Recruitment structure at the club

[shen]

I haven't found a thread focused solely on the current recruitment structure at the club, but if it overlaps too much with other threads i.e. about King Power/Rudkin/Glover/McCarron please delete or merge as you see fit.

 

I tried to have a look at the different agent representations of our squad and staff as that has obviously been a theme of interest ever since Brendan Rodgers stepped into our club and oversaw the dubious signings like Bertrand (professional ties to Rodgers' son, shared the same agency as Brendan), to see if there are unusual patterns there.

 

Although there are currently clusters of players from the same agencies (i.e. 6 from THE-TEAM (Wasserman rebranded), 4 from Unique Sports Group and 3 from CAA according to Transfermarkt) which are certainly noteworthy, there doesn't appear to be a more convoluted relationship to agents a la Wolves and Mendes. I could be wrong here, but it smells more like an overdependence on certain agencies and a lack of market knowledge at our club than actually agent-driven recruitment.

 

With the appointment of Glover in 2022 as our head of recruitment, who is noted for "for his good relationships with agents and his ability to be creative in transfer negotiations to get deals done, when they may have looked otherwise difficult", it seemed to cement our change in recruitment strategy from the scout- and data-driven strategy that we mainly used under Walsh & Wigglesworth to the more agent-based approach we've seen in recent years. 

 

Is there evidence that this structure is a viable approach and if yes, what does it require to make it a successful model? It's probably safe to say this model has been a failure for us so far with very few hits (El Khannouss, Hermansen, James (loan), Fatawu (loan/permanent), Buonanotte (loan) and Mavididi at a push) and a plethora of misses. But can we course correct with James McCarron as our new Sporting Director?

[ceebeefox]

Whatever the structure is its crap and we need to return to the old format pronto. We’ve all seen how good these players look on short , best bit videos. Me and anyone who’s played at a reasonable level would all have made it if the best bits were done consistently!

And only deal with slimy agents when you know who you want. Round pegs round holes.

[South Shire Fox]

The recruitment structure is one agent telling the club who to sign and then the agent taking a big cut from it. We used the same agent numerous times last season and paid some of the highest agent fees in the league despite no permanent transfers. The same way we signed players when Mandaric took over. No actual scouting of players hence why there has been so many duds

Edited 6 hours ago by South Shire Fox

[shen]

1 minute ago, South Shire Fox said:

The recruitment structure is one agent telling the club who to sign and then the agent taking a big cut from it. The same way we signed players when Mandaric took over. No actual scouting of players hence why there has been so many duds

That doesn't quite add up though. We have several well-respected scouts and analysts at the club, so the club will obviously have identified players throughout the last few years. 
The question is whether Brendan Rodgers and subsequent managers have had too much sway in who we sign or whether there is another reason that we've consistently recruited players that are quickly cast off or never used. McCarron is obviously brought in to align our recruitment with our sporting team so we hopefully stop making these senseless signings. 

 

But either we completely lacked a strategy (doubtful), let managers have too much say or chose to sign players for other reasons (financial, favouritism, lack of connections, PSR etc). 
Would love if we could get some insider info on recruitment lists or scouting activities as I refuse to believe our scouts are sat doing nothing all day and all week.

[South Shire Fox]

6 minutes ago, shen said:

That doesn't quite add up though. We have several well-respected scouts and analysts at the club, so the club will obviously have identified players throughout the last few years. 
The question is whether Brendan Rodgers and subsequent managers have had too much sway in who we sign or whether there is another reason that we've consistently recruited players that are quickly cast off or never used. McCarron is obviously brought in to align our recruitment with our sporting team so we hopefully stop making these senseless signings. 

 

But either we completely lacked a strategy (doubtful), let managers have too much say or chose to sign players for other reasons (financial, favouritism, lack of connections, PSR etc). 
Would love if we could get some insider info on recruitment lists or scouting activities as I refuse to believe our scouts are sat doing nothing all day and all week.

Do we? Thought they’d all been picked off over the years. There is obviously a reason we have signed utter shite for years and agents are definitely a prime suspect 

[lcfc_forever]

 

8 minutes ago, shen said:

That doesn't quite add up though. We have several well-respected scouts and analysts at the club, so the club will obviously have identified players throughout the last few years. 
The question is whether Brendan Rodgers and subsequent managers have had too much sway in who we sign or whether there is another reason that we've consistently recruited players that are quickly cast off or never used. McCarron is obviously brought in to align our recruitment with our sporting team so we hopefully stop making these senseless signings. 

 

But either we completely lacked a strategy (doubtful), let managers have too much say or chose to sign players for other reasons (financial, favouritism, lack of connections, PSR etc). 
Would love if we could get some insider info on recruitment lists or scouting activities as I refuse to believe our scouts are sat doing nothing all day and all week.

Agree, this is very much the case. 

 

The problem is we've been too much a manager-led club. Have a read of 'How to Win the Premier League' and tells you why our transfer strategy went backwards with Rodgers, he did the same at Liverpool. 

 

Glover had one strong window, when Enzo took charge - there was a clear sync between playing style and recruitment, with clear leadership. Before and after, it's been poor to dross - the January window was probably the worst of the lot. He also had good links with agents, which may have made Glover's performance look better. 

 

If you look at our targets for the 2024 summer window, there were some class players we were targeting but a lot of them fell through, partially because of the potential points deduction deterring players. So we ended up getting Cooper targets like Skipp and Ayew which was a disaster. 

 

Hoping this changes with McCarron. 

[Fox92]

Our recruitment structure:

 

[PageSZN]

Managers have definitely had too much of a say in recent times. Steve Cooper wanted Ayew and Bobby Reid etc. Even under Enzo, apparently Fatawu wasn't brought in by Enzo but our scouts knew he was a baller.

I think Glover is fine, but under this dictatorial leadership (especially rudkin), I can totally see a world where it was just Rudkin, Top and the Manager who really had the final say, instead of Glover or any other scouts.

I am hoping Mcarron can change this, and I think he will.

[Lesta Legend]

3 minutes ago, shen said:

That doesn't quite add up though. We have several well-respected scouts and analysts at the club, so the club will obviously have identified players throughout the last few years. 
The question is whether Brendan Rodgers and subsequent managers have had too much sway in who we sign or whether there is another reason that we've consistently recruited players that are quickly cast off or never used. McCarron is obviously brought in to align our recruitment with our sporting team so we hopefully stop making these senseless signings. 

 

But either we completely lacked a strategy (doubtful), let managers have too much say or chose to sign players for other reasons (financial, favouritism, lack of connections, PSR etc). 
Would love if we could get some insider info on recruitment lists or scouting activities as I refuse to believe our scouts are sat doing nothing all day and all week.

Our best scouts and analysts have left, in effect i'd imagine those that remain could be decent and still utilise the methodology built from the Pearson era but they're effectively likely looking at players from a list presented to them that has likely stemmed from agents or compiled by Glover. There is absolutely no way our signings over the last few years stemmed from statistical analysis of a wide data set of players that fit a profile of player that we would need for a particular position. Jordan James a long time target alongside the likes of Lookman who leave for pastures new because the club are run by imbeciles. 

The issue stemmed from losing those that implemented the system under Pearson, other's leaving that knew the system and then allowing subsequent managers to have more control on who we target that likely didn't start with any scout or analyst. Our board now find themselves by the looks of it relying on strong relationships with agents rather than structure and system, it all feels rank amateur. It is why we sign the likes of Skipp, Ayew and BDR

 

My outside hope is McCarron does indeed emphasise the need for the structure to change, clearly Rudkin shouldn't be anywhere near recruitment but only time will tell how effective McCarron can be to rebuild a broken system.

[Tommy G]

14 minutes ago, Lesta Legend said:

Our best scouts and analysts have left, in effect i'd imagine those that remain could be decent and still utilise the methodology built from the Pearson era but they're effectively likely looking at players from a list presented to them that has likely stemmed from agents or compiled by Glover. There is absolutely no way our signings over the last few years stemmed from statistical analysis of a wide data set of players that fit a profile of player that we would need for a particular position. Jordan James a long time target alongside the likes of Lookman who leave for pastures new because the club are run by imbeciles. 

The issue stemmed from losing those that implemented the system under Pearson, other's leaving that knew the system and then allowing subsequent managers to have more control on who we target that likely didn't start with any scout or analyst. Our board now find themselves by the looks of it relying on strong relationships with agents rather than structure and system, it all feels rank amateur. It is why we sign the likes of Skipp, Ayew and BDR

 

My outside hope is McCarron does indeed emphasise the need for the structure to change, clearly Rudkin shouldn't be anywhere near recruitment but only time will tell how effective McCarron can be to rebuild a broken system.

Who were they, out of interest?

[honeybradger]

27 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Who were they, out of interest?

Jose Fontes, Roma's current Head of Recruitment was probably the main big name scout we had on our books. Although he left in 2021.

 

Back then we used to have around 15 first team scouts, now we only have academy level scouts and domestic recruitment analysts.

 

Edit: we apparently have Sean St Ledger working as an international scout but he might be the only one.

Edited 6 hours ago by honeybradger

[Lesta Legend]

26 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Who were they, out of interest?

Besides Walsh (!), Ben Wrigglesworth and Macia are just two and they were very important to the way we worked and the players we used to sign. 
 

From 2019 since macia left we’re basically relying on Congerton, Glover and Rudkin. It would tally up with the obvious timeline and decline. We often see job openings for analysts, we clearly have a high turnover and probably not seen as a good career move right now. 
 

I hope McCarron has a remit to invest and change. Time will tell. 

Edited 6 hours ago by Lesta Legend

[AKCJ]

The recruitment strategy is ****ed. Very rarely do we actively pursue a footballer and it's very rare that we sign a player from a 'lesser' league or club.

 

 

Those players we sign from left field are generally our best purchases and they're so few and far between.

 

Hermansen, Fatawu, El Khannouss etc. All young and hungry players that came here and improved. We don't seem to want to go after these players and regularly take the easy option (agents coming to the club with overpaid players past their best).

 

[Soar Fox]

50 minutes ago, PageSZN said:

Managers have definitely had too much of a say in recent times. Steve Cooper wanted Ayew and Bobby Reid etc. Even under Enzo, apparently Fatawu wasn't brought in by Enzo but our scouts knew he was a baller.

I think Glover is fine, but under this dictatorial leadership (especially rudkin), I can totally see a world where it was just Rudkin, Top and the Manager who really had the final say, instead of Glover or any other scouts.

I am hoping Mcarron can change this, and I think he will.

[Basingstoke Fox]

Sky Sports had a decent series with Rob Mackenzie called "The Science of Scouting" back in 2014. His posts provide an insight into how we operated while we built the foundations for the most successful era in the clubs history.

[davieG]

Perhaps using simply equation the club see  using agents cheaper than employing top level scouts or it could be they kept disagreeing with Rudkin and Managers so Rudkin forced them out by ignoring their suggestions

 

[21st Century Fox]

[Pita]

Recruitment will never be any good if Rudkin got anything to do with it 

[shen]

57 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

Jose Fontes, Roma's current Head of Recruitment was probably the main big name scout we had on our books. Although he left in 2021.

 

Back then we used to have around 15 first team scouts, now we only have academy level scouts and domestic recruitment analysts.

 

Edit: we apparently have Sean St Ledger working as an international scout but he might be the only one.

I wasn't able to quickly find any reliable info about the staff, but Transfermarkt seem to think we have a few scouts employed. No idea how reliable or up-to-date this info is.

 

[Richmondfox]

1 hour ago, ceebeefox said:

Whatever the structure is its crap and we need to return to the old format pronto. We’ve all seen how good these players look on short , best bit videos. Me and anyone who’s played at a reasonable level would all have made it if the best bits were done consistently!

And only deal with slimy agents when you know who you want. Round pegs round holes.

Every department needs to be replaced but then the person hiring hasn't a clue so nothing will change.

 

Every team buys/loans duds but we have seemed to crossed the line where the duds outweigh the solid boring players, let alone the odd gem.  The combination of good contracts to older players that peaked years ago at low level clubs and loan players that are injured.

 

Buying Skipp and Ayew, let alone the price we paid was insane and should be studied by anyone hoping to be an agent.  Okoli is a strange one, surely his lack of passing ability would be at the top of the scouting report and a massive red flag.  It's not even as if it's a trait that would go unnoticed for a while, anyone with eyes that  has watched him could tell he is useless.

 

Set piece coach to rinse Thomas' throw in to no one at the front post and Ayew's corners.  Zonal marking at the expense of tracking and attempting to block, marking players twice their size, leaving the back post unmarked, coaching unfit players with poor discipline, a technical analysis yet errors are never corrected or tactics changed to get the best out of the players.

[shen]

4 minutes ago, Lesta Legend said:

Our best scouts and analysts have left, in effect i'd imagine those that remain could be decent and still utilise the methodology built from the Pearson era but they're effectively likely looking at players from a list presented to them that has likely stemmed from agents or compiled by Glover. There is absolutely no way our signings over the last few years stemmed from statistical analysis of a wide data set of players that fit a profile of player that we would need for a particular position. Jordan James a long time target alongside the likes of Lookman who leave for pastures new because the club are run by imbeciles. 

The issue stemmed from losing those that implemented the system under Pearson, other's leaving that knew the system and then allowing subsequent managers to have more control on who we target that likely didn't start with any scout or analyst. Our board now find themselves by the looks of it relying on strong relationships with agents rather than structure and system, it all feels rank amateur. It is why we sign the likes of Skipp, Ayew and BDR

 

My outside hope is McCarron does indeed emphasise the need for the structure to change, clearly Rudkin shouldn't be anywhere near recruitment but only time will tell how effective McCarron can be to rebuild a broken system.

I think the system that served us so well was hitting a glass-ceiling. I.e. with our increased reputation, finding the gems we were was getting increasingly difficult or expensive. In hindsight, we should've continued using a more data-driven approach similar to what Brighton, Brentford et al have done. But while their rise has been relatively fast, it was certainly more gradual and sustainable compared to our overnight transition from relegation-battlers to champions/CL participants. 

 

We've lost know-how but as others have pointed out, we still got Macia and had relative success with transfers until he left, suggesting we didn't turn hopeless overnight. But we were looking at a different calibre of players (i.e. Tielemans) than we were under Walsh, so there was obviously a shift that happened then. 

[shen]

6 minutes ago, Richmondfox said:

Buying Skipp and Ayew, let alone the price we paid was insane and should be studied by anyone hoping to be an agent.  Okoli is a strange one, surely his lack of passing ability would be at the top of the scouting report and a massive red flag.  It's not even as if it's a trait that would go unnoticed for a while, anyone with eyes that  has watched him could tell he is useless.

My game knowledge maybe isn't the best, but Skipp had quite a bit of PL experience at a top half Spurs side and had had a great season at Norwich. If you don't look at the price, then it wasn't such a braindead transfer for a newly promoted club at the time. The price and his subsequent failure to perform has made it a calamitous one. Why he's failed so bad is a good question though.

 

With Okoli, I would also point to our time under Rodgers where we obviously tried to target tall centerbacks to address our recurring weakness at set pieces (Vestergaard, Souttar, Faes) - probably at Rodgers' request. Okoli was bought on the back of our season with Maresca where we got found out often with the ball in behind our high-pressing team. Vestergaard and Faes were too slow, so he wanted more pace in there, something Cooper echoed. So Okoli was brought in to give a different option, his lack of passing became secondary I guess.

[damolcfc]

Might go on a saints forum....

 

Hey you guys....

Fox come in peace....

Just wondering,  any of your players that are really shit but wanna come be shit at Leicester?

 

Email [email protected] for a short brief chat about suitability