Premier League has charged LCFC with an alleged breach of PSR

[Chelmofox]

1 hour ago, LCFCJohn said:

Agreed. Someone said on here yesterday that we are unable to spend our way out of it but I disagree that is what we need. We need to reduce our costs. We can spend plenty, we just don’t spend it wisely.

 

Even if we had taken it seriously when we were relegated two years ago, none of the following would be here now;

 

Vestergaard

Coady

Skipp

Winks

Ndidi

Ayew

BDR

 

Obviously Ward and Vardy going as well. That’d be much of the cost reduced. You’d have a year left of Soumare and Daka from the 2021 spend. You’d have Faes and the January 2023 spend of VK and Souttar. I think Souttar will be a useful player for us and the other 4 with the length on their contracts will attract interest.

 

So like you, I struggle with sympathy for the club in the sense of where we are now, how much we have fallen and that it is still hanging over us in 2025!

 

Also agree that if we could spend as much as we wanted this would put the whole clubs future at risk as although we know PSR and FFP are to protect the big clubs, the official line being to protect clubs from going to the wall would apply to us under Aiyawatt in terms of an owner who would be incompetent enough to bankrupt us if left to his own devices.

That was me. I wasn't saying we should spend our way out of trouble, I was saying that PSR was a noose around our heads to even try and address recruitment mistakes.  If a business makes recruitment mistakes, sometimes they need investment and a period of (focussed) losses to turn the ship around - this just happens at crazy scale in football due to the horrible wages paid. 

 

We (stupidly) went through a phase of paying players the wages of their potential, rather than what they were worth when we bought them. This probably happened because bigger clubs were sniffing around, and i am sure Brendan had a big part to play in it as well (wasn't his great quote about fixing rough diamonds?).    If we had bought Mbeumo we would have put him on a 80k a week deal, where as Brentford were able to pay him far less and be that feeder club. What we did with Daka's deal, only to try and change him and barely play him was unbelieveable. 

 

Whilst i have no sympathy for the club with how they got there, i do feel aggrieved that the big 6 can dispose of high earners that haven't worked out. There are a lot of players in that upper tier who are overpaid and not providing value for money. We see how Chelsea have done it and Man U's recruitment is disgusting. Even Spurs stinking out the bottom 4 with massive wages and fees.  If we could have dumped Daka and Soumare for a PSR loss, then is likely (i know - but doubtful) that the process to deal with our wages issue could have happened sooner. As things stand, high earners stay on the books and anyway we try and recruit can point there fingers at that and say 'you want me, i need a deal like that'.

[Chelmofox]

15 hours ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

Yet.

 

The point here is, clubs of this size and type are only one or two bad decisions away from being in the shit and once you’re in it, there seemingly isn’t a way out.

 

In 2-3 years, people will be saying about Brighton, Brentford, Bournemouth etc what they’re now saying about us.

 

The ownership and senior board are woefully inadequate, but let’s not pretend this fate doesnt await other clubs.

It will only happen to them if they pay high fees and wages. I think these 3 clubs steer clear of that, although its possible for any of them to veer away from their models if they start to panic. I think Forest, Villa and Palace are clubs that pay significant wages and are a few mistakes away from getting stung. 

[BillyFOX12]

They can **** off. We're innocent.

[Crinklyfox]

Football clubs are businesses.  In the wider business world PSR would not be allowed to exist.  Like other businesses, football clubs have historically prospered and declined.  Small clubs have gone on the become larger clubs, and some larger clubs have fallen on hard times and declined.  Unless a business has an absolutely fabulous product, or has a lot of luck, in order to grow it needs investment and has to take business risk.  This is a commercial activity which is not centrally restricted.  

 

PSR effectively limits business risk,  if a club does invest significantly with the aim of achieving success it risks being penalised by its governing body.  This effectively prevents smaller clubs from growing and preserves the status quo.  It is probably only the situation that clubs are required to sign up to this restriction that prevents it being outlawed as a non-competitive practice.

 

In my view PSR is a sickness in our sport and should go,  Bring by the days when a fan of any small club could dream of it achieving the heights of success.

[Grebfromgrebland]

We also need to consider that PSR meant that we got 2 crap managers in a row in too with Cooper and Ruud.

 

We didn't get full back room staff in either.

[davieG]

12 hours ago, The_77 said:

To placate the rich 6 and keep them from being tempted away by a Super League. 

Them joining a Super League would have no immediate direct impact on the PL . The Super League is all about replacing EUFA Champions League competition. 

[Bluearmyfox28]

In terms of 3 year cycles for PSR, when do those stupid years of losses come off the books? Is it this year?

[Guest Bilo]

4 minutes ago, Bluearmyfox28 said:

In terms of 3 year cycles for PSR, when do those stupid years of losses come off the books? Is it this year?

The worst one, the 21-22 cycle, is not longer on our books after this month. The 22-23 one wasn't much better, and we have to wait another year for that.

[Bluearmyfox28]

15 minutes ago, Bilo said:

The worst one, the 21-22 cycle, is not longer on our books after this month. The 22-23 one wasn't much better, and we have to wait another year for that.

Is there anywhere I can see these cycles and total amounts? 
 

but essentially from next year (26-27) onwards it should balance out a bit?

Edited 9 June 2025 by Bluearmyfox28

[urban.spaceman]

3 hours ago, davieG said:

Them joining a Super League would have no immediate direct impact on the PL . The Super League is all about replacing EUFA Champions League competition. 

It would increase their wealth and power exponentially. Competition would be even more impossible than it already is. Clubs outside the Super League would go bankrupt. 

[urban.spaceman]

15 minutes ago, Bilo said:

The worst one, the 21-22 cycle, is not longer on our books after this month. The 22-23 one wasn't much better, and we have to wait another year for that.

Neither league can touch us for 22/23.

[davieG]

7 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

It would increase their wealth and power exponentially. Competition would be even more impossible than it already is. Clubs outside the Super League would go bankrupt. 

Of course but it doesn't relate to or give justification for the other PL clubs kowtowing to them in the PL which was my point.

[urban.spaceman]

17 minutes ago, Bluearmyfox28 said:

Is there anywhere I can see these cycles and total amounts? 
 

but essentially from next year (26-27) onwards it should balance out a bit?

Plenty of good resources like Keiran Maguire and Swiss Ramble; sadly they're on twitter so make sure you wear a hazmat suit when you go looking for them. 

 

Alternatively ChatGPT or Perplexity are quite good for finding them instantly.

[Chrysalis]

On 08/06/2025 at 10:13, Corky said:

This is fully on us. We appointed two managers on three year contracts within six months, neither of whom were the right fit or good enough. We obviously didn't put clauses in to save money when we wanted to move them on.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I am sitting here thinking what is stopping them putting Ruud on gardening leave and setting the new manager start date after the new PSR window?

You either go very cheap on the wages or do a short term contract, even if its a rolling 12 month deal.

[Chrysalis]

On 08/06/2025 at 11:12, Claudio Fannieri said:

I agree the rules are farcical. However the rules didn’t force us to appoint Cooper or RVN or spaff millions on shite like Skipp, Ayew, BDCR & Eduaord. The rules are frustrating and definitely in place to protect the big six but let’s not kid ourselves we have been masters of our own downfall with clueless decision making that has had catastrophic consequences to our club. 

Ayew funny enough feels like one of the more sensible signings, not explosive fee or wages.
I am looking at it now purely on the financial side of it, Winks, Coady wages when they were signed in the EFL e.g. absolutely ludicrous contracts to give out.

[The_77]

7 hours ago, davieG said:

Them joining a Super League would have no immediate direct impact on the PL . The Super League is all about replacing EUFA Champions League competition. 

You might believe that to be the case but the Premier League and the rest of its member clubs did not, and they decided it was better to placate those clubs and not take that chance. 

[Ric Flair]

4 hours ago, Bilo said:

The worst one, the 21-22 cycle, is not longer on our books after this month. The 22-23 one wasn't much better, and we have to wait another year for that.

Whilst they are dropping off, the total amount of losses for the 3 year cycles is reducing too. For 25/26 it'll be down to £61m and then if we don't go back up then 26/27 will be just £39m.

[orangecity23]

Based on pure guesswork, but last season's accounts surely can't be great either I'd have thought - no sales bar Cannon (KDH was in the previous years accounts), lots of expenditure on new signings and a managerial payoff included, plus crap league money as we finished so low.

Edited 9 June 2025 by orangecity23

[Lad1966]

13 minutes ago, orangecity23 said:

Based on pure guesswork, but last season's accounts surely can't be great either I'd have thought - no sales bar Cannon (KDH was in the previous years accounts), lots of expenditure on new signings and a managerial payoff included, plus crap league money as we finished so low.

I think you can include the sale of Barnes and castanaga (sorry for the spelling) in that period

[Ric Flair]

2 hours ago, Lad1966 said:

I think you can include the sale of Barnes and castanaga (sorry for the spelling) in that period

He means 2024/25 which still has the rest of June to go. I'd be surprised if we don't need a big sale/s this month.

[orangecity23]

Yeah, I was referring to 2024/25, shouldn't have said last season, I guess we are in the weird no mans land where that phrase could mean one of two possible years. 

[coolhandfox]

47 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

He means 2024/25 which still has the rest of June to go. I'd be surprised if we don't need a big sale/s this month.

We should just do a Chelsea and sell the training ground to KP or the women's team.

[Ric Flair]

14 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

We should just do a Chelsea and sell the training ground to KP or the women's team.

We may have missed the boat on that given we are officially an EFL team again and they don't recognise/allows such maneuvers. 

[Jattdogg]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

We may have missed the boat on that given we are officially an EFL team again and they don't recognise/allows such maneuvers. 

Out-fuked ourselves, deserve pats on the back!

[Terraloon]

21 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

Neither league can touch us for 22/23.

I think we need to wait for just a little while yet till we can claim that with any authority.

 

The PL arbitration panel ruled that in their opinion the PL did, for 22/23  have jurisdiction but they didn’t have the authority to overturn the appeal panels ruling that they didn’t.

 

That ruling cleared the way for the PL to bring charges for 23/24 which they have now done but the ruling re 22/23 can not be overturned. Bear in mind that means that Cities arguments that at the end of the 22/23 financial accounting year the club wasn’t a PL club and that the club was a EFL club.

 

Put all that together and it is possible that the appeal panel’s incorrect interpretation will be relied on to enable the EFL to bring charges for 22/23 .

 

Will charges be forthcoming? Far from sure any will but fear  that the PL arbitration ruling may well facilitate action by the EFL