6 point deduction - confirmed

[Jazzy_Jeff]

Apologies if this has already been said (not read through the whole thread)

 

Seen a few suggestions that we have appealed just because the PL have and this is merely a retaliation in order to keep the deduction down. What if it’s the other way around?

 

It seems odd that the premier league want to go through all this again to give us an extra deduction of just one point. Could it be that they’ve got wind of our case, think it might hold up and are counter claiming to save face? The whole thing is strange. 
 

It’s a massive gamble that we’re taking and I’m surprised we are without just cause.

[UniFox21]

6 minutes ago, Jazzy_Jeff said:

Apologies if this has already been said (not read through the whole thread)

 

Seen a few suggestions that we have appealed just because the PL have and this is merely a retaliation in order to keep the deduction down. What if it’s the other way around?

 

It seems odd that the premier league want to go through all this again to give us an extra deduction of just one point. Could it be that they’ve got wind of our case, think it might hold up and are counter claiming to save face? The whole thing is strange. 
 

It’s a massive gamble that we’re taking and I’m surprised we are without just cause.

Prem are annoyed we weren't done for the delayed paperwork submission they seem as intended to block proceedings

[Manwell Pablo]

24 minutes ago, davieG said:

Surely any sort of PSR should be set so that they stop clubs from over expending themselves by agreeing exorbitant wages that they cannot afford.

 

This is all after the horse has bolted and will inevitably put extra strain on clubs.

 

 

 

The whole thing is structured to not be set and stone, no structure involving a club, and managing body in the PL, and a independent tribunal that decides punishment can be set in stone, it's just not how it works. 

 

People think the PL control all of this they do not, people call out Manchester City paying them off or some ludicrous bull shit, the fact of the matter is if the PL had their own way we'd be docked 12 points and Manchester City would probably be playing in League Two. 

Edited 19 February by Manwell Pablo

[topguest321]

As others, I don't have time to read all the replies, but for me it looks fairly clear. It's exactly 2 weeks since we got deducted. We think we got done harshly on the only point we lost which cost us 6 points, the PL think they got ingored with their arguement about the late submission, so both have independently appealed 2 seperate decisions and arguements, in what was probably a 14 day appeal window. People need to remember, we aren't appealing the same thing as the PL

[kenny]

8 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

The whole thing is structured to not be set and stone, no structure involving a club, and managing body in the PL, and a independent tribunal that decides punishment can be set in stone, it's just not how it works. 

 

People think the PL control all of this they do not, people call out Manchester City paying them off or some ludicrous bull shit, the fact of the matter is if the PL had their own way we'd be docked 12 points and Manchester City would probably be playing in League Two. 

The PL want the man city thing to go away. The big 6 almost certainly wants it to go away.

 

They are worth money, Leicester are not.

[Pita]

I feel another 3 points deduction on the way 

[Manwell Pablo]

3 minutes ago, kenny said:

The PL want the man city thing to go away. The big 6 almost certainly wants it to go away.

 

They are worth money, Leicester are not.

 

Give me some evidence to back that statement up. As it's utter garbage based on nothing from my perspective. 

 

Here's my evidence

 

The Premier League itself:

• Investigated City for years

• Brought 115 charges

• Sent it to an independent commission

• Funded a huge legal case

If they “wanted it to go away,” they wouldn’t have:

• Opened a formal investigation

• Publicly announced charges

• Risked their reputation, and it wouldn't still be going on, they're the ones bringing the case to the table, they can drop the case anytime they want.

 

 

 

 

[Foxdiamond]

6 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

Give me some evidence to back that statement up. As it's utter garbage based on nothing from my perspective. 

 

Here's my evidence

 

The Premier League itself:

• Investigated City for years

• Brought 115 charges

• Sent it to an independent commission

• Funded a huge legal case

If they “wanted it to go away,” they wouldn’t have:

• Opened a formal investigation

• Publicly announced charges

• Risked their reputation, and it wouldn't still be going on, they're the ones bringing the case to the table, they can drop the case anytime they want.

 

 

 

 

Kicked into the long grass

[AKCJ]

2 hours ago, Finnegan said:

There is no reason whatsoever for the club to not appeal, we were always going to do so. It isn't arrogant, it isn't delusional, it isn't bad leadership, it isn't putting our heads in the sand, it isn't denying culpability, it isn't refusing to learn from our actions, it isn't any other of the 25847363 reasons people are spamming this thread with to farm karma going "Top bad lul" - it's just normal.

I think the following are all very good reasons for the club not to appeal:

• The wider football world believes we got off lightly. There’s a risk that putting this back under the Independent Commission's nose could lead to a worse outcome.
• Appealing suggests the owner is still unwilling to take accountability for the situation.
• It comes across as arrogant and as though the club feels it is above the rules.
• It gives the impression that the initial deduction was harsh or unwarranted. Which many would say is delusional.
• It drags Leicester City’s name through the mud even further.
• It distracts from what really matters now – survival.

 

Yes, from a strictly legal point of view it makes sense to appeal but there's a lot more to it than that. Drawing a line under it all, learning from our mistakes and moving on is the right thing to do.

[Spiritwalker]

I can’t get my head around so many of our fans being desperate for us to get a large 

points deduction.

I will jump on the ‘we deserve all we get’ bandwagon when Man C and Chelsea get 

their points deduction, until then I will continue to regard the authorities and their 

rules as being part of a corrupt governance designed to look after a favoured few.

[coolhandfox]

22 minutes ago, Pita said:

I feel another 3 points deduction on the way 

I doubt it.

[Corky]

1 hour ago, Stadt said:

It makes sense to appeal but it seems nobody is exactly sure if this is risk free, whether it be a points deduction or a fine.

 

What’s concerning is there is a mentality of fight, hassle, block, be uncooperative rather than just taking our medicine. This appeal will cost however much in legal fees when we have very little to spend and it becomes another distraction.

 

No doubt the rules and jurisdiction issues are clear as mud at times but what we do know is our owner is denial, incompetent as well as our execs. It doesn’t feel like a calculated attempt at maximising our sporting advantage and feels (that being the operative word) as though it’s petulant denial of wrong doing - just like our statements. 

I expected us to appeal but thought the Premier League would be done with us given we aren't under their control and won't be next season.

 

No sympathy for us, we overspend then look for technicalities. The fans are also questioning why we fight this with a hard line yet so very little about creating a culture of strong standards (our fitness statistics are disgraceful), accountability and sensible pay grades.

 

Fans do not want us to suffer but feel we probably deserve it. There is no siege mentality because they don't want us involved and, hey ho, we aren't fully on their side.

 

I reckon this will end up with everything exactly as it was and more money chucked towards lawyers. Just boring and expensive.

[Foxdiamond]

6 minutes ago, Spiritwalker said:

I can’t get my head around so many of our fans being desperate for us to get a large 

points deduction.

I will jump on the ‘we deserve all we get’ bandwagon when Man C and Chelsea get 

their points deduction, until then I will continue to regard the authorities and their 

rules as being part of a corrupt governance designed to look after a favoured few.

And why would you cooperate with the football authorities. It has certainly so far served Man C very well not to say ok fair cop sorry guv.

[Stadt]

1 minute ago, Corky said:

I expected us to appeal but thought the Premier League would be done with us given we aren't under their control and won't be next season.

 

No sympathy for us, we overspend then look for technicalities. The fans are also questioning why we fight this with a hard line yet so very little about creating a culture of strong standards (our fitness statistics are disgraceful), accountability and sensible pay grades.

 

Fans do not want us to suffer but feel we probably deserve it. There is no siege mentality because they don't want us involved and, hey ho, we aren't fully on their side.

 

I reckon this will end up with everything exactly as it was and more money chucked towards lawyers. Just boring and expensive.

100%. Getting away with it with the early cases was probably the worst thing to happen, it’s bred this complacency that we’ll be fine rather than get our house in order 

[Cincinnati Fox]

3 hours ago, StanSP said:

Has Rudkin been sacked yet as a result of this? 

No, another promotion 

[Finnegan]

25 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

I think the following are all very good reasons for the club not to appeal:

• The wider football world believes we got off lightly. There’s a risk that putting this back under the Independent Commission's nose could lead to a worse outcome.
• Appealing suggests the owner is still unwilling to take accountability for the situation.
• It comes across as arrogant and as though the club feels it is above the rules.
• It gives the impression that the initial deduction was harsh or unwarranted. Which many would say is delusional.
• It drags Leicester City’s name through the mud even further.
• It distracts from what really matters now – survival.

 

Yes, from a strictly legal point of view it makes sense to appeal but there's a lot more to it than that. Drawing a line under it all, learning from our mistakes and moving on is the right thing to do.

 

I'm sorry but all of these are nonsense and just optics. **** the optics right now we just want to stay in the league. 

 

Appealing has no risk. 

 

Like I said, no club in the history of English football has ever gotten a larger points deduction as a result of their own appeal against the initial amount and we won't be the first. That's not going to happen. 

 

And the Premier League had already made their own appeal before we made ours anyway. 

 

This entire meltdown is moot and typical foxestalk. This is just a non issue and was always going to happen. 

 

Edited 19 February by Finnegan

[Chrysalis]

40 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

Give me some evidence to back that statement up. As it's utter garbage based on nothing from my perspective. 

 

Here's my evidence

 

The Premier League itself:

• Investigated City for years

• Brought 115 charges

• Sent it to an independent commission

• Funded a huge legal case

If they “wanted it to go away,” they wouldn’t have:

• Opened a formal investigation

• Publicly announced charges

• Risked their reputation, and it wouldn't still be going on, they're the ones bringing the case to the table, they can drop the case anytime they want.

 

 

 

 

The things you mentioned could quite easily have been done just to given an impression of intent.

 

They clearly not as hungry to deal with the larger clubs as the smaller one's.

 

Chelsea hotels allowed, Man City still no charge.  Clear examples of that.

[Corky]

2 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

The things you mentioned could quite easily have been done just to given an impression of intent.

 

They clearly not as hungry to deal with the larger clubs as the smaller one's.

 

Chelsea hotels allowed, Man City still no charge.  Clear examples of that.

Man City have been charged and the hearing has taken place. The outcome is still not known as it is a huge legal case. Nobody is kicking it down the road.

[Stadt]

2 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Like I said, no club in the history of English football has ever gotten a larger points deduction as a result of their own appeal against the initial amount and we won't be the first. That's not going to happen

There’s a first time for everything and give our non-cooperation this doesn’t comfort me tbh.

 

It’s unlikely but if (agin this is all conditional and speculative) the panel just about came to a 6 point deduction conclusion through leniency - I can’t imagine imagine they will be thrilled. The fact is we just don’t know.

 

Reflexively taking up whatever the opposite of the position the club has taken over the past 5 years has been right more often than not though 

[Chrysalis]

2 minutes ago, Corky said:

Man City have been charged and the hearing has taken place. The outcome is still not known as it is a huge legal case. Nobody is kicking it down the road.

Nothing is stopping the EPL ignore the Man City legal team and announce a charge regardless of their presence.
Then the legal battle would be the appeal, there isnt even an initial charge for Man City to dispute.
An unannounced charge is effectively no charge.
At best we could consider it a negotiation.

Edited 19 February by Chrysalis

[Manwell Pablo]

Just now, Chrysalis said:

Nothing is stopping the EPL ignore the Man City legal team and announce a charge regardless of their presence.
Then the legal battle would be the appeal, there isnt even an initial charge for Man City to dispute.
An unannounced charge is effectively no charge.

 

Why are you talking about things you clearly know nothing about like you know any facts at all.

 

The English PL have charged Man City 115 times, announced the fact they've charged Manchester City 115 times, read this very carefully, ANY FURTHER DECISION SITS WITH AN INDEPENDANT TRIBUNAL WHO HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PREMIER LEAGUE.

[Chrysalis]

2 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

Why are you talking about things you clearly know nothing about like you know any facts at all.

 

The English PL have charged Man City 115 times, announced the fact they've charged Manchester City 115 times, read this very carefully, ANY FURTHER DECISION SITS WITH AN INDEPENDANT TRIBUNAL WHO HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PREMIER LEAGUE.

Ok I have mixed up terminology I was thinking charge as in punishment, I accept what you saying.

 

But the EPL still could have done this far better.  I think there will be no sporting charge, thats my thoughts on the matter, and I am not alone in these thoughts.

Edited 19 February by Chrysalis

[Manwell Pablo]

1 minute ago, Chrysalis said:

Its not rocket science.

 

IF there is charge, lets say a points deduction, it is applied, and if appeal changes the result, it is changed, this has happened on "all" previous sporting charges.

 

Since we see no points deduction, there is clearly no charge.

If you are saying I am wrong you are welcome to tell me why.

You are trying to say they have been charged, but the charge has not been applied, how does that work?

 

That's not a ****ing charge ffs, that's a punishment, the PL DO NOT ISSUE PUNISHMENTS THEY CHARGE CLUBS. 

 

Our punishment has been decided by an independent tribunal, not the PL.

Edited 19 February by Manwell Pablo

[Chrysalis]

Read my edited reply, damn you fast on the trigger before I could edit.  I would appreciate you edit the quote.

[Manwell Pablo]

3 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

Ok I have mixed up terminology I was thinking charge as in punishment, I accept what you saying.

 

But the EPL still could have done this far better.  I think there will be no sporting charge, thats my thoughts on the matter, and I am not alone in these thoughts.

 

They've been charged with 115 separate sporting charges! City's lawyers are just very good at arguing their point and it's 115 charges, that takes some getting through, they are still in court!