MPH Posted 24 June 2007 Posted 24 June 2007 very true , and PT spent an awful lot of money to prove this. dont think i can ever forgive him for akin-bad-buy-e!!!!! that signing alone ruined us. 5m down the drain.
RedOnRed Posted 24 June 2007 Posted 24 June 2007 I'm sure i'm like everyone else waiting with baited breath to see how Allen will do. Either it will cement him a place in managerial hierachy or he'll be gone before christmas. Either way it's very interesting.
Gené and Tonic Posted 24 June 2007 Posted 24 June 2007 I do expect to do ok in this division, it's not like he hasn't got the capacity to learn a few things, he's still a young manager and as he has said already, he's learnt more about the foreign market since he's been here. I just hope he's not too stubborn to realise where his faults may lie.
Who ate all the pies? Posted 24 June 2007 Posted 24 June 2007 Even great managers have been cack in their time so I'm afraid to say that anyone could do anything. I think we give MA our support and hope he proves MM right! We deserve some good luck after all the shite we have put up with the last few years!
RedOnRed Posted 24 June 2007 Posted 24 June 2007 Even great managers have been cack in their time so I'm afraid to say that anyone could do anything. I think we give MA our support and hope he proves MM right!We deserve some good luck after all the shite we have put up with the last few years! I'll echo all that too. The one thing chairmen want though is instant results. Look at Ferguson when he first took over at Man UTD, they were awful for the first few seasons. I can't imagine them excercising the same level of patience these days. If Allen doesn't flick the success switch straight away I wonder how patient Mandaric will be?
Pete_foxes Posted 24 June 2007 Posted 24 June 2007 Although Allen has not proven anything in the championship, Surely hes proved he has some managerial ability by cosistently getting teams into the play-offs, but failing at the final hurdle? not just bad luck that hes not got a team promoted I know we all do it, but its unfair to judge a player or manager before we've even kicked a ball.
Vardinhio Posted 24 June 2007 Posted 24 June 2007 A few falterings doesn't lead as a pre-cursor to view his potential success. Look at Davies at Derby. Gets Preston into playoffs 3 times in a row and falls everytime. 1 season at Derby and they are up. Let's stay positive and just hope we can gain a winning mentality that will either see us promoted or at least show us what are team is actually capable of in the next few years.
teblin Posted 24 June 2007 Posted 24 June 2007 A few falterings doesn't lead as a pre-cursor to view his potential success.Look at Davies at Derby. Gets Preston into playoffs 3 times in a row and falls everytime. 1 season at Derby and they are up. Let's stay positive and just hope we can gain a winning mentality that will either see us promoted or at least show us what are team is actually capable of in the next few years. I thought that earlier when reading through. Derby last season are our benchmark for next.
Matt Posted 24 June 2007 Posted 24 June 2007 Success at lower levels doesn't mean a manager will be any good...Peter Taylor proved that as did Mickey Adams, both pretty successful with their clubs but not much cop with us. Here we go again. I'll agree with PT I'd be surprised if anyone disagreed, but Micky Adams yes we got relegated from the Premiership with him but he got us promoted didn't he? With alot of shit aimed at him.
RedOnRed Posted 24 June 2007 Posted 24 June 2007 Here we go again. I'll agree with PT I'd be surprised if anyone disagreed, but Micky Adams yes we got relegated from the Premiership with him but he got us promoted didn't he? With alot of shit aimed at him. If you were to get promoted how well do you think you'd do in the Premiership? Some Championship supporters say better to be doing well in the Championship then depressingly losing each match at the foot of the Premiership. If you look at the big clubs with loads of support and resources like Newcastle, Aston Villa, Middlesboro, Man City, West Ham, etc, etc, that have been struggling - you're going to need a hell of a lot money, support and not to mention luck to mix it with that lot. The Premiership has changed dramatically since you were last up. It's now about 10 times harder. The top half of the league is on another level. Even Martin O'Neil is finding it hard at Villa and i'd be surprised if he could achieve for you now what he did last time. Allen is going to have to perform biblicalesque miracles.
Stevosevic Posted 24 June 2007 Posted 24 June 2007 If you were to get promoted how well do you think you'd do in the Premiership? Some Championship supporters say better to be doing well in the Championship then depressingly losing each match at the foot of the Premiership.If you look at big clubs with loads of support and resources like Newcastle, Aston Villa, Middlesboro, Man City, West Ham, etc, etc, that have been struggling - you're going to need a hell of a lot money, support and not to mention luck to mix it with that lot. Allen is going to have to perform biblicalesque miracles. Ive got to disagree, i'd rather have any sort of season in the premiership than constantly finishing near the top of the fizzy pop league without getting promoted, it would just seem pointless.
Joe. Posted 24 June 2007 Posted 24 June 2007 It would be immense getting into the Premiership again although I know we're not getting anywhere near it anytime soon. I would definitrely rather spend a season in the Premiership even if it means us not doing so well
Matt Posted 24 June 2007 Posted 24 June 2007 If you were to get promoted how well do you think you'd do in the Premiership? Some Championship supporters say better to be doing well in the Championship then depressingly losing each match at the foot of the Premiership.If you look at big clubs with loads of support and resources like Newcastle, Aston Villa, Middlesboro, Man City, West Ham, etc, etc, that have been struggling - you're going to need a hell of a lot money, support and not to mention luck to mix it with that lot. Allen is going to have to perform biblicalesque miracles. I've said it before, Obviously I want my club to do well, If we get promoted it will = Money, Even though we have a investor now, Money is something we still need, If you be successful at "yo-yoing" for a few seasons without spending much then after a few season when your in the prem spend abit. Also if we got promoted and we could just scrape staying up you can build on it, although in recent years many clubs have done brilliant in there first season in the prem then go into freefall in there second season. I've said for the coming season if we make improvement, I'll be happy, Top 10 is what i'm looking at, give or take a few places, 13-14-15th is not good enough, but after the last few season improvement is the aim. You say most Championship supporters would rather be doing well in the championship than losing every match in the prem, Correct I wanna see my team winning, but by "Doing well in the Championship" for me would mean Play-off places/Automatic Promotion, And if we got in the play-offs every season and every season we lost in the play-offs that would be depressing, If we got Automatic Promotion we'd be in the prem and as you putting it "losing each match at the foot of the Premiership". Catch 22. Swings and Roundabouts.
RedOnRed Posted 24 June 2007 Posted 24 June 2007 And if we got in the play-offs every season and every season we lost in the play-offs that would be depressing, If we got Automatic Promotion we'd be in the prem and as you putting it "losing each match at the foot of the Premiership".Catch 22. Swings and Roundabouts. Sounds like you're a realist. The last three seasons Allen has lost twice in the play offs with Brentford and then once with us - basically that's his record. If that pattern carries on emerging and the novelty wares off for you it looks like you could be in for a depressing ride then.
Babylon Posted 24 June 2007 Posted 24 June 2007 The Premiership has changed dramatically since you were last up. It's now about 10 times harder. You are talking out of your backside and the facts that prove this are:- 7 Bolton Wanderers 8 Reading 9 Portsmouth Teams can do it from this division with a bit of luck and skill. I don't care about how we would do if we got there, what I care about is getting there. If you come back down you use the £60m and £11m parachute money to come back stronger.
RedOnRed Posted 24 June 2007 Posted 24 June 2007 You are talking out of your backside and the facts that prove this are:-7 Bolton Wanderers 8 Reading 9 Portsmouth Teams can do it from this division with a bit of luck and skill. Ooh you rude young man! I was saying how much the Premiership has changed since you were last up and Bolton having been up for about 6 years and Portsmouth for the past few seasons are two teams that have managed to stay up for quite a while now and consolidate. So I can't quite see the point you're making using them as examples. I get your point about Reading who seemed to have bucked the trend of the 3 teams that go up typically going straight back down. The point I was trying to make is that the Premiership has changed a lot since O'Neil managed you in it. The top tier of teams like Chelsea, Man UTD, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs have changed almost beyond recognition since that period - they've all now got world class players and managers and then the next tier below them are a force to be reckoned with too..
lookwhaticando Posted 24 June 2007 Posted 24 June 2007 I get your point about Reading who seemed to have bucked the trend of the 3 teams that go up typically going straight back down. Was that before or after West Ham and Wigan both managed it?
RedOnRed Posted 24 June 2007 Posted 24 June 2007 Was that before or after West Ham and Wigan both managed it? West Ham should never have gone down and both clubs, especially Wigan, are completely minted. My point is that to get up into the Premiership and stay up you need either a manager that can perform miracles or shed loads of money like the size of a small countries annual budget. Preferably both though.
Mikey Posted 24 June 2007 Posted 24 June 2007 If you were to get promoted how well do you think you'd do in the Premiership? Some Championship supporters say better to be doing well in the Championship then depressingly losing each match at the foot of the Premiership.If you look at the big clubs with loads of support and resources like Newcastle, Aston Villa, Middlesboro, Man City, West Ham, etc, etc, that have been struggling - you're going to need a hell of a lot money, support and not to mention luck to mix it with that lot. The Premiership has changed dramatically since you were last up. It's now about 10 times harder. The top half of the league is on another level. Even Martin O'Neil is finding it hard at Villa and i'd be surprised if he could achieve for you now what he did last time. Allen is going to have to perform biblicalesque miracles. Yeah because you've been in the Premiership since then. You can't tell if it's harder or not harder even if we do go up, I doubt we will have as strong team as we did back then. So it is difficult to tell if it's harder or not.
RedOnRed Posted 25 June 2007 Posted 25 June 2007 Yeah because you've been in the Premiership since then. You can't tell if it's harder or not harder even if we do go up, I doubt we will have as strong team as we did back then. So it is difficult to tell if it's harder or not. Do you mean Wimbledon? Aww, a bit controversial that! Big news for us... Milton Keynes Dons FC will hold a press conference at stadium:MK tomorrow, Monday 25 June, commencing at 11am. At which, Chairman Pete Winkelman will be announcing and introducing the club's new manager. I think it's generally reckoned to be Paul Ince.
MPH Posted 25 June 2007 Posted 25 June 2007 Do you mean Wimbledon?Aww, a bit controversial that! Big news for us... Milton Keynes Dons FC will hold a press conference at stadium:MK tomorrow, Monday 25 June, commencing at 11am. At which, Chairman Pete Winkelman will be announcing and introducing the club's new manager. I think it's generally reckoned to be Paul Ince. if its ince i think that will be a good signing for you. dont know how much money he will get to spend from the sale of platt and mcleod, but even on limited resources he's proved he can get the best out of players.. say you sell them both for a combined fee of 2m. they will probably only give him half of that, but its still 3-4 players that could strengthen your team.. he would be a step in the right direction for sure.
Babylon Posted 25 June 2007 Posted 25 June 2007 I was saying how much the Premiership has changed since you were last up The point I was trying to make is that the Premiership has changed a lot since O'Neil managed you in it. Make your mind up, one minute it's since we were last up th next it's when we were up with O'Neil. The two are many years apart. Teams have consistently gone up and stayed up and since O'Neil you've had the likes of Charlton, Bolton, Fulham, Wigan, West Ham, Sunderland. West Ham should never have gone down and both clubs, especially Wigan, are completely minted.My point is that to get up into the Premiership and stay up you need either a manager that can perform miracles or shed loads of money like the size of a small countries annual budget. Preferably both though. Yeah west ham and wigan both spent loads when they went up didn't they.
RedOnRed Posted 25 June 2007 Posted 25 June 2007 Make your mind up, one minute it's since we were last up th next it's when we were up with O'Neil. The two are many years apart.Teams have consistently gone up and stayed up and since O'Neil you've had the likes of Charlton, Bolton, Fulham, Wigan, West Ham, Sunderland. Yeah west ham and wigan both spent loads when they went up didn't they. Yes, the Preimiership has changed dramatically since you were last up and obviously even more so then when you were up with O'Neil. Yes, some teams have gone up and stayed up for a prolonged period, but then most that have gone up have tended to go straight back down. That is unless they've spent loads or had a genius manager. Charlton - had a genius manager but he's now gone and they're now back down Bolton - good manager and spent a lot Fulham - spent a lot initiially but are now on a downward spiral Wigan - did spend a lot West Ham - have spent a lot Sunderland - haven't normally spent a lot and have gone straight back down. On this occasion they have a good manager who is now spending a lot. Before you start rolling your eyes and telling me i'm talking out of my arse again actually point out a team that has stayed up for more then two seasons without either spending a lot or hasn't had a bloody good manager, because so far you haven't done that.
Stevosevic Posted 25 June 2007 Posted 25 June 2007 Surely it depends on what you classify as alot? I dont recall any of those teams spending stupid amounts of money apart from Fulham. West Ham have only done it in the last 6months
Kent Fox Posted 25 June 2007 Posted 25 June 2007 Also depends on how you define a "genius manager". You quote Curbs in your genius list but he was there for 15 years and never won the premiership. He did a lot for Charlton but IMO he's not really a genius. And let's face one fact - MA is untried at this level. Who's to say he's NOT a genius???
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