FAO BNP Voters (And BNP Haters)

[breadandcheese]

Yes I did, completely no different to the many black and Asain group/societies. However that isn't viewed as racist.

This a standard line put out by Nick Griffin and just doesn't work.

You can't honestly compare a national political party with aims to implement policy across a nation, with a small minority group society.

Tell me though, if Nick Griffin has no axe to grind with those non-white people who come to Britain and contribute as valued members of society (as he so patronisingly puts it), why will he not let them join his party? Other than racism of course.

[Fez of Mahrez]

The BNP represents Britain's workers? They don't even represent basic British craftsmanship

Charlie Brooker

I was born in the 70s and grew up in a tiny rural village. There was, I think, only one black kid in my primary school. One day, someone pushed him over and called him "blackjack". The headmaster called an impromptu assembly. It involved the entire school, and took place outdoors. No doubt: this was unusual.

We stood in military rows in the playground. I must have been about six, so I can't remember the words he used, but the substance stuck. He spoke with eerie, measured anger. He'd fought in the second world war, he told us. Our village had a memorial commemorating friends of his who had died. Many were relatives of ours. These villagers gave their lives fighting a regime that looked down on anyone "different", that tried to blame others for any problem they could find; a bullying, racist regime called "the Nazis". Millions of people had died thanks to their bigotry and prejudice. And he told us that anyone who picked on anyone else because they were "different' wasn't merely insulting the object of their derision, but insulting the headmaster himself, and his dead friends, and our dead relatives, the ones on the war memorial. And if he heard of anyone - anyone - using racist language again, they'd immediately get the slipper.

Corporal punishment was still alive and well, see. The slipper was his nuclear bomb.

It was the first time I was explicitly told that racism was unpleasant and it was a lesson served with a side order of patriot fries. Or rather, chips. Our headmaster had fought for his country, and for tolerance, all at once. That's what I understood it meant to be truly "British": to be polite, and civil and fair of mind. (And to occasionally wallop schoolkids with slippers, admittedly, but we'll overlook that, OK? We've moved on.)

But according to the BNP, I'm wrong. Being British is actually about feeling aggressed, mistrustful, overlooked, isolated, powerless, and petrified of "losing my identity". Britishness incorporates a propensity to look around me with jealous eyes, fuming over imaginary sums of money being doled out to child-molesting asylum-seekers by corrupt PC politicians who've lost touch with the common man - a common man who, coincidentally, happens to be white.

They're wrong, obviously. None of these qualities has anything whatsoever to do with being British, but everything to do with ugly nationalist politics. And ugly nationalist politics are popular all over the world. Just like Pringles. Every country has its own tiny enclave of frightened, disenfranchised, misguided souls clinging to their national flag, claiming they're the REAL patriots, saying everyone's out to get them. It's an international weakness. For the BNP to claim to be more British than the other British parties is as nonsensical as your dad suddenly claiming to have invented the beard.

The other day, the BNP had a political broadcast on the box. I wasn't in my beloved homeland at the time, but I heard about it, via internet chuckles of derision. Fellow geeky types tweeting about the poor production values. I looked it up on YouTube. Sure enough, it was badly made. No surprise there. Extremist material of any kind always looks gaudy and cheap, like a bad pizza menu. Not because they can't afford decent computers - these days you can knock up a professional CD cover on a pay-as-you-go mobile - but because anyone who's good at graphic design is likely to be a thoughtful, inquisitive sort by nature. And thoughtful, inquisitive sorts tend to think fascism is a bit shit, to be honest. If the BNP really were the greatest British party, they'd have the greatest British designer working for them - Jonathan Ive, perhaps, the man who designed the iPod. But they don't. They've got someone who tries to stab your eyes out with primary colours.

But there's more to the advert's failure than its hideous use of colour schemes. Every aspect of it is bad. The framing is bad. The sound is bad. The script is bad. For all their talk about representing the Great British Worker, when it comes to promotional material, the BNP can't even represent the most basic British craftsmanship.

Nick Griffin's first line is "Don't turn it off!", which in terms of opening gambits is about as enticing as hearing someone shout "Try not to be sick!" immediately prior to intercourse. He goes on to claim that, "We're all angry about professional politicians with their snouts in the public trough." He's right, we are: so angry we're prepared to instantly forget all the occasions we've fiddled our own expenses, thereby enabling us to add a dash of undeserved self-righteousness to our existing justified anger.

But by referring to "professional politicians", Griffin is presumably suggesting we should elect amateurs instead. Maybe that's why the advert's so amateurish. Maybe that's why all the BNP representatives in the ad read their lines so clumsily, like DFS employees in a bank holiday sale commercial circa 1986, or recently revived chemical coma patients being forced to recite barcode numbers at gunpoint. It's deliberate incompetence. Don't vote for those nasty slick parties. Vote for a shoddy one! Never mind the extremism, feel the ineptitude.

Here's a fantasy. We - the decent British majority - spend years toiling in secret, creating a life-size replica of Britain in the middle of the Pacific. It's identical down to the tiniest blade of grass, or branch of Gregg's. And one night, while every member of the BNP is asleep, we whisk them via helicopter to this replica UK, this Backup Britain. Put them in replica beds in replica homes. Then we fly back home to watch the fun on CCTV.

For several weeks, they walk around, confused, but pleased. The weather's nice! More importantly, there are no black faces! Then the infrastructure breaks down and they start to starve, and there's no one to blame but themselves. And then someone with GPS on their phone works out what's happened, realises they've all become immigrants in their own land. Half of them go mad and start attacking each other. The rest desperately apply for asylum in Britain. The real Britain. The decent, tolerant Britain. The country you can be proud of.

[Finnegan]

Charlie.

[Webbo]

I've made my views on anti-fascism clear on here before and come to blows with the likes of Webbo and Kilworth Tom over it, too.

I don't think I'd ever actively partake in violent protest in the fairly free, democratic environment we live in. But that said, if some antifa lard-ass wants to put his boot through a few thick, vulgar, racist, slimey, horrid little men then I'll not really shed a tear to be perfectly honest with you, Teeno.

It wasn't your anti fascist views that we argued about, I'm anti fascist myself, it was it was your nod and a wink to violent protest.

If 1 of these thick, vulgar, racist, slimey, horrid little men beat up some antifa lard arse I would expect you to demand the full weight of the law and then complain bitterly about the lenience of the sentence.

Who gives these self righteous thugs the right to decide who deserves a kicking?

[Fez of Mahrez]

It wasn't your anti fascist views that we argued about, I'm anti fascist myself, it was it was your nod and a wink to violent protest.

If 1 of these thick, vulgar, racist, slimey, horrid little men beat up some antifa lard arse I would expect you to demand the full weight of the law and then complain bitterly about the lenience of the sentence.

Who gives these self righteous thugs the right to decide who deserves a kicking?

Agree up to a point.

It's similar to the main parties' lazy condemnations of the BNP as "horrifying" etc. It's your fault Harman, Cameron, Clegg (those I've seen quoted). You need to be doing more.

This idea that "we can do what we like, but they will always be wrong because they're dirty racists" is a primal approach. It might be your first instinct. The BNP get me as angry as anyone initially but you need to think it all through before speaking or acting.

Because using violence in a public place on an elected member of parliament isn't anything for anyone to aspire to.

We have enough to defeat fascists without force.

[Finnegan]

Who gives these self righteous thugs the right to decide who deserves a kicking?

Not arguing with you in principal, like I said it's not something I'd partake in personally.

I'm merely saying that, quite frankly, I'm not going to shed a tear if someone who advocates oppressive, fascist racism gets the shit kicked out of them, really.

[l444ry]

Fascism is not a political current like any other and should not be treated as such. Fascists are dedicated to destroying every vestige of democracy and have no misgivings about using thuggery to get their way.

Mere words are not enough to defeat them – they must also be physically confronted and excluded from public space.

Fascists do not seek out public platforms in order to test the strength of their ideas. What they seek is the veneer of respectability that such platforms provide – a veneer they desperately need in the aftermath of the Second World War and Hitler’s Holocaust.

The mainstream parties of Germany’s post-war Weimar republic – conservative, liberal and social democrat – all united to condemn Hitler’s Nazis, but insisted that they had to be challenged only through constitutional means.

Once in power, Hitler threw into the concentration camps those very same people who had once defended his rights to “free speech”.

The BNP today stand in the same political tradition as Hitler. The BNP are not simply a bunch of obnoxious racists – they are an organised political force that deliberately aims at smashing up what little democracy we have at present and instituting a racial reign of terror.

They have a strategy for achieving those aims – a strategy that has worked in the past and can work again.

There is a strategy for stopping the fascist threat. It involves recognising that fascism is an exceptional threat to all of us, and that it cannot be treated as a legitimate form of politics. Any means should be used to prevent fascism from getting a toehold in public space. Resistance should not only be confined to legal or constitutional means.

That is why it is pointless to grant the fascists a platform in order to “defeat them in debate”. This stage-managed press conference would have done nothing to stop the fascists outside the formalities of the debating chamber.

Press conferences and debates do not deter the fascists from organising – on the contrary, fascists crave the respectability and legitimacy that such “debates” inevitably confer upon them.

What does defeat the fascists – and what they are most scared of – is mass grassroots opposition to their presence. That is how the Anti-Nazi League defeated the National Front in the 1970s and it is how it will defeat the BNP today.

[Webbo]

What does defeat the fascists – and what they are most scared of – is mass grassroots opposition to their presence. That is how the Anti-Nazi League defeated the National Front in the 1970s and it is how it will defeat the BNP today.

Only it didn't defeat them did it? They're here now, with elected representatives, just with a different name.

You'll never kick an opinion out of anyone's head. You just create more resentment and entrench views even further.

[Finnegan]

[dandannieldanok]

Here's the vid:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8091605.stm

Fair play to the protesters, I actually think the majority of protests are a waste of time but at least this one got the pr*cks to piss off.

[l444ry]

Only it didn't defeat them did it? They're here now, with elected representatives, just with a different name.

You'll never kick an opinion out of anyone's head. You just create more resentment and entrench views even further.

Prior to 1977, the NF were unstoppable and were well on the way to serious political gains. Then suddenly the Anti-Nazi League were everywhere and knocking the sheer hell out of them. The sheer presence of the ANL made it impossible to get NF members on to the streets, dashed recruitment and cut away at their vote. It wasn't just the physical opposition to the marches, they lost the propaganda war too.

Your argument is half-baked, Webbo. Are you also saying the Second World War was pointless as well?

[Webbo]

Prior to 1977, the NF were unstoppable and were well on the way to serious political gains.

Come off it, they were never anywhere near getting as much as a parish council seat and racism was a lot more acceptable in those days too.

[Zingari]

Not arguing with you in principal, like I said it's not something I'd partake in personally.

I'm merely saying that, quite frankly, I'm not going to shed a tear if someone who advocates oppressive, fascist racism gets the shit kicked out of them, really.

isn't that pretty much the same as not giving a shit about soldiers mistreating prisoners who they believe are trying to terrorise people into their way of belief ?

not trying to be argumentative but just interested in your justification

[l444ry]

Come off it, they were never anywhere near getting as much as a parish council seat and racism was a lot more acceptable in those days too.

Webbo!!!

I don't know what planet you were on when there were NF marches everywhere in the 70's. Probably the same one that doesn't accept that taxes rose under the Tories!!!

[Guest]

I have a vague recollection of a NF march down Melton Rd during the late 70s. I asked what it was all about, and was told, and I can remember feeling very sad.

[Zingari]

I have a vague recollection of a NF march down Melton Rd during the late 70s. I asked what it was all about, and was told, and I can remember feeling very sad.

so was I

they' d just won the European Cup hadn't they

[James.]

I see absolutely nothing wrong with throwing eggs at Griffin and as I said earlier I hope it happens every time he appears in public. Hardly violent is it. It's pretty funny in my view. It stopped him opening his mouth after all.

The man deserves ridicule for his views (past and present). Why flatter him with debate?

[Guest Bilo]

I see absolutely nothing wrong with throwing eggs at Griffin and as I said earlier I hope it happens every time he appears in public. Hardly violent is it. It's pretty funny in my view. It stopped him opening his mouth after all.

The man deserves ridicule for his views (past and present). Why flatter him with debate?

The funniest thing was seeing him speak afterwards with his hair dishevelled, eggstains on his suit and looking rather like a mad old fart. It made him look the idiot he really is.

[l444ry]

I have a vague recollection of a NF march down Melton Rd during the late 70s. I asked what it was all about, and was told, and I can remember feeling very sad.

In the May 1976 local elections their jewel in the crown was Leicester, where 48 candidates won 43,733 votes, nearly 20% of the total vote. In May 1977 119,000 votes were cast in favour of the NF in London and the Liberals were beaten in 33 out of 92 constituencies.

[stez]

So what you are saying is you won't vote for a party just becuase they are not racist, and instead would let a racist party win seats. You do not actively oppose racism. You think the issue of MP's expenses is more important than racial equality. This is an acceptable protest vote. What a load of rubbish.

who said it was solely because of the expenses?

also my not voting (should i ever make that decision) could let any party in i don't support, be they tories, liberal, labour, ukip not just the bnp.

[purpleronnie]

In the early 70's they got 40%+ of votes in some areas of london, the NF had over 20,000 members in the early 70's compared with around 14,000 BNP now, considering the population increase in the last 40 years it shows they we're much more popular back then.

[Shrenchel]

I see absolutely nothing wrong with throwing eggs at Griffin and as I said earlier I hope it happens every time he appears in public. Hardly violent is it. It's pretty funny in my view. It stopped him opening his mouth after all.

The man deserves ridicule for his views (past and present). Why flatter him with debate?

Gets him publicity though. It'll be in all the papers tomorrow and he got a five minute interview on the BBC news to talk about the incident and generally weave some of his bullshit into it. Far more coverage than his tinpot press conference would have got.

[James.]

Gets him publicity though. It'll be in all the papers tomorrow and he got a five minute interview on the BBC news to talk about the incident and generally weave some of his bullshit into it. Far more coverage than his tinpot press conference would have got.

Yeah you're right but I'm not convinced the coverage will really be of any benefit to his party. The BNP are all over the papers as it is. Throwing a few eggs and seeing him talk with egg all over his face will hopefully make people wonder why he's such a twat and why he encourages such actions. I really do think ridicule is a decent weapon to use.

[Daggers]

I really do think ridicule is a decent weapon to use.

I think it's the best weapon.

Unless it's Teeno - ridiculing his posts would be like pulling faces at the kids in the minibus which collects our neighbour's Downs Syndrome daughter.

[Webbo]

Webbo!!!

I don't know what planet you were on when there were NF marches everywhere in the 70's. Probably the same one that doesn't accept that taxes rose under the Tories!!!

So they went on marches, so did the Boys Brigade. They never had a single seat. They were just a nasty irrelevance.

As for the tax question did you find any proof to prove me wrong?