General News Thread

[danny.]

19 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Yep, perhaps one day accountability when one of those guns is used will be part of it too. 

 

And the issue right now is that particular culture isn't considering itself equal (which an argument could be made for), but superior, and choosing to make it everyone's problem. 

So the gun culture is a problem because the culture that has that gun culture considers itself superior but is in fact equal. If they considered themself equal it would be fine and a culture of police executing citizens without a trial is equal to all other cultures still. Got it. 

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, danny. said:

So the gun culture is a problem because the culture that has that gun culture considers itself superior but is in fact equal. If they considered themself equal it would be fine and a culture of police executing citizens without a trial is equal to all other cultures still. Got it. 

Aren't paradoxes wonderful? 

 

To add to this, I would state that a culture that relies on the ideas stated here is always going to consider itself superior and therefore be a problem until such ideas are addressed, but ones mileage will vary on that.

 

But if you want to keep picking holes, feel free, but for me it's an obvious fact that belief in cultural superiority, and the willingness to apply it through various methods, is a big reason why so much why there is so much suffering in the world, why there has been since time immemorial, and why there will be more to come. 

[danny.]

Just now, leicsmac said:

Aren't paradoxes wonderful? 

 

To add to this, I would state that a culture that relies on the ideas stated here is always going to consider itself superior and therefore be a problem until such ideas are addressed, but ones mileage will vary on that.

 

But if you want to keep picking holes, feel free, but for me it's an obvious fact that belief in cultural superiority, and the willingness to apply it through various methods, is a big reason why so much why there is so much suffering in the world, why there has been since time immemorial, and why there will be more to come. 

Fortunately I don’t think all cultures are equal so no paradoxes or constant mental gymnastics for me, but it must be tricky trying to work around the cognitive dissonance. 

[leicsmac]

12 minutes ago, danny. said:

Fortunately I don’t think all cultures are equal so no paradoxes or constant mental gymnastics for me, but it must be tricky trying to work around the cognitive dissonance. 

It is. 

 

I wonder how tricky the similar cognitive dissonance is regarding knowing but still denying that such beliefs in cultural inequality, when applied, only end one way for our species.

 

But that's humans for you, I guess. We all have our crosses to bear, apparently. 

[Salisbury Fox]

2 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Couldnt they have just shot her tyres out ??

I’ve not seen the video but it’s not common practice to shoot tyres out as it’s generally not as easy as it appears in the movies. Also there’s a high risk of ricochets which could lead to bystanders getting injured.

[CornwallFox]

49 minutes ago, danny. said:

Fortunately I don’t think all cultures are equal so no paradoxes or constant mental gymnastics for me, but it must be tricky trying to work around the cognitive dissonance. 

Personally, culture can't be measured. No culture is inherently better or worse, they're all just different. With western values you can look at some culture's treatment of women and complain, but you have to forget about our own historic treatment of women. Other cultures might point towards our economic system and willingness to treat the poor like scum (the way the homeless are treated or how benefit recipients are talked about). Our historic links to all sorts of bad things exist, we don't live in a bubble. Cultures are just different. You can't measure them. You look at other cultures through the lens of your own. 

[CornwallFox]

So couple of things said and done by the trump administration that I actually agree with: 

- trump has declared war on corporate landlordism and home ownership

- RFK has changed food safety advice to say that whole foods etc should be eaten and that added sugar is bad. Very obviously correct and kinda amazing America is recognising it.

[Tommy G]

7 minutes ago, CornwallFox said:

Personally, culture can't be measured. No culture is inherently better or worse, they're all just different. With western values you can look at some culture's treatment of women and complain, but you have to forget about our own historic treatment of women. Other cultures might point towards our economic system and willingness to treat the poor like scum (the way the homeless are treated or how benefit recipients are talked about). Our historic links to all sorts of bad things exist, we don't live in a bubble. Cultures are just different. You can't measure them. You look at other cultures through the lens of your own. 

Yeh but you can look at other cultures and complain quite rightly, especially how some cultures treat women and their rights (or lack of) and we can't just ignore that because our own culture in 1886 was backwards, we're in 2026 now and we need to look at what is in front of us. 

[Tommy G]

7 minutes ago, CornwallFox said:

So couple of things said and done by the trump administration that I actually agree with: 

- trump has declared war on corporate landlordism and home ownership

- RFK has changed food safety advice to say that whole foods etc should be eaten and that added sugar is bad. Very obviously correct and kinda amazing America is recognising it.

Finally - there will be some huge US corporations that won't be particularly happy with this  if you've been round a supermarket in the US you realise it's almost impossible to find proper food in a suitable quantity. 

[Trav Le Bleu]

2 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Couldnt they have just shot her tyres out ??

 

2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Or any one of a great many other possible solutions, yes.

Isn't this an urban myth? You need a high powered gun and special ammo I think.

[Greg2607]

9 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Yeh but you can look at other cultures and complain quite rightly, especially how some cultures treat women and their rights (or lack of) and we can't just ignore that because our own culture in 1886 was backwards, we're in 2026 now and we need to look at what is in front of us. 

You have read the "birds you fancy off the telly" thread right?? 

[kenny]

12 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

 

Isn't this an urban myth? You need a high powered gun and special ammo I think.

We had all this complete nonsense in the Chris kaba case.

[leicsmac]

38 minutes ago, CornwallFox said:

Personally, culture can't be measured. No culture is inherently better or worse, they're all just different. With western values you can look at some culture's treatment of women and complain, but you have to forget about our own historic treatment of women. Other cultures might point towards our economic system and willingness to treat the poor like scum (the way the homeless are treated or how benefit recipients are talked about). Our historic links to all sorts of bad things exist, we don't live in a bubble. Cultures are just different. You can't measure them. You look at other cultures through the lens of your own. 

Right. Such a viewpoint is always going to be subjective and therefore potentially flawed. 

 

And, once again, a lot of people believing that they view it objectively and acting on that belief is demonstrably dangerous and harmful. 

[leicsmac]

22 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

 

Isn't this an urban myth? You need a high powered gun and special ammo I think.

 

10 minutes ago, kenny said:

We had all this complete nonsense in the Chris kaba case.

Appreciate the clarification. 

 

One of the many other things that could have been done before shooting her in the face probably should have been done, then. 

[Tommy G]

38 minutes ago, Greg2607 said:

You have read the "birds you fancy off the telly" thread right?? 

I've contributed well to that thread, there's been some absolute shockers!

 

I think jokes aside we can separate a thread on a forum compared to say how women are treated in Syria, Saudi, Iran, Iraq etc

[bovril]

5 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

I've contributed well to that thread, there's been some absolute shockers!

 

I think jokes aside we can separate a thread on a forum compared to say how women are treated in Syria, Saudi, Iran, Iraq etc

People in Iran might say things are worse in England reading the news...

[Kitchandro]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

It is. 

 

I wonder how tricky the similar cognitive dissonance is regarding knowing but still denying that such beliefs in cultural inequality, when applied, only end one way for our species.

 

But that's humans for you, I guess. We all have our crosses to bear, apparently. 

Culture is not just national or religious, and culture is not nature. You’re (justifiably) criticising online culture, for example, because people choose to actively engage in certain behaviours.

 

There is an obvious political culture in the US for example and to suggest that MAGA culture should be considered equal to, let’s say the genuine left-wing culture, is obviously false. One is built on control and greed, the other is, despite any flaws the culture might have, built on the idea of freedoms and equality. Patriarchal culture is another clearly negative example.

 

Frankly, I don’t think much to British culture but you’d be hard pressed to argue American culture is not worse (a more extreme version of all the negatives) in almost every single aspect. That’s not a judgement of individual people, and frankly even a lot of Americans (the decent ones) would agree with me. I’d argue it’s often silly to say that a culture is purely bad - you can criticise one without saying it’s all bad. But objectively people are better off living in certain cultures rather than others because there are physical and tangible consequences for it.

 

Back to the subject at hand, no one can defend this callous killing and anyone who’s seen the video, heard the several eyewitness accounts from locals and is still seriously suggesting there might be some justification for what this essentially Gestapo agent did should hang their head in shame.

Edited 8 January by Kitchandro

[kenny]

32 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

 

Appreciate the clarification. 

 

One of the many other things that could have been done before shooting her in the face probably should have been done, then. 

Ive not seen the video, so can't comment directly.

 

But what you can't do, is hold down R2 on the controller, zoom in using your super-sense skill and take out the spark plugs in the engine, then if it goes wrong you keep going, then watch a Youtube video until you manage to pull it off.

[danny.]

1 hour ago, CornwallFox said:

Personally, culture can't be measured. No culture is inherently better or worse, they're all just different. With western values you can look at some culture's treatment of women and complain, but you have to forget about our own historic treatment of women. Other cultures might point towards our economic system and willingness to treat the poor like scum (the way the homeless are treated or how benefit recipients are talked about). Our historic links to all sorts of bad things exist, we don't live in a bubble. Cultures are just different. You can't measure them. You look at other cultures through the lens of your own. 

That's a broader argument on subjective VS objective morality. I don't think people will ever agree which is the correct one there.

Considering historic actions that are no longer part of a culture is fallacious and irrelevant for any current comparison of cultures.

As a side note, I find it curious how, particularly on the left, usually only the bad parts of history for British and Western civilisations are considered and not the good.  

 

 

2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

It is. 

 

I wonder how tricky the similar cognitive dissonance is regarding knowing but still denying that such beliefs in cultural inequality, when applied, only end one way for our species.

 

But that's humans for you, I guess. We all have our crosses to bear, apparently. 

I think you have tangled yourself three, I haven't denied culture inequality, I am a proponent for the argument of cultural inequality. it is you who are denying cultural inequality.

[leicsmac]

34 minutes ago, Kitchandro said:

Culture is not just national or religious, and culture is not nature. You’re (justifiably) criticising online culture, for example, because people choose to actively engage in certain behaviours.

 

There is an obvious political culture in the US for example and to suggest that MAGA culture should be considered equal to, let’s say the genuine left-wing culture, is obviously false. One is built on control and greed, the other is, despite any flaws the culture might have, built on the idea of freedoms and equality. Patriarchal culture is another clearly negative example.

 

Frankly, I don’t think much to British culture but you’d be hard pressed to argue American culture is not worse (a more extreme version of all the negatives) in almost every single aspect. That’s not a judgement of individual people, and frankly even a lot of Americans (the decent ones) would agree with me. I’d argue it’s often silly to say that a culture is purely bad - you can criticise one without saying it’s all bad. But objectively people are better off living in certain cultures rather than others because there are physical and tangible consequences for it.

 

Back to the subject at hand, no one can defend this callous killing and anyone who’s seen the video, heard the several eyewitness accounts from locals and is still seriously suggesting there might be some justification for what this essentially Gestapo agent did should hang their head in shame.

Fair points well made all the way through there. 

 

It's just a difficult thing to reconcile that while the above is true, there are people who will use similar beliefs regarding "better cultures" to engage in truly grotesque behaviour that won't end well for anyone, even them.

 

I know it's a bloody difficult circle to square, though. 

[MC Prussian]

4 hours ago, leicsmac said:

And on the topic of "believing", "Reputable news agencies and expert individuals are not to be believed, but Mr. Random Comment on Social Media is to be believed and have policy set around his thoughts" is a nice epitaph for our species that can be left for the next supposedly intelligent one to find.

 

Seeing as a lot of the harm being caused to a lot of living beings right now, and more in the future, can be traced back to that sentiment. 

The same reputable news agencies that only show one portion of an incident, in this case a 22-second video clip, with no other additional information (based on their own research)? That's not news, that's clickbait and rage bait.

What "experts" are you referring to (in this case)?

 

And people who can recall the circumstances to that much of a detail in general do not tend to make things up.

May I remind you of your own claim here, just a few posts earlier?
 

Quote

This administration has put guns in the hand of the kind of people who showed up at the Capitol on January 6th 2021 and made any acts of brutality, false detention and removal from their homes and intimidation without any kind of due process institutional and therefore acceptable to all of their social media flying monkeys. 

 

That they have gone from those things to shooting someone who just happened to be in their way and then coming up with a flimsy self justification that she represented a capital threat to them is not the biggest leap. And, sadly, I doubt it will be the last time that it happens. 

Regular cops can shoot you under particular circumstances (resisting arrest, etc), depending on the US state you're in (laws differ slightly).

 

She didn't just "happen to be in their way". She blocked ICE's path: What is an alleged "legal observer" doing there?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/renee-nicole-good-minneapolis-ice-shooting-live-updates-b2896627.html

(That's a  "reputable news agency")

 

You don't obstruct law enforcement, in particular not in the US.
If you do, you suffer the consequences. I'd rather the case of this mother be settled in court, but it's too late for that now.

[Jattdogg]

1 hour ago, Tommy G said:

Finally - there will be some huge US corporations that won't be particularly happy with this  if you've been round a supermarket in the US you realise it's almost impossible to find proper food in a suitable quantity. 

How's mango mussolini supposed to get his McDonald's now? RFK about to get fired? Lol

[Trav Le Bleu]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

 

Appreciate the clarification. 

 

One of the many other things that could have been done before shooting her in the face probably should have been done, then. 

What is a registration plate for if not to identify lawbreakers so they can be either followed or apprehended later.

[Trav Le Bleu]

5 hours ago, Md9 said:

Trump trying to cause more chaos? The officer didn’t look like he got touched though it was close and he walked away as there are videos of him doing so. 

Professional agitator.

 

What is the pay and hours like?

[leicsmac]

50 minutes ago, kenny said:

Ive not seen the video, so can't comment directly.

 

But what you can't do, is hold down R2 on the controller, zoom in using your super-sense skill and take out the spark plugs in the engine, then if it goes wrong you keep going, then watch a Youtube video until you manage to pull it off.

Perhaps having a look might add clarity, then. 

 

I certainly agree that actions taken "in the field" are often split-second and difficult, but I also find it entirely unacceptable that people who turn out to be innocent can be killed and then no one answers for it because making a mistake that ends someone's life somehow doesn't matter if you "fear for your own life".

 

 

36 minutes ago, danny. said:

 

I think you have tangled yourself three, I haven't denied culture inequality, I am a proponent for the argument of cultural inequality. it is you who are denying cultural inequality.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough there, allow me to further clarify:

 

The belief in cultural inequality, when applied in all but the most somehow benevolent fashion, will end disastrously for our species, through conflict and/or ignorance of mutual natural problems we face. Those who believe in such inequality appear to be in a very great deal of denial about this ending and their role in it.

 

I think that denial is cognitive dissonance itself. 

Edited 8 January by leicsmac