FAO BNP Voters (And BNP Haters)

[Edmund]

Yes I did, completely no different to the many black and Asain group/societies. However that isn't viewed as racist.

True he has got us there. I couldn't decide wether to vote for the Black Panthers or the BBC (Black Boys Clan)

[Daggers]

Webbo!!!

I don't know what planet you were on when there were NF marches everywhere in the 70's. Probably the same one that doesn't accept that taxes rose under the Tories!!!

And early '80s

[Kilworthfox]

I've made my views on anti-fascism clear on here before and come to blows with the likes of Webbo and Kilworth Tom over it, too.

I don't think I'd ever actively partake in violent protest in the fairly free, democratic environment we live in. But that said, if some antifa lard-ass wants to put his boot through a few thick, vulgar, racist, slimey, horrid little men then I'll not really shed a tear to be perfectly honest with you, Teeno.

Never blown me Webbo?

[Webbo]

Never blown me Webbo?

Yeah, but he never swallowed.

[Finnegan]

isn't that pretty much the same as not giving a shit about soldiers mistreating prisoners who they believe are trying to terrorise people into their way of belief ?

not trying to be argumentative but just interested in your justification

Only if you think chasing off a few fascists giving a speech and throwing eggs and the odd punch is as bad as hours of inhumane torture?

[Zingari]

Only if you think chasing off a few fascists giving a speech and throwing eggs and the odd punch is as bad as hours of inhumane torture?

go back to your original post and you said that you "didn't care if they got the shit kicked out of them " hardly the same thing as suffering a bit of egg throwing

[Finnegan]

I think it's the best weapon.

Unless it's Teeno - ridiculing his posts would be like pulling faces at the kids in the minibus which collects our neighbour's Downs Syndrome daughter.

[Finnegan]

go back to your original post and you said that you "didn't care if they got the shit kicked out of them " hardly the same thing as suffering a bit of egg throwing

Still. Getting into a fight isn't really comparable to hours, days, months or years of inhumane torture either, is it?

I'm not being funny - I know there are plenty of critcisms you could make on my views of fair treatment for the BNP - but that's a pretty dense argument if you're honest.

[Kilworthfox]

Only if you think chasing off a few fascists giving a speech and throwing eggs and the odd punch is as bad as hours of inhumane torture?

Individuals are weak morally and when in a group they can become easily lead by those who have agendas from any political leaning. To say one is better than the other because of personal political leanings is fooling yourself.

Shit happens, if life were a game try not to get too hung up with the "off the ball issues" and try to get through as unscathed as possible.

[Finnegan]

Individuals are weak morally and when in a group they can become easily lead by those who have agendas from any political leaning. To say one is better than the other because of personal political leanings is fooling yourself.

Shit happens, if life were a game try not to get too hung up with the "off the ball issues" and try to get through as unscathed as possible.

End of the day, Tom, if the BNP got their way Britain would scarily represent Nazi Germany. If Antifa England (pure example) got their way it would look more like Huggy Gummy Fairy Smurf Land.

No doubt by the end of this argument I'll have had to point out seven million more times that I don't personally believe violence, from either side, will solve our ills because it will suit the arguments of Webbo, Zingari and co' to try and make me look like a wannabe violent tit to discredit my point.

But the fact is, there's litttle in the world that isn't better than the BNP, Combat 18, the NF and whoever the fuck else and that includes militiant antifa.

[l444ry]

So they went on marches, so did the Boys Brigade. They never had a single seat. They were just a nasty irrelevance.

As for the tax question did you find any proof to prove me wrong?

Sorry. Didn't realise you were taking that ludicrous Adam Smith Institute nonsense so seriously. As they support the Tories it is obvious they would rig the figures. The Institute of Fiscal Studies statistics are far more reputable-:

http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/cgi/news/release?id=39485

[Zingari]

to Finners ;

i'd wrote something but Kilworth said it better

[Finnegan]

to Finners ;

i'd wrote something but Kilworth said it better

And I don't, fundamentally, disagree with either of you. I'd love a non-violent world and I don't think having brawls in the street is going to make Britain (or the world) a better place.

But if a few heavies in hoods thinking they're El Che want to go and intimidate Nick Griffin and his cronies out of preaching their hate in public? Fine by me. Do it with eggs? Even better, even funnier.

[Zingari]

And I don't, fundamentally, disagree with either of you. I'd love a non-violent world and I don't think having brawls in the street is going to make Britain (or the world) a better place.

But if a few heavies in hoods thinking they're El Che want to go and intimidate Nick Griffin and his cronies out of preaching their hate in public? Fine by me. Do it with eggs? Even better, even funnier.

fair play chap

[Kilworthfox]

End of the day, Tom, if the BNP got their way Britain would scarily represent Nazi Germany. If Antifa England (pure example) got their way it would look more like Huggy Gummy Fairy Smurf Land.

No doubt by the end of this argument I'll have had to point out seven million more times that I don't personally believe violence, from either side, will solve our ills because it will suit the arguments of Webbo, Zingari and co' to try and make me look like a wannabe violent tit to discredit my point.

But the fact is, there's litttle in the world that isn't better than the BNP, Combat 18, the NF and whoever the fuck else and that includes militiant antifa.

Fair enough, but the BNP in power because some Yorky nobbers turn up when people are pissed off with politicians over the expenses scandals? It is not going to happen on mass. Look at the posts in this thread how many people agree the majority? Take this thread as a microcosm of public opinion. There are many idiots on here and outside in the fresh air.

I think you know far too much about hostile right wing groups.

Personally I have never written anything with militant, antifa, BNP, or NAZI in a paragraph, as I don't have the interest in it from this side of the arguement. I have an interest in German history which includes the period of 1933 -1945.

It is none of my business what you do or think, but your writing is odd from my point of view as you write with such interest and intensity when in reality these things which go on are not impinging on your life to the best of my knowledge.

[Webbo]

Sorry. Didn't realise you were taking that ludicrous Adam Smith Institute nonsense so seriously. As they support the Tories it is obvious they would rig the figures. The Institute of Fiscal Studies statistics are far more reputable-:

http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/cgi/news/release?id=39485

CONFIRMED: TORY BETRAYAL ON TAXES -- TEXT OF IFS DOCUMENT

"The tax burden is exactly the same as it was five years ago" John Major said this morning (9th April).

TAXES UP SINCE THE LAST ELECTION

The IFS report confirms that taxes are higher than in 1992.

* Between 1991-92 "Across the population and summing all taxes there has been a real tax increase of £11.5bn."

* Between 91-92 and 96-97 ".. we find average losses of £7 per week."

* Between 91-92 and 96-97 "people right at the bottom and in the middle of the income distribution have lost most - over 3% of their post tax income."

* Between 1991-92 and 96-97 "the largest average losses were for working couples..... an average loss of £13.70."

* "a total discretionary tax increase this parliament of £525 per year per UK household." (p31)

TAXES HIGHER THAN IN 1979

IFS analysis confirms that taxes are now higher than in 1979.

* "over the period 1978-79 to 1997/98, we see a clear... increase in the tax level, from 34.25% to 36.25%." (p3)

THE EFFECT OF 22 TORY TAX BETRAYALS ON FAMILIES

Family Type Weekly Average Loss Annual Average Loss

Single Unemployed £2.60 £135

Single Employed £7.40 £385

Single Parent Family £4.30 £224

No earner couple,

no children £5.90 £307

No earner couple

with children £4.00 £208

Single earner couple

no children £10.40 £541

Single earner couple

with children £12.70 £660

Two earner couple

no children £11.20 £582

Two earner couple

with children £13.70 £712

Single pensioners £0.80 £42

Pensioner Couple £2.40 £125

All £7.00 £364

Source: IFS tax and benefit model

THE EFFECT OF 22 TORY TAX BETRAYALS ON A TYPICAL FAMILY

Financial Year Overall Tax Burden

1992-93 32.7%

1997-98 35.1%

Source: Treasury Parliamentary Answer 11th December 96

Financial Year Direct Tax Burden

1992-93 20.2%

1997-98 20.7%

Source: Treasury Parliamentary Answer 11th December 96

Financial Year Indirect Tax Burden

1992-93 12.5%

1997-98 14.4%

Source: Treasury Parliamentary Answer 11th December 96

THE EFFECT OF 22 TORY TAX BETRAYALS ON THE OVERALL TAX BURDEN.

Financial Year Tax as a % of national income

1992 Election 1992-93 34.5%

1997 Election 1997-98 36.25%

Source: Financial Statement and Budget Report 1997-98, Table 4A.9

Advisory to editors:

UNS does not warrant or make any representations regarding the correctness, accuracy or reliability of the contents of the press release. Under no circumstances shall UNS be liable for damages resulting from the use of information contained in the press release. All facts should be independently checked.

Distributed by PR Newswire on behalf of The Labour Party

Yeah, that's far more impartial.

[Fosse Boy]

Must say I've been heartily encouraged by the amount of anti-BNP sentiment flying around on facebook over the past couple of days, gives me a little more faith in British youth with regards to their perceived political apathy.

But then I have to wonder how many of these people actually bothered to take an active stance on this and vote (provided they were old enough of course).

[Bellend Sebastian]

I think this so called 'White working class' is nothing but trouble, with their Oasis records and Pot Noodles. The sooner they're all shipped off to Van Diemen's land, the better

[Shrenchel]

http://extras.thesun.co.uk/flash/nick_griffin/shoot.html

[TrickyTrev]

While most if not all of the above is undoubtedly true, vilification alone is not enough. They're the political equivalent of Millllllllllllllllll. So they won't give a toss if others despise them.

Other parties have to raise their game and regain their credibility, through promoting credible policies and delivering positive change to the public.

Oh, and bombing out the greedy fcukwits with their hands in the till, as well.

And stop saying that people who vote for the BNP do so 'as a protest against politics.' There is absolutely no evidence for this and it completely ignores the issue. As far as I can tell people vote for the BNP for two reasons...

1) They are hateful racists

2) They think immigration is really bad for the economy

Now a lot of the people who think 2) will be doing so because of 1). There is pretty much nothing you can do about such idiots, they exist but will thankfully always be in a minority. But there are also a lot of people who believe 2) but could not accurately described by 1)

These people should not vote BNP. The fact that thousands of them have done so represent a failure on their part to look properly at the party they are voting for. But just as much it represents a failure of the mainstream political parties to put forward a case for immigration. Now, I think there is a good case for mass immigration, but it requires politicians actually dealing with an issue and being honest with people.

Firstly one or two simple truths can't be ignored

Immigration does drive down wages

The government does not have any control on immigration from Europe, it has agreed this with the EU

But it shouldn't be that hard for intelligent people to realise that this is a price worth paying

For having an NHS

For having a social security system

For employers to be able to fill the gaps that they need

For the opportunity to live in a pluralist society

Politicians should be ashamed of themselves for failing to put a coherent case in favor of mass immigration. It isn't difficult to do. If they don't believe in mass immigration they should say so and offer an alternative in mainstream politics which doesn't involve transparent racism.

It's a total mess that we have the BNP winning seats in National elections, not one that I see being cleaned up.

[Koke]

Must say I've been heartily encouraged by the amount of anti-BNP sentiment flying around on facebook over the past couple of days, gives me a little more faith in British youth with regards to their perceived political apathy.

But then I have to wonder how many of these people actually bothered to take an active stance on this and vote (provided they were old enough of course).

When push comes to shove, BNP will never hold any sway in this country - I have faith in the British electorate that we are too string minded for them to have a proper chance at dominance.

[ASH17LCFC]

When push comes to shove, BNP will never hold any sway in this country - I have faith in the British electorate that we are too string minded for them to have a proper chance at dominance.

Again why are people worried ? They will never come into power. They won 2 seats !! Hardly the end of the world is it ?

I think people have over reacted on this thread.

You want to flirt with Essex fox, go do it in private. You want to go off topic talking shit on a 24 page thread of fairly reasonable debate? Don't come crying if it's deleted.

[gazzer]

Firstly one or two simple truths can't be ignored

Immigration does drive down wages

Really can you prove that?

Are you talking about mean or median wages? or total wages?

Does it drive down wages for a job that wouldn't have been filled otherwise?

Doesn't it increase GDP?

Are there no new jobs created?

Surely all this extra work that's going on is adding value to the Economy contributing to growth.

simple truth? Hell of an economist you are.

I think you'll find most unemployment today is a result of manufacturing and engineering being destroyed under Thatcher( including the mining industry and the other utilities). That was where all Mr. Griffin's pale mates got shafted, not because they weren't prepared to do a bit of painting and decorating for a reasonable price. Still, we we taught them Argies a lesson !!!

Labour are certainly in a mess right now, but I hope to God those Tories don't get back in at the next election.

[Tommy G]

I take it the people in this thread moaning about the BNP getting in actually got off their arse and voted?

[StanSP]

I take it the people in this thread moaning about the BNP getting in actually got off their arse and voted?

I did. Voted for UKIP.