6 point deduction - confirmed

[wurmer]

WTF are we doing appealing this! We broke the rules, end-of.

 

 Something else going on here, self destruct mode seems to have been put into motion….

[VLC86]

1 minute ago, kenny said:

Called it.

 

My guess is we drag this out past the end of the season and leave the league not knowing what to do.

Probably what the owner wants.

[foxfanazer]

Yeah this should be our focus. Not actually doing things correctly and sorting out the mess they've created 

[peach0000]

4 minutes ago, lcfcbluearmy said:

Exactly I don't see why we wouldn't appeal surely it would have been silly not to?

I think the club is being run so badly no matter what they do people will complain. In my view not appealing would be a ridiculous decision based on past cases. I reckon if we had decided not to appeal most of the people complaining would have complained anyway. 

[LadyFox53]

when were the accounts submitted late - does that mean a retrospective points deduction for the last time we were in the prem - in which case, one more point deducted from our relegation total wouldn't make any difference?

[VLC86]

5 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

Yeah this should be our focus. Not actually doing things correctly and sorting out the mess they've created 

I’m with you, but maybe the appeal gives us the opportunity to do that where as not appealing and going down wouldn’t.

[Bourbon Fox]

Doesn't seem like there's much jeopardy, especially given that the PL have appealed too. Seems like a fairly obvious response.

 

There's still the matter of the rule change, but I think if that wasn't a starter at the original hearing then we won't have much luck on appeal.

 

I think mainly it's just a frustrating reminder of our pisspoor stewardship, something we'd like to see the back of. It's probably a fairly simple decision to appeal, especially seeing as we could easily get relegated by a point.

Edited 19 February by Bourbon Fox

[Jabbaranks]

I honestly don't get it. 

 

We've broken the rules.

Multiple times. Massively.

There has to be some form of punishment as per the current framework, it would be absolute nonsense for us not to be punished. 

6 points, to my simple mind, seems light in terms of how much we've overspent.

 

At a time when we need to come together and focus on saving this sh1tshow of a season and potentially the future of the club, throwing this all up in the air again and making us look all Andrew Windsor about the punishment we got is such a grubby look and does zero to help focus the minds of the manager and the players.

[Wsl]

22 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

The retrospective applying of rules question has never been addressed as far as I can tell.

The Arbitral Tribunal considered whether the PL had jurisdiction. The Commission also found that because of that, LCFC were bound by that decision. And even if that wasn't right, the Commission ruled on it in the recent hearing against us. I can't see us succeeding in now arguing that somehow it gets rerun, but I can't see anyone being impressed by more jurisdictional points when we have had two bites of the cherry to knock out the PL's case on that basis. All we're left with is arguing that the Commission got it wrong as a matter of law. They must be extremely confident - a lot more than I am!

 

 

Edited 19 February by Wsl
shorten it

[Terraloon]

The appeal by the PL worries me. 

 

They the PL are arguing that to not punish the two proven  offences 1) Failure to Supply accounts & 2) Failing to co operate could be used as  a precedent going forward 

 

I have to admit I was surprised that the IC allowed mitigation but didn’t see failure to co operate as an aggravating factor which my guess is that is the main point of their appeal. Make no mistake the PL will be arguing for over 6 points and LC appealing was inevitable but having read the written reasons I can’t see the clubs appeal being successful.

 

[Lad1966]

2 minutes ago, Terraloon said:

The appeal by the PL worries me. 

 

They the PL are arguing that to not punish the two proven  offences 1) Failure to Supply accounts & 2) Failing to co operate could be used as  a precedent going forward 

 

I have to admit I was surprised that the IC allowed mitigation but didn’t see failure to co operate as an aggravating factor which my guess is that is the main point of their appeal. Make no mistake the PL will be arguing for over 6 points and LC appealing was inevitable but having read the written reasons I can’t see the clubs appeal being successful.

 

Isn’t failure to provide account/co-operate usually a fine, in most cases?

[Terraloon]

13 minutes ago, LadyFox53 said:

when were the accounts submitted late - does that mean a retrospective points deduction for the last time we were in the prem - in which case, one more point deducted from our relegation total wouldn't make any difference?

To be fair it’s a valid question but as I said some weeks ago proving the charges that weren’t the main FFP charge, should probably have been taken  as aggravating factors which in themselves probably wouldn’t lead to a points deduction but as a minimum should have led to 7 points and not the 6 the sanction was mitigated down to.

 

[Terraloon]

Just now, Lad1966 said:

Isn’t failure to provide account/co-operate usually a fine, in most cases?

It is but as I have just posted the behaviour and actions of lack of them should  be treated as aggravating factors. What that means that the entry point of 7 points should have been increased and not reduced as has happened 

[peach0000]

Just now, Lad1966 said:

Isn’t failure to provide account/co-operate usually a fine, in most cases?

And this is the problem the rules aren't clear and never have been. If they want PSR to be a thing there should be a written list of offences and a written list of sanctions. The whole legal progress just distracts from the sport and feels entirely arbitrary. Sporting sanctions should not be about opinions and lawyers it should be about fact based on clear rules. For me I hope every club will fight PSR as much as possible.

[Lewis's Junior]

Can someone help me out with the theory our appeal is pre-emptive vs the PL appeal? Is this because we think PL will succeed and we hope to reduce the original six, or is it because by appealing we think we'll string any further deduction out beyond this season? Or something else? 

We can't appeal any PL induced deduction until we get given it, so that can't be it?

[Foxdiamond]

Football at the higher levels be that international or club has become an ugly monster that has increasingly damaged my interest in the game. At one time I would go out of my way to watch any two teams play. Of course my main interest was Leicester and England but if I was in London on a match day then happy to go to a game or visiting family in Newcastle and they or Sunderland were at home then fine. Love of the game was the thing. Not now. Still retain my love of Leicester City but despite football not because of it. Everything around the game makes me feel jaded. Perhaps it's an age thing but so much about the business side takes away enjoyment.

[splinterdream]

I guess they're not disputing we broke the rules, more likely that the points cant be added retrospectively, that they should be added to the season we broke the rules

[dannythefox]

Marco must feel very strongly about getting a result out of this or he wouldn’t bother. Personally I wouldn’t bother, we are just asking for relegation 

[coolhandfox]

They were always going to, if you though they weren't you are an ostrich. 

Edited 19 February by coolhandfox

[Finnegan]

Just now, coolhandfox said:

They were always going to, if you though they weren't you are a ostrich. 

 

It's literally standard procedure.

 

People are morons.

 

[Terraloon]

14 minutes ago, Lewis's Junior said:

Can someone help me out with the theory our appeal is pre-emptive vs the PL appeal? Is this because we think PL will succeed and we hope to reduce the original six, or is it because by appealing we think we'll string any further deduction out beyond this season? Or something else? 

We can't appeal any PL induced deduction until we get given it, so that can't be it?

Some weeks ago I floated the notion that potentially taking the matter to appeal and maybe even arbitration could result in the matter being kicked even further down the road.We now come to the stage where I think it’s likely until LC appealing is rule on  the points may well have to be reinstated 

 

You will have seen that the PL are pushing for this to be in effect fast tracked to ensure the matter is resolved asap 

[Aleksz]

Can someone explain this better for my smooth brain

[kiddo]

I just want it all to stop. 

[Finnegan]

1 minute ago, Aleksz said:

Can someone explain this better for my smooth brain

 

1. None of these people have a clue, they're passing themselves off as experts on Twitter for clout.

2. He's implying we're risking a larger points deduction by appealing (which is complete and total nonsense, there's near zero chance it'll actually go up not down) because the potential reward is the points deduction getting wiped out entirely (which is also not happening in a million years and I highly doubt we expect it will.)

 

We're appealing because clubs literally always appeal, that's just how it works. I can't remember a points deduction for a PSR / FFP issue where a club hasn't appealed?

 

The extreme likelihood is our appeal will just be rejected and we'll keep the 6 point deduction but there's an off chance it might be reduced to 3 or 4 points which could make all the difference.

 

[Larry_LCFC]

Just sums up the sheer arrogance of the people that run us. Can finally take our punishment and put this whole sorry mess behind us....or appeal it and drag the uncertainty out for months with a risk of even more deductions. Toxic.