BTG - Kieran Maguire

[Finnegan]

2 hours ago, Loxm said:

I’m sorry to say I didn’t ask him about getting the snip or creme eggs. Sorry to let you down. 
 

 

 

The TLDR summary of this is ultimately what plenty have already said and know: it all largely comes back to our horrendous mismanagement of the wage bill. 

 

He said the year Rodgers took us down we had the largest discrepancy between our income and our wage bill (£116 spent on wages for every £100 earned) in the history of the Premier League. For context, think he said UEFA recommend no more than 70 for every 100?

 

He also says that you can be almost certain by analysing our wage bill and the contracts that he's seen as an insider that the contracts we hand out to players are skewed hugely towards paying an up front, guaranteed salary whilst the vast, vast majority of other clubs give a reasonably small basic pay that's supplemented by huge bonuses. 

 

So a player at Leicester will have a massive basic wage with a small bonus for performance if we stay up, whilst a player at say Bournemouth will be on a much lower basic wage but with much larger incentive bonuses for staying in the league or scoring goals, keeping clean sheets etc. 

 

All of which explains why we're stuck in this constant cycle of PSR struggles because we're still in this 4 or 5 year contract cycle after we let Rodgers massively over spend on rubbish and let Rudkin negotiate all their contracts. 

 

It also explains why we can never get rid of players whilst other clubs find it easier to sell, because ours are happily sitting here for years on massive basic pay even if they don't play. And why we've got a squad of players that look like they don't give a shit if we win or lose. 

 

He also amusingly points out that in the first 4 years we were back in the Premier League (the two before and after we won it) we made profit which he says is almost unprecedented. There's two ways you can look at that that's interesting, it's the time Vichai was running the club not his son. It's also the time when the vast majority of the players contracted would have been signed before Rudkin was the DOF. 

 

Edited 23 January by Finnegan

[VLC86]

5 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Would selling more players after the FA cup victors have helped? For example if we had sold Madders, Youri and Fofana? 

My take on that is, it would have meant we complied with PSR for another year no doubt but because we are so poorly run the recruitment and wages offered to the poor recruits would still have got us.

 

The issue is not PSR, the issue is poor planning and leadership from the owner.

[Pliskin]

2 minutes ago, VLC86 said:

My take on that is, it would have meant we complied with PSR for another year no doubt but because we are so poorly run the recruitment and wages offered to the poor recruits would still have got us.

 

The issue is not PSR, the issue is poor planning and leadership from the owner.

I agree with you, hence why we’re still being hounded……

[kingpowerout]

Am I right in thinking we have another decent batch of high earners out of contract in the Summer? Daka, Ricardo etc.?
If so, we should be doing all we can to bring their exits forwards in this window by sanctioning cut-price deals to get them off the wages

Edited 23 January by kingpower

[kenny]

1 minute ago, kingpower said:

Am I right in thinking we have anothjer decent batch of high earners out of contract in the Summer? Daka, Ricardo etc.?

Daka

Ricardo

Ayew

Winks

 

£250-300k per week saved.

[VLC86]

1 minute ago, kingpower said:

Am I right in thinking we have anothjer decent batch of high earners out of contract in the Summer? Daka, Ricardo etc.?

Yep, but don’t be fooled that this instantly means we are fine.

 

Souttar, Kristiansen, Skipp, BDCR, Faes, Yannik etc will still be here unless sold and I would happily bet that most of them are paid more than an average championship salary.

[The boy Linacre]

Interesting that we made a profit for our 1st 4 Premier League seasons, Vichai passed in Oct 18 and Brendan joined in Feb 19.

Our positions then went 9th, 9th, 5th, 5th, 8th, 18th.

Its been said before, they shot for the Champions league, problem was player acquisition really from 20/21was generally shocking and we didn't incentivise players for success or lack of failure we paid them to just play.

Who would have made those financial choices, Rudkin, Whelan or Top??  They probably also pandered to Brendan's ill thought transfer whims.

Because player acquiisition as time went on was repeatedly shocking, the killer summer being 21, Daka, Soumare, Betrand & Vestergaard, doubling down in 22 with Wout, Viktor & Souttar (the last 2 hardly playing).

ITS a LONG WAY BACK, sad indeed.

And the PSR uncertainty means we won't invest to bring new players in.

Edited 23 January by The boy Linacre

[kenny]

1 minute ago, VLC86 said:

Yep, but don’t be fooled that this instantly means we are fine.

 

Souttar, Kristiansen, Skipp, BDCR, Faes, Yannik etc will still be here unless sold and I would happily bet that most of them are paid more than an average championship salary.

Even those players above saves us £15m or so, which should balance out with the drop in revenue from parachute payments at best.

 

I suspect them going only leaves us where are right now.

[VLC86]

6 minutes ago, kenny said:

Even those players above saves us £15m or so, which should balance out with the drop in revenue from parachute payments at best.

 

I suspect them going only leaves us where are right now.

Yep, and I have no doubt we are paying anyone recently signed more than the going rate for a mid table championship income.

[Finnegan]

23 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Would selling more players after the FA cup victors have helped? For example if we had sold Madders, Youri and Fofana? 

 

Selling players for significant profit always helps and obviously selling Youri instead of him going free would have brought in money. 

 

But the biggest stealth damage is done by the wage bill. 

 

The wave of transfers from Praet, Perez, JJ, Tielemans, Castagne, Daka, Soumaré, Vestergaard, Bertrand through to Faes and  Kristiansen - even really continuing it with Winks and Coady - just insane. 

 

We signed so many players on wages way, way beyond what we could afford, made a massive senior squad with far too many players on wages way beyond what our income could sustain. 

 

Selling the odd player for a big splash is like throwing a bucket full of water out of a boat with hundreds of holes. It slows down the sinking but you still end up drowning if the boat is that leaky. 

 

We won't be out of the woods until our wage bill makes sense against our income and we keep giving increasingly large chunks of our income to Macquarie in order to try and bail out more water from the boat in the short term. It's why we keep spiralling. 

 

It's why I'm quietly glad we haven't signed anyone new this season. If we survive in mid table this year without buying anyone and start fresh next season without Daka, Soumaré and Co on the books it'll be a big help. 

 

Edited 23 January by Finnegan

[Loxm98]

Take a look at this absolute whopper!

 

[Bourbon Fox]

12 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Selling players for significant profit always helps and obviously selling Youri instead of him going free would have brought in money. 

 

But the biggest stealth damage is done by the wage bill. 

 

The wave of transfers from Praet, Perez, JJ, Tielemans, Castagne, Daka, Soumaré, Vestergaard, Bertrand through to Faes and  Kristiansen - even really continuing it with Winks and Coady - just insane. 

 

We signed so many players on wages way, way beyond what we could afford, made a massive senior squad with far too many players on wages way beyond what our income could sustain. 

 

Selling the odd player for a big splash is like throwing a bucket full of water out of a boat with hundreds of holes. It slows down the sinking but you still end up drowning if the boat is that leaky. 

 

We won't be out of the woods until our wage bill makes sense against our income and we keep giving increasingly large chunks of our income to Macquarie in order to try and bail out more water from the boat in the short term. It's why we keep spiralling. 

 

It's why I'm quietly glad we haven't signed anyone new this season. If we survive in mid table this year without buying anyone and start fresh next season without Daka, Soumaré and Co on the books it'll be a big help. 

 

Yep, we are unfortunately in a position where we have to hope we can tread water long enough for the books to stabilise, then pick up the pieces of what's left and try to build again. 

 

Which will take investment, and a very smart 5-year plan from a savvy DoF.

[Bourbon Fox]

1 minute ago, Loxm98 said:

Take a look at this absolute whopper!

 

Well to be fair Lox, we were in League 1 once you know 

 

 

[Finnegan]

2 minutes ago, Bourbon Fox said:

Yep, we are unfortunately in a position where we have to hope we can tread water long enough for the books to stabilise, then pick up the pieces of what's left and try to build again. 

 

Which will take investment, and a very smart 5-year plan from a savvy DoF.

 

If we get out of this mess and then let Rudkin go back to the negotiating table again we're doomed. 

 

[Loxm98]

1 minute ago, Bourbon Fox said:

Well to be fair Lox, we were in League 1 once you know 

 

 

Forgive me, I must have forgotten that.. i was only 9 years old at the time! KING POWER IN! ALL HAIL KHUN TOP

[Globalfox]

49 minutes ago, VLC86 said:

I’d say he’s pretty qualified, more so than the person running our football club into the ground.

 

https://www.liverpool.ac.uk/people/kieran-maguire

Yes he is an academic never put his neck on the line to build or run a business. Those who can do those who cannot teach. It’s the same with financial advisors if they are so good why are they giving viewpoints on investing your money when they should be making so much they should not be interested in your money.. with no access to inside data he is just guessing like the rest of us.

[Dan]

12 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

If we get out of this mess and then let Rudkin go back to the negotiating table again we're doomed. 

 

We absolutely would as well. They would see getting out of the mess as the justification.

 

Well even that's generous. They don't need justification in their eyes. Rudkin is essentially co-owner.

[Katy]

28 minutes ago, Loxm98 said:

Take a look at this absolute whopper!

 

Yeah let’s keep Martin, whoever the **** he is. 

[GLC]

Really disappointed we didn’t find out how many cream eggs he could stick up his bum.

 

I feel incredibly let down by this level of journalism @Loxm98

i expect an apology statement and your resignation 

[CL Fox]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

The TLDR summary of this is ultimately what plenty have already said and know: it all largely comes back to our horrendous mismanagement of the wage bill. 

 

He said the year Rodgers took us down we had the largest discrepancy between our income and our wage bill (£116 spent on wages for every £100 earned) in the history of the Premier League. For context, think he said UEFA recommend no more than 70 for every 100?

 

He also says that you can be almost certain by analysing our wage bill and the contracts that he's seen as an insider that the contracts we hand out to players are skewed hugely towards paying an up front, guaranteed salary whilst the vast, vast majority of other clubs give a reasonably small basic pay that's supplemented by huge bonuses. 

 

So a player at Leicester will have a massive basic wage with a small bonus for performance if we stay up, whilst a player at say Bournemouth will be on a much lower basic wage but with much larger incentive bonuses for staying in the league or scoring goals, keeping clean sheets etc. 

 

All of which explains why we're stuck in this constant cycle of PSR struggles because we're still in this 4 or 5 year contract cycle after we let Rodgers massively over spend on rubbish and let Rudkin negotiate all their contracts. 

 

It also explains why we can never get rid of players whilst other clubs find it easier to sell, because ours are happily sitting here for years on massive basic pay even if they don't play. And why we've got a squad of players that look like they don't give a shit if we win or lose. 

 

He also amusingly points out that in the first 4 years we were back in the Premier League (the two before and after we won it) we made profit which he says is almost unprecedented. There's two ways you can look at that that's interesting, it's the time Vichai was running the club not his son. It's also the time when the vast majority of the players contracted would have been signed before Rudkin was the DOF. 

 

Someone who used to post on here denied this regularly. Good we've got a clear view on the facts now.

[Stuntman_Mike]

43 minutes ago, Loxm98 said:

Take a look at this absolute whopper!

 

This genuinely blows my mind. 

[kingfox]

It’s as if the club got too big for their boots, the success of those top six finishes went to their heads, so they started operating as if we were a cemented top six team. 
 

I think we all knew our wage bill was damaging us, getting relegated from the Premier League with the 7th highest wage bill in the division, you’re bound to feel the after effects for numerous seasons afterwards. 
 

What is madness though is they seemingly didn’t learn their lesson in the Championship, the signings of Winks and Coady in particular. 
 

This season all this mismanagement since the Rodgers years has come to the boil. 
 

The potential saving grace is that some high earners will probably leave in the summer.

[EastAnglianFox]

54 minutes ago, Loxm98 said:

Take a look at this absolute whopper!

 

 

Seems to have deleted it pretty quickly 

 

Unless I can't access his full page

[Loxm]

Just now, EastAnglianFox said:

 

Seems to have deleted it pretty quickly 

 

Unless I can't access his full page

It’s still there, on the YouTube video comments

[South Shire Fox]

2 hours ago, alanf0x said:

91k a week average salary the season we went down...

 

If only Madders had tucked away that penalty vs Everton! 

We would still have fcked it up and gone down. Felt like it was destined that year

Edited 23 January by South Shire Fox