't change the rules of the competition after the effect. That's different to ex past facto law imo.

It’s important to note there are 3 charges 

 

Two of the charges relate to LCFC failing to provide information and assist with matters in general these two are being pursued under PL rules. 
 

The third and perhaps key one is being investigated by the PL ( because the arbitration panels concluded says they could) but under EFL rules 

[dannythefox]

12 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

Maybe i am a bit tinfoil hat about this, but i also feel that all parties are trying to draw a line under this. If (a big IF) a deduction is imposed this season and we comply with business plans etc for the EFL next season, then we have been sanctioned and everyone can move on.

 

Of course, we might still breach the next one, but if we work with the EFL on the plan for that then at least we are seen to be doing the right things.

It would never be done on time this season it will probably take 6months 

[SemperEadem]

They posted so much yesterday trying to bury it.

[davieG]

Can't help but feel more comfortable with a points deduction rather than 'getting off.  Let's be honest we deserve to be punished

 

We've gone from the 'darlings' to the 'pariahs' of the football world. I'm wholly uncomfortable with that.