Fatawu to Bournemouth

[Finnegan]

18 minutes ago, Stadt said:

you could essentially work out what Rudkin has cost the club in relation to an average DoF in fees, wages, opportunity cost, free transfers, lack of CL qualification. Not far off half a billion, genuinely

 

I did a lite version of this without the adjustment for the Rudkin tax. Just simply what we've lost on players that were either sold or left for free. It's in the Rudkin thread somewhere. It was eye wateringly horrible. 

[Bablemikey]

14 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

I did a lite version of this without the adjustment for the Rudkin tax. Just simply what we've lost on players that were either sold or left for free. It's in the Rudkin thread somewhere. It was eye wateringly horrible. 

Another £60M walking on a free this summer too when Daka, Winks, and Periera contracts end.

[Finnegan]

17 minutes ago, Bablemikey said:

Another £60M walking on a free this summer too when Daka, Winks, and Periera contracts end.

 

On 26/08/2025 at 15:13, Finnegan said:

 

I've just put a Google Sheet together on my lunch break because I'm a sad case. Figures were all what can be publicly lifted from Wikipedia, Transfermarkt or AI. Wikipedia tends to be the most generous to the club and provided the most numbers. Obviously most are educated estimates.

 

Since Jon Rudkin became Director of Football (14/12/14) I make it we've signed 53 footballers of note (I've excluded development squad signings and players who both signed and left for free.)

 

Of those 53, 37 have left the club. 

 

Of the 37 who have left the club we received a losing fee for 8, sold 10 for a profitable fee and lost 19 of them for free (retirements, agreed free transfers or contract expiry.) Of the 10 that left for profit, only Kante, Maddison, Maguire, Fofana and Hermansen left for eight figure sums. Others included Zieler and Luis Hernandez who left for nominal fees.

 

The total spent on the 53 is a combined £681m, the total spent on the 37 who have left is £460m. The total we've received in fees for those players* is £334m representing a loss of about £126m in ~9 years.

 

On the 18 players we've sold for a fee, we've actually made a profit of £128m.

 

But we get absolutely destroyed by the fact we've spent about £254m on footballers who left us for free, significantly painful being Tielemans (40m), Slimani (28m) and Perez (30m.)

 

All in all, it's just a horrific track record and is completely unsustainable. We're a football club that should carve out it's existance by buying and selling upwardly mobile players, never spending much on anyone over the age of about 23-25 and always making sure to move those players on in their prime for a significant profit. We CAN do it, we HAVE done it, it's the only reason we aren't far worse off than we are. But the fact we're making those losses is awful, the fact we lose so many players for free is awful and the fact we have to paper over these cracks by cashing ine arly on home-grown players for pure profit is just tragic.

 

He's just objectively failed as a DoF.

 

 

(*I haven't included money received for players developed by the club or signed before Rudkin became the Director of Football but then I also haven't considered losses we're highly likely to make for players still at the club who cost a **** load, ie Soumare, Daka, Vestergaard, etc.)

 

 

 

There you go, that was it. 

 

So ~126m loss on players we sold, another ~254m on ones that walked out for free and to add to your list of pending ones that are about to walk out for free, Bouba cost us another 20 odd, Vestergaard we'll probably be stuck with for another year and that's another 15m.

 

What I didn't bother calculating because the data isn't reliable is the cost in wages over that time for players that don't actually play. So that's either cases like Soyuncu, Vestergaard, Daka, Soumare, etc where handsomely paid footballers are peripheral squad members or even frozen out entirely or even cases where a player has been loaned out to clubs repeatedly (eg Praet, Slimani, etc) who won't be paying anywhere near their full wage.

 

I know every club will have stories like this. A certain percentage of transfers always fail. But the volume of money we've pissed away over the last 5-10 years is ****ing tragic.

 

[Stadt]

55 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

 

There you go, that was it. 

 

So ~126m loss on players we sold, another ~254m on ones that walked out for free and to add to your list of pending ones that are about to walk out for free, Bouba cost us another 20 odd, Vestergaard we'll probably be stuck with for another year and that's another 15m.

 

What I didn't bother calculating because the data isn't reliable is the cost in wages over that time for players that don't actually play. So that's either cases like Soyuncu, Vestergaard, Daka, Soumare, etc where handsomely paid footballers are peripheral squad members or even frozen out entirely or even cases where a player has been loaned out to clubs repeatedly (eg Praet, Slimani, etc) who won't be paying anywhere near their full wage.

 

I know every club will have stories like this. A certain percentage of transfers always fail. But the volume of money we've pissed away over the last 5-10 years is ****ing tragic.

 

Add wages and the opportunity costs in (which will be true of other clubs too but not to the same extent) and plausibly the cost of Rudkin in lieu of an average DoF over the past 10 years might actually mount up to nearly a £1 billion - a ****ing aberration.

 

Missing out on at least 1 CL campaign is worth £50m?

Overpaying by 10-20% on fees is probably £150m

Overpaying on wages by 20-25% perhaps £300m?

Players leaving on a free (sometimes it is unavoidable so revised down from 254m) £200m?

Not selling players at their peak value (this cannibalises some of the other numbers tbf) £250m?

Not integrating academy players, sorting out loans early enough, various academy failures e.g Bassey £50m

Opportunity costs (the most nebulous) eg signing Oliver Skipps vs equivalents, say Enzo Le Fees £250m?

Managerial compensation £50m?

 

It's well over £1bn.

 

It's all fag packet stuff and more of a thought experiment but it is plausible a bog standard DoF would have prevented most of this. Other DoFs make mistakes, Rudkin hasn't failed 100% of the time but the track record is just so bad. Whelan stepping in for the Maguire sale was so revealing.

[Finnegan]

6 minutes ago, Stadt said:

Add wages and the opportunity costs in (which will be true of other clubs too but not to the same extent) and plausibly the cost of Rudkin in lieu of an average DoF over the past 10 years might actually mount up to nearly a £1 billion - a ****ing aberration.

 

Missing out on at least 1 CL campaign is worth £50m?

Overpaying by 10-20% on fees is probably £150m

Overpaying on wages by 20-25% perhaps £300m?

Players leaving on a free (sometimes it is unavoidable so revised down from 254m) £200m?

Not selling players at their peak value (this cannibalises some of the other numbers tbf) £250m?

Not integrating academy players, sorting out loans early enough, various academy failures e.g Bassey £50m

Opportunity costs (the most nebulous) eg signing Oliver Skipps vs equivalents, say Enzo Le Fees £250m?

Managerial compensation £50m?

 

It's well over £1bn.

 

It's all fag packet stuff and more of a thought experiment but it is plausible a bog standard DoF would have prevented most of this. Other DoFs make mistakes, Rudkin hasn't failed 100% of the time but the track record is just so bad. Whelan stepping in for the Maguire sale was so revealing.

 

I think the only point of argument I'd inject anywhere is that the longer time goes on, the less I think we should use the term "Rudkin" and more just "King Power", to be honest. I very much based the maths on his tenure as DoF but I increasingly believe his actually day job doesn't really match his title. I don't really think the expectations of him are comparable to what is expected of Txiki Begiristain, Monchi, Leonardo, Comolli or whoever else.

 

A lot of the decision making we're deriding was the work of Rodgers, Cooper and co' which is an institutional and structural failure of the club as a business. 

 

Essentially, I think our club is so badly run that we don't really know who actually has true accountability for anything so ultimately the buck just has to keep passing upwards until you get to the Top (see what I did there.)

 

Don't take that as a defence of Rudkin per se, I just think it's less "the cost of Rudkin" and more "the cost of having no adequate footballing infrastructure." It sounds pedantic but it's probably an important distinction.

 

[Stadt]

16 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I think the only point of argument I'd inject anywhere is that the longer time goes on, the less I think we should use the term "Rudkin" and more just "King Power", to be honest. I very much based the maths on his tenure as DoF but I increasingly believe his actually day job doesn't really match his title. I don't really think the expectations of him are comparable to what is expected of Txiki Begiristain, Monchi, Leonardo, Comolli or whoever else.

 

A lot of the decision making we're deriding was the work of Rodgers, Cooper and co' which is an institutional and structural failure of the club as a business. 

 

Essentially, I think our club is so badly run that we don't really know who actually has true accountability for anything so ultimately the buck just has to keep passing upwards until you get to the Top (see what I did there.)

 

Don't take that as a defence of Rudkin per se, I just think it's less "the cost of Rudkin" and more "the cost of having no adequate footballing infrastructure." It sounds pedantic but it's probably an important distinction.

 

Oh agreed absolutely, Top is absolutely culpable - none of them quite appreciated Pearson did half of Rudkin's job anyway, then Shakespeare and Walsh stuck around for a whole anyway. Our run under Macia was pretty strong too.

 

Where Rudkin can get the blame is he has near absolute authority, he has more autonomy than any DoF in world football, the CEO with an actual real background was edged out in favour of Old Jon. He could have appointed more or less anybody he liked to help run things but anybody remotely challenging has left soon after. Instead of offloading academy responsibilities, strategy, Leuven (not that he does anything there), negotiation, managerial recruitment and so on - he's just taken progressively more on to the point he has a hand in KP's horse racing stable?!

 

Even if he was competent, he'd be spread incredibly thin. He's not capable and has his fingers in a dangerous amount of pies, it could hardly be worse. The skeleton apparatus processes AND the toxic combo of no structure with overbearing control means anybody promising left like McGuinness, Macia, Sormaz et al left sharpish. Like you say though, it;s on Top for allowing this.

 

You can be a hands off owner if you employ the right people (he's witnessed what works with various aspects of the good people we've had a the club over the past 10 years) but he can't because his tapeworm won't have it.

[Pita]

3 hours ago, Stadt said:

Add wages and the opportunity costs in (which will be true of other clubs too but not to the same extent) and plausibly the cost of Rudkin in lieu of an average DoF over the past 10 years might actually mount up to nearly a £1 billion - a ****ing aberration.

 

Missing out on at least 1 CL campaign is worth £50m?

Overpaying by 10-20% on fees is probably £150m

Overpaying on wages by 20-25% perhaps £300m?

Players leaving on a free (sometimes it is unavoidable so revised down from 254m) £200m?

Not selling players at their peak value (this cannibalises some of the other numbers tbf) £250m?

Not integrating academy players, sorting out loans early enough, various academy failures e.g Bassey £50m

Opportunity costs (the most nebulous) eg signing Oliver Skipps vs equivalents, say Enzo Le Fees £250m?

Managerial compensation £50m?

 

It's well over £1bn.

 

It's all fag packet stuff and more of a thought experiment but it is plausible a bog standard DoF would have prevented most of this. Other DoFs make mistakes, Rudkin hasn't failed 100% of the time but the track record is just so bad. Whelan stepping in for the Maguire sale was so revealing.

Mind boggling figures 

[mozartfox]

Back on topic, has he gone yet?  

[Marshall Cockney Fox]

Stripping the moments of magic away. He has regressed massively this season. In the Prem he would not be afforded the space and time to relentlessly try one of his worldies. Good Prem defenders would read him like a book. 

 

But, I know theres a massive talent still locked in there. So I just hope our Rudderz ensures thats factored into any prem offers accepted. You cant have the current Fats for 20mil. But you can have the future star now for £40 mil. Don't blink Rudders

[em9999]

Get between 30 and 35 mil... hes not as good as some think he is 

 

One trick pony 

[MPH]

59 minutes ago, Marshall Cockney Fox said:

Stripping the moments of magic away. He has regressed massively this season. In the Prem he would not be afforded the space and time to relentlessly try one of his worldies. Good Prem defenders would read him like a book. 

 

But, I know theres a massive talent still locked in there. So I just hope our Rudderz ensures thats factored into any prem offers accepted. You cant have the current Fats for 20mil. But you can have the future star now for £40 mil. Don't blink Rudders

 

err I’m sorry but you can’t do that. That’s like saying about a striker “ all he does is score goals”

 

if you strip away the mediocrity, then he’s won us many points and games.

 

 

and in fact he still has even if you include the mediocrity.

 

 

he’d be playing for Barcelona challenging for the Balon d’or if he was sensational for every minute he was on the pitch.

[Corky]

It really is sobering reading the input of @Finnegan and @Stadt. If we had any sort of business savvy, we would have no issues with PSR. It really isn't being punished for ambition, just a poorly run business losing too much money needlessly.

 

 I wish more journalists/ writers would pick up on this. 

[Dahnsouff]

32 minutes ago, em9999 said:

Get between 30 and 35 mil... hes not as good as some think he is 

 

One trick pony 

Those numbers are not remotely realistic in my opinion, for exactly the reasons you specify.

[Finnegan]

11 minutes ago, Corky said:

It really is sobering reading the input of @Finnegan and @Stadt. If we had any sort of business savvy, we would have no issues with PSR. It really isn't being punished for ambition, just a poorly run business losing too much money needlessly.

 

 I wish more journalists/ writers would pick up on this. 

 

One thing I do think and I've said this before when people are arguing with @urban.spaceman for some reason, the two things aren't mutually exclusive.

 

It's true that the club has been terribly run with some awful decision making and it's also true that the rules are not fair and were very specifically designed to keep clubs like us in our place and the big six in "theirs." 

 

You can and should be mad at both things.

 

[Marshall Cockney Fox]

25 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

err I’m sorry but you can’t do that. That’s like saying about a striker “ all he does is score goals”

 

if you strip away the mediocrity, then he’s won us many points and games.

 

 

and in fact he still has even if you include the mediocrity.

 

 

he’d be playing for Barcelona challenging for the Balon d’or if he was sensational for every minute he was on the pitch.

So you think his current MV should be defined by his recent performances? As I think any financial (sale) maximisation will need to come from the promise of him being better down the line. I've not been impressed by the 25/26 Fats. I've been more frustrated. Sorry!!

 

But to be honest. Whatever we get, if we choose to sell, won't mean diddly if its not spent well and improves us. 

[Stadt]

15 minutes ago, Corky said:

It really is sobering reading the input of @Finnegan and @Stadt. If we had any sort of business savvy, we would have no issues with PSR. It really isn't being punished for ambition, just a poorly run business losing too much money needlessly.

 

 I wish more journalists/ writers would pick up on this. 

We've maintained a positive (as in purchases/sales +/-) transfer record throughout this whole saga. We've spent remarkably little on transfers to be in such a financial mess and where we were in the table. We've just never managed the wage bill 

 

 

 

Edited 7 January by Stadt

[jayfox26]

50 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Those numbers are not remotely realistic in my opinion, for exactly the reasons you specify.

Some bang average players have gone for more or similar amounts. Brennan Johnson is very average in my opinion and Fatawu has a much higher ceiling. 

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, jayfox26 said:

Some bang average players have gone for more or similar amounts. Brennan Johnson is very average in my opinion and Fatawu has a much higher ceiling. 

Abdul showreel suggests he is worth more, even if consistency may cast some shade, but in reality I just cannot imagine us getting close to those numbers, due to being us and a bit crap selling for good value.

[jayfox26]

30 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Abdul showreel suggests he is worth more, even if consistency may cast some shade, but in reality I just cannot imagine us getting close to those numbers, due to being us and a bit crap selling for good value.

I dont think we've ever struggled to get good fees for our better players, we've always just struggled to shift lesser players. 

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, jayfox26 said:

I dont think we've ever struggled to get good fees for our better players, we've always just struggled to shift lesser players. 

Must just be feeling jaded, but plenty moaned when Barnes went.

[MPH]

1 hour ago, Marshall Cockney Fox said:

So you think his current MV should be defined by his recent performances? As I think any financial (sale) maximisation will need to come from the promise of him being better down the line. I've not been impressed by the 25/26 Fats. I've been more frustrated. Sorry!!

 

But to be honest. Whatever we get, if we choose to sell, won't mean diddly if its not spent well and improves us. 

I really think he would absolutely explode with a better team around him. He wouldn’t be double and triple marked for starters and I think being in a team with higher football intelligence would help with his runs and the passes he makes.

 

 

and like I said, iron out all his mistakes and you’re basically hoping for a ballon d’or contender. Playing for leicester. In the championship.

 

take his goals and assists away and we would be relegation fodder .

[Marshall Cockney Fox]

6 minutes ago, MPH said:

I really think he would absolutely explode with a better team around him. He wouldn’t be double and triple marked for starters and I think being in a team with higher football intelligence would help with his runs and the passes he makes.

 

 

and like I said, iron out all his mistakes and you’re basically hoping for a ballon d’or contender. Playing for leicester. In the championship.

 

take his goals and assists away and we would be relegation fodder .

I think we're just arguing slightly diff points. As I totally agree he has vast potential. So I just want that factored fully into any sale price. Im certainly not saying he's crap as I know he's not. I just dont think this season he's shone as I'd hoped (bar the worldies). But i accept there are reasons for this.

[JimJams]

1 hour ago, jayfox26 said:

Some bang average players have gone for more or similar amounts. Brennan Johnson is very average in my opinion and Fatawu has a much higher ceiling. 

BJ (teehee!) was Spurs top scorer last season.  He's limited but he gets goals at a level our Fats has yet to properly showcase himself on.

[MPH]

47 minutes ago, Marshall Cockney Fox said:

I think we're just arguing slightly diff points. As I totally agree he has vast potential. So I just want that factored fully into any sale price. Im certainly not saying he's crap as I know he's not. I just dont think this season he's shone as I'd hoped (bar the worldies). But i accept there are reasons for this.

 

 

have a good evening 

[Corky]

4 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

One thing I do think and I've said this before when people are arguing with @urban.spaceman for some reason, the two things aren't mutually exclusive.

 

It's true that the club has been terribly run with some awful decision making and it's also true that the rules are not fair and were very specifically designed to keep clubs like us in our place and the big six in "theirs." 

 

You can and should be mad at both things.

 

I agree that the rules are poorly designed and should be changed. I think our biggest problem was giving Rodgers so much control them failing to sack him on the multiple occasions he warranted it. 

 

I look at Brentford and Fulham and cannot believe the advantage we have wasted over them. The floor for that cup winning team should have been around 12th. We ruined everything at basically the wrong time.