General News Thread

[l444ry]

Sam Allardyce has now been appointed as the President of Venezuela until the end of the season. 

Edited 5 January by l444ry

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, danny. said:

 

 

it’s not anti US it’s any any republican president and especially Trump.

 

 

53 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Generally speaking, that is true.

 

If it were a Democrat, they‘d all be either showering him with praise or be looking the other way.

 

UK and (Western) European media is on the whole rather left-leaning, and they are naive to think the Democrats are their „allies“ and/or any better than the Republicans.

 

Just look at crooks such as Nancy Pelosi or Tim Waltz. Or why Ilhan Omar‘s wealth/net worth suddenly skyrocketed within one single year.

Not much coverage on that.

Once again I have to ask; what is the specific point being driven at here?

 

 

29 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Last time I checked neither Badenoch or Farage were our PM? I stated our PM lacks leadership - nothing to do with the other two. 

Fair, but it might be nice to acknowledge such things while at the same time considering the best way not to jump from the frying pan into the fire on this one. 

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, danny. said:

Ok then? What would be the issue with that?

 

What's the issue with blatant coercion of a sovereign nation into giving up its territory because you want it and you have the power to bully them into taking it?

[leicsmac]

On the above:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g0zg974v1o

 

Donald Trump has again proposed annexing Greenland, after Denmark's leader urged him to "stop the threats" over the island.

Speaking to reporters, the US president said "we need Greenland from the standpoint of national security".

Trump has repeatedly raised the prospect of the semi-autonomous Danish territory becoming an annexed part of the US, citing its strategic location for defence purposes and mineral wealth.

Greenland's Prime Minister Jens Frederik Nielsen responded by saying "that's enough now" and described the notion of US control over the island as a "fantasy".

He said: "No more pressure. No more insinuations. No more fantasies of annexation. We are open to dialogue. We are open to discussions. But this must happen through the proper channels and with respect for international law."

[danny.]

13 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

 

Once again I have to ask; what is the specific point being driven at here?

 

 

Fair, but it might be nice to acknowledge such things while at the same time considering the best way not to jump from the frying pan into the fire on this one. 

Thought it was obvious, but the point is broadly that leftists will be against anything a Republican does, especially against anything Trump does. As an example I have a leftist mate who was appalled at deportations under Trump and ranting about this, but when I pointed out that Obama deported far more per year and in total he fell silent and then said it must have been different mumble mumble and then changed the subject. His outrage was not at deportations but against Trump.

 

 

8 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

What's the issue with blatant coercion of a sovereign nation into giving up its territory because you want it and you have the power to bully them into taking it?

He said they would offer a deal. So that's a straw man fallacy and no point replying because that isn't what my reply was to.

 

7 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

On the above:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g0zg974v1o

 

Donald Trump has again proposed annexing Greenland, after Denmark's leader urged him to "stop the threats" over the island.

Speaking to reporters, the US president said "we need Greenland from the standpoint of national security".

Trump has repeatedly raised the prospect of the semi-autonomous Danish territory becoming an annexed part of the US, citing its strategic location for defence purposes and mineral wealth.

Greenland's Prime Minister Jens Frederik Nielsen responded by saying "that's enough now" and described the notion of US control over the island as a "fantasy".

He said: "No more pressure. No more insinuations. No more fantasies of annexation. We are open to dialogue. We are open to discussions. But this must happen through the proper channels and with respect for international law."

Headline - "Donald Trump has again proposed annexing Greenland"

Article - "Speaking to reporters, the US president said "we need Greenland from the standpoint of national security".

Denmark - "We are open to dialogue. We are open to discussions. But this must happen through the proper channels and with respect for international law."

According to leftist logic if I say I need a bigger car and am planning to buy one from my neighbour who is open to negotiations I'm already invading and stealing the car.

Edited 5 January by danny.

[MC Prussian]

17 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

What's the issue with blatant coercion of a sovereign nation into giving up its territory because you want it and you have the power to bully them into taking it?

You mean talks of „taking control“? So far, with regards to Greenland, it‘s only talks. When has the Trump government ever said anything about an „annexation“? As far as I can tell, „our“ media is putting words in his mouth.

 

Also, the US have had plans of buying the land since the end of WWII. Bothered hardly anyone.

 

For decades, Europe couldn‘t give two ffs about a practically completely iced-over island closer to North America than it is to us. Why should we care now?

Edited 5 January by MC Prussian

[Trav Le Bleu]

2 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

UK and (Western) European media is on the whole rather left-leaning,

Definitely not true of UK media. A couple more of left leaning newspapers, the rest centre to right. On TV even less.

[MC Prussian]

2 hours ago, danny. said:

Comparing Russia with Venezuela is wild 

As is comparing Venezuela to Afghanistan. Clearly two countries that share the same values.

 

Or mentioning Trump and Hitler in the same sentence.

Such a pansy move. Everything right to the (far) left is now easily called "Hitler" or "fascism".

It also acts as an excuse to further deny any (constructive) conversation. Just apply a label, that's it.

 

People clearly lack the historical context nowadays. If only they knew what fascism really looks like – or communism, for that matter.

Edited 5 January by MC Prussian

[Trav Le Bleu]

59 minutes ago, danny. said:

Thought it was obvious, but the point is broadly that leftists will be against anything a Republican does, especially against anything Trump does. As an example I have a leftist mate who was appalled at deportations under Trump and ranting about this, but when I pointed out that Obama deported far more per year and in total he fell silent and then said it must have been different mumble mumble and then changed the subject. His outrage was not at deportations but against Trump.

 

 

He said they would offer a deal. So that's a straw man fallacy and no point replying because that isn't what my reply was to.

 

Headline - "Donald Trump has again proposed annexing Greenland"

Article - "Speaking to reporters, the US president said "we need Greenland from the standpoint of national security".

Denmark - "We are open to dialogue. We are open to discussions. But this must happen through the proper channels and with respect for international law."

According to leftist logic if I say I need a bigger car and am planning to buy one from my neighbour who is open to negotiations I'm already invading and stealing the car.

Your neighbour is never going to sell it for a price you're willing to pay, but you're bigger than him so... (Avericiously eyes car).

[bovril]

4 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

As is comparing Venezuela to Afghanistan. Clearly two countries that share the same values.

 

Or mentioning Trump and Hitler in the same sentence.

Such a pansy move. Everything right to the (far) left is now easily called "Hitler" or "fascism".

It also acts as an excuse to further deny any (constructive) conversation. Just apply a label, that's it.

 

People clearly lack the historical context nowadays. If only they knew what fascism really looks like – or communism, for that matter.

I think I have a pretty good knowledge of the history of fascism and MAGAism shares many characteristics. Some MAGAists are quite open about it, I feel like they'd be disappointed you undersell them. 

Edited 5 January by bovril

[Trav Le Bleu]

1 hour ago, danny. said:

Couldn’t resist

 

It's funny cos they spelled centre wrong

 

 

 

[MC Prussian]

8 minutes ago, bovril said:

I think I have a pretty good knowledge of the history of fascism and MAGAism shares many characteristics. Some MAGAists are quite open about it, I feel like they'd be disappointed you undersell them. 

That's great for you, but that wasn't my point.

 

I detect a distinctive lack in general education these days. What exactly are they teaching at public schools?

 

And just because some MAGAists favour fascism, doesn't mean the entire Republican party does. You'd be surprised at how many Democrats share MAGA sentiments, but can't talk openly about it.

Edited 5 January by MC Prussian

[Trav Le Bleu]

35 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

That's great for you, but that wasn't my point.

 

I detect a distinctive lack in general education these days. What exactly are they teaching at public schools?

 

And just because some MAGAists favour fascism, doesn't mean the entire Republican party does. You'd be surprised at how many Democrats share MAGA sentiments, but can't talk openly about it.

This is a notable characteristic of the last election. Lots of people voted Republican for the first time and have never really had traditional Republican values, but voted for Trump, not the Republican party (though, by default, of course they did.)

 

Whilst I don't like to use Hitler comparisons, since it's what's being discussed, it can be said this would be something in common with AH..

 

On the patriotic wave of making their country great again, many otherwise sensible Germans turned a blind eye to the hard reality of Nazism.

Surely that nice Mr Hitler, who was doing so much good for the country, wouldn't be doing these things. It was just jealousy stoking these stories 

 

DT has got a way to go before being a fascist, but he's moving ever closer.

Edited 5 January by Trav Le Bleu

[CornwallFox]

1 hour ago, MC Prussian said:

You mean talks of „taking control“? So far, with regards to Greenland, it‘s only talks. When has the Trump government ever said anything about an „annexation“? As far as I can tell, „our“ media is putting words in his mouth.

 

Also, the US have had plans of buying the land since the end of WWII. Bothered hardly anyone.

 

For decades, Europe couldn‘t give two ffs about a practically completely iced-over island closer to North America than it is to us. Why should we care now?

Is this a joke? Denmark is a friendly NATO member. Denmark and Greenland have been very clear they gave no intention to give Greenland to the US yet still Trump talks about the US needing it, directly refusing to say this couldn't occur militarily. The reason democrats don't get criticized for this sort of nonsense it's that they don't engage in this sort of nonsense. 

 

You've mentioned UK media being left wing, it's not remotely. You've got the guardian and sometimes the mirror which lean left. Independent is centrist. The rest are all right wing (telegraph, express, mail, sun etc). The right wing papers above are all in hoc with the republicans and criticise the democrats.

 

When it comes to TV, there's a requirement for neutrality which holds for most channels which are actively centrist - they have Corbyn as good a kicking as Boris - except for GB news which seems to get away with being massively one way. The reason trump makes headlines on neutral channels is because he operates so outside the norms and conventions we're used to. Plus, he does and says really daft things, lying constantly in the process.

 

 

[Sly]

52 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

As is comparing Venezuela to Afghanistan. Clearly two countries that share the same values.

 

Or mentioning Trump and Hitler in the same sentence.

Such a pansy move. Everything right to the (far) left is now easily called "Hitler" or "fascism".

It also acts as an excuse to further deny any (constructive) conversation. Just apply a label, that's it.

 

People clearly lack the historical context nowadays. If only they knew what fascism really looks like – or communism, for that matter.

Hold on here, I was more referring to an example

of running roughshot over a country then leaving it in a mess.
 

Clearly Afghanistan and Venezuela are significantly different culturally. However if you allow mob rule it will collapse and become a mess. 
 

No different from a seagull coming in to **** on everything, steal Food then leaving. 
 

What has happened so far is the current president of Venezuela has basically been kidnapped after the US infiltrated foreign soil. Now, I don’t think it’s fair to call that an invasion personally as it’s clearly a strategic move, be it for the “drugs trafficking” as currently mentioned, or to increase US resources (whilst improving the country itself), by tapping into the vast natural resources that the country has. I’d imagine the world has far worse dictators than Venezuela! 
 

Trump is largely unpredictable and nothing is off the table in terms of force. Do I think he’ll roll into Greenland, “no”. I think he’s using it as propaganda to allow a movement to purchase it if I’m honest. I sort of semi agree it’s better off independent, or rather associated with the US from a logistics point of view. Then again, culturally it’s different. Then again, so is Alaska to New York, to Texas. 

[danny.]

5 minutes ago, CornwallFox said:

Denmark and Greenland have been very clear they gave no intention to give Greenland to the US

Greenland Prime Minister Jens Frederik Nielsen as reported by the BBC: "We are open to dialogue. We are open to discussions."

[danny.]

5 minutes ago, Sly said:

Hold on here, I was more referring to an example

of running roughshot over a country then leaving it in a mess.

Like Obama did in Libya? Or like when Biden chaotically withdrew from Afghanistan leaving the it to the Taliban? 

[leicsmac]

57 minutes ago, danny. said:

Thought it was obvious, but the point is broadly that leftists will be against anything a Republican does, especially against anything Trump does. As an example I have a leftist mate who was appalled at deportations under Trump and ranting about this, but when I pointed out that Obama deported far more per year and in total he fell silent and then said it must have been different mumble mumble and then changed the subject. His outrage was not at deportations but against Trump.

 

Ah, fair enough, a standard Appeal to Hypocrisy then. 

 

There's no disagreement from me on where the two American parties lie in terms of that policy area (apart from the manner in which it is being done), my own personal ire tends to veer towards other policy areas and general ethos and attitude there.

 

1 hour ago, danny. said:

 

He said they would offer a deal. So that's a straw man fallacy and no point replying because that isn't what my reply was to. 

The OP mentioned "an offer they literally cannot refuse". That for me rather obviously implies coercion and anyone familiar with the man knows that coercion is the way Trump mostly operates, so pardon if that conclusion wasn't immediately apparent in reasoning. 

 

1 hour ago, danny. said:

Headline - "Donald Trump has again proposed annexing Greenland"

Article - "Speaking to reporters, the US president said "we need Greenland from the standpoint of national security".

Denmark - "We are open to dialogue. We are open to discussions. But this must happen through the proper channels and with respect for international law."

According to leftist logic if I say I need a bigger car and am planning to buy one from my neighbour who is open to negotiations I'm already invading and stealing the car.

Except to continue this analogy in this case you want that car no matter what the neighbour says about it and have no intention of going through official buying and selling channels for it, so everyone thinks, rightly, that's there's a good possibility you will try to steal the car if you can't buy it for the price you want it to be. 

[leicsmac]

2 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

You mean talks of „taking control“? So far, with regards to Greenland, it‘s only talks. When has the Trump government ever said anything about an „annexation“? As far as I can tell, „our“ media is putting words in his mouth.

Given past actions and attitudes recently and otherwise, I'm not sure where this highly charitable interpretation of what the man is saying is coming from. 

 

2 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

 

Also, the US have had plans of buying the land since the end of WWII. Bothered hardly anyone.

 

If this is true, perhaps one might wonder why the international community are making a noise about it all now then. 

 

Could the common factor be in fact the current incumbent of the White House and the way he is acting, rather than them all getting aerated for no legit reason?

 

2 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

 

For decades, Europe couldn‘t give two ffs about a practically completely iced-over island closer to North America than it is to us. Why should we care now?

Perhaps because it's the year 2026 and it's about time humanity moved past the ridiculous and destructive idea of nationalism and spheres of influence, where the "powerful" do as they like with no consequence and the "powerless" do what they must. 

 

Perhaps it's time to stop being pathogens in sharp suits, knowing and being no better than mindless self interest. And also time to stop apologising for supposed human beings who act like the aforementioned pathogens in sharp suits.

[CornwallFox]

1 hour ago, danny. said:

Greenland Prime Minister Jens Frederik Nielsen as reported by the BBC: "We are open to dialogue. We are open to discussions."

Also:

 

Greenland's Prime Minister Jens Frederik Nielsen responded by saying "that's enough now" and described the notion of US control over the island as a "fantasy".

 

He said: "No more pressure. No more insinuations. No more fantasies of annexation. We are open to dialogue. We are open to discussions. But this must happen through the proper channels and with respect for international law."

 

Earlier, Denmark's Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen had said "the US has no right to annex any of the three nations in the Danish kingdom".

 

Frederiksen added that Denmark "and thus Greenland" was a Nato member and covered by the alliance's security guarantee, and said a defence agreement granting the US access to the island was already in place.

 

Your pretence that this is all normal diplomacy is a bit laughable, let's be honest.

[Jattdogg]

USA can lick a sweaty batty crease.

 

Thank you for your attention on this matter.

[Samilktray]

Just drop a big bomb on America and be done with them. Just pure sick of the place tbqh

[Zear0]

35 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

Just drop a big bomb on America and be done with them. Just pure sick of the place tbqh

Too moderate a response, need to hit them where it hurts. Seize all of Trump's golf courses over here. 

[danny.]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

Ah, fair enough, a standard Appeal to Hypocrisy then. 

If I was defending Trump or a supporter of him, sure, but I'm not and wasn't, I'm just a centrist pointing out selective outrage and double standards in partisan politics.

[danny.]

1 hour ago, CornwallFox said:

Your pretence that this is all normal diplomacy is a bit laughable, let's be honest.

I never said it's normal diplomacy, but also Greenland haven't said what you claimed.

 

I think Trump talks nonsense 90% of the time, but I also think that the left exaggerate and catastrophise anything he does when most of the time it's just Trump being Trump.