Date Rape

[AoWW]

Just wanted to vent really.... I'm watching the Nicky Campbell debate on TV at the moment - on whether date rape can ever be a woman's fault - and am literally shouting at the TV.

Yes, I agree that, in principle, no should always be no - without question. But the situations some women put themselves in leaves me truly incredulous. They've just been talking to a girl (late teens/early 20s) who, with a friend, got in a car with a stranger who offered them a lift, because they'd missed the last bus home. The friend decided she wanted to be dropped off elsewhere leaving this girl alone with the guy. She then invites him in for a drink - because he'd been kind and given her a lift. She freely admitted she was drunk, "not too drunk though, I could still see and talk", but she was drunk enough to fall asleep with a stranger in her house and not wake up until he was having intercourse with her. I'm sorry, and I'm sure I'm doing a huge disservice to womankind, but what a fucking stupid situation to get yourself in and then cry rape.

I hate to say that I feel some women do 'ask for it' because no should mean no and men should respect that - but I also believe women need to take some responsibility for their own actions. It makes me angry - fine, no woman 'deserves' to be raped but surely situations like I've described above are very different to women who've been raped while they're going about their daily routine and are dragged off the street at knifepoint by a complete stranger? I can honestly - hand on heart say - that if I'd been in that situation I'd feel compelled to accept some responsibility myself.

Rant over.

[Zingari]

Just wanted to vent really.... I'm watching the Nicky Campbell debate on TV at the moment - on whether date rape can ever be a woman's fault - and am literally shouting at the TV.

Yes, I agree that, in principle, no should always be no - without question. But the situations some women put themselves in leaves me truly incredulous. They've just been talking to a girl (late teens/early 20s) who, with a friend, got in a car with a stranger who offered them a lift, because they'd missed the last bus home. The friend decided she wanted to be dropped off elsewhere leaving this girl alone with the guy. She then invites him in for a drink - because he'd been kind and given her a lift. She freely admitted she was drunk, "not too drunk though, I could still see and talk", but she was drunk enough to fall asleep with a stranger in her house and not wake up until he was having intercourse with her. I'm sorry, and I'm sure I'm doing a huge disservice to womankind, but what a fucking stupid situation to get yourself in and then cry rape.

I hate to say that I feel some women do 'ask for it' because no should mean no and men should respect that - but I also believe women need to take some responsibility for their own actions. It makes me angry - fine, no woman 'deserves' to be raped but surely situations like I've described above are very different to women who've been raped while they're going about their daily routine and are dragged off the street at knifepoint by a complete stranger? I can honestly - hand on heart say - that if I'd been in that situation I'd feel compelled to accept some responsibility myself.

Rant over.

did this all happen during the mike macintyre show ?

http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/index.ph...0&start=100

[Webbo]

Just wanted to vent really.... I'm watching the Nicky Campbell debate on TV at the moment - on whether date rape can ever be a woman's fault - and am literally shouting at the TV.

Yes, I agree that, in principle, no should always be no - without question. But the situations some women put themselves in leaves me truly incredulous. They've just been talking to a girl (late teens/early 20s) who, with a friend, got in a car with a stranger who offered them a lift, because they'd missed the last bus home. The friend decided she wanted to be dropped off elsewhere leaving this girl alone with the guy. She then invites him in for a drink - because he'd been kind and given her a lift. She freely admitted she was drunk, "not too drunk though, I could still see and talk", but she was drunk enough to fall asleep with a stranger in her house and not wake up until he was having intercourse with her. I'm sorry, and I'm sure I'm doing a huge disservice to womankind, but what a fucking stupid situation to get yourself in and then cry rape.

I hate to say that I feel some women do 'ask for it' because no should mean no and men should respect that - but I also believe women need to take some responsibility for their own actions. It makes me angry - fine, no woman 'deserves' to be raped but surely situations like I've described above are very different to women who've been raped while they're going about their daily routine and are dragged off the street at knifepoint by a complete stranger? I can honestly - hand on heart say - that if I'd been in that situation I'd feel compelled to accept some responsibility myself.

Rant over.

Hmm, difficult one this. There have been cases in the media where women have got drunk had sex and then changed their minds the next day, which obviously isn't rape. But the situation you've just described I'd have to say that was rape.

[Corky]

Hmm, difficult one this. There have been cases in the media where women have got drunk had sex and then changed their minds the next day, which obviously isn't rape. But the situation you've just described I'd have to say that was rape.

This.

However, they should think very carefully about who they accept lifts from, because you just don't know what strangers will be like.

[Guest]

Hmm, difficult one this. There have been cases in the media where women have got drunk had sex and then changed their minds the next day, which obviously isn't rape. But the situation you've just described I'd have to say that was rape.

Don't think the point was that it wasn't rape, which it seems to clearly be, more that it's just an utterly stupid position to put herself in really

[Bellend Sebastian]

I once went to bed with someone that practically begged me to shag them, when we were both pissed up. I didn't particularly want to, but caved in eventually. The next day she had a right go at me and said I was a bad man for shagging her. Nothing came of it other than her being a royal pain in the arse for a few months afterwards, but I realised at the time that if someone decides to be a twat, you could find yourself right in the shit. Which doesn't help genuine rape victims a jot, obviously

[Shrenchel]

Just wanted to vent really.... I'm watching the Nicky Campbell debate on TV at the moment - on whether date rape can ever be a woman's fault - and am literally shouting at the TV.

Yes, I agree that, in principle, no should always be no - without question. But the situations some women put themselves in leaves me truly incredulous. They've just been talking to a girl (late teens/early 20s) who, with a friend, got in a car with a stranger who offered them a lift, because they'd missed the last bus home. The friend decided she wanted to be dropped off elsewhere leaving this girl alone with the guy. She then invites him in for a drink - because he'd been kind and given her a lift. She freely admitted she was drunk, "not too drunk though, I could still see and talk", but she was drunk enough to fall asleep with a stranger in her house and not wake up until he was having intercourse with her. I'm sorry, and I'm sure I'm doing a huge disservice to womankind, but what a fucking stupid situation to get yourself in and then cry rape.

I hate to say that I feel some women do 'ask for it' because no should mean no and men should respect that - but I also believe women need to take some responsibility for their own actions. It makes me angry - fine, no woman 'deserves' to be raped but surely situations like I've described above are very different to women who've been raped while they're going about their daily routine and are dragged off the street at knifepoint by a complete stranger? I can honestly - hand on heart say - that if I'd been in that situation I'd feel compelled to accept some responsibility myself.

Rant over.

"Cry rape". She was raped!Why shouldn't she tell people?!

I don't really understand what the point you're trying to make is? Her actions contributed more to her own rape than someone that is just grabbed from the street? Clearly, but that doesn't make her responsible in any way. To suggest that it does is to be honest pretty disugusting.

[Cat Burger]

If you look at the semantics of the word, a person cannot be responsible for their own rape, so I'd say no.

[Guest Bilo]

It is a very difficult subject to judge.

The situation described here sounds, at the very best, like a man taking advantage of her stupidity and irresponsibility and thinking with his cock. At worst, it is rape. I have to say that AoWW has a good point in that the woman got herself into a very compromising situation, but the fact that the bloke was sober enough to drive her home suggests he knew exactly was he doing and deliberately took advantage. That's why I lean towards the latter and call it rape. I can understand why people might blame her though because she was unbelievably irresponsible, and the guy may well have thought she was leading me on. That certainly doesn't excuse his actions though, because they are pretty fooking disgusting.

[Shrenchel]

It is a very difficult subject to judge.

The situation described here sounds, at the very best, like a man taking advantage of her stupidity and irresponsibility and thinking with his cock. At worst, it is rape. I have to say that AoWW has a good point in that the woman got herself into a very compromising situation, but the fact that the bloke was sober enough to drive her home suggests he knew exactly was he doing and deliberately took advantage. That's why I lean towards the latter and call it rape. I can understand why people might blame her though because she was unbelievably irresponsible, and the guy may well have thought she was leading me on. That certainly doesn't excuse his actions though, because they are pretty fooking disgusting.

I don't see what the geezer being sober enough to drive her home has to with anything? Since when has being pissed been an excuse for committing any crime, especially rape?!

[Guest Bilo]

I don't see what the geezer being sober enough to drive her home has to with anything? Since when has being pissed been an excuse for committing any crime, especially rape?!

I doesn't excuse any crime (even pissed this would be reprehensible), but it would make you more likely to commit a crime as alcohol affects your judgement. The fact that the bloke didn't have alcohol to cloud his judgement makes it even worse than it would be if he were drunk.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

"Cry rape". She was raped!Why shouldn't she tell people?!

I don't really understand what the point you're trying to make is? Her actions contributed more to her own rape than someone that is just grabbed from the street? Clearly, but that doesn't make her responsible in any way. To suggest that it does is to be honest pretty disugusting.

The big problem here is that with rape generally there are only two sides to the story, one from each corner which makes it very difficult to establish any truth. In this case, by admitting she had consumed alcohol this puts her version of events into doubt, as although she says she had drunk some but not too much, that is purely a subjective statement.

And I have to agree with the original poster, that the whole series of events beggars belief. There were countless opportunities for the incident to be avoided - not accepting the lift, getting out with her friend, not inviting him in, not drinking with him, etc, etc. From the account given, she made herself very vunerable and has to at least accept that she was very foolish indeed.

[Trav Le Bleu]

She freely admitted she was drunk, "not too drunk though, I could still see and talk"

I've always wondered what the borderline was between being drunk and too drunk.

The whole date rape situation is just fraught with differing possibilities. The point at which "no" is said is surely the crucial point - say it early and definitely and there can be no misunderstanding.

[Guest Bilo]

The big problem here is that with rape generally there are only two sides to the story, one from each corner which makes it very difficult to establish any truth. In this case, by admitting she had consumed alcohol this puts her version of events into doubt, as although she says she had drunk some but not too much, that is purely a subjective statement.

And I have to agree with the original poster, that the whole series of events beggars belief. There were countless opportunities for the incident to be avoided - not accepting the lift, getting out with her friend, not inviting him in, not drinking with him, etc, etc. From the account given, she made herself very vunerable and has to at least accept that she was very foolish indeed.

Of course you could also argue he could have declined her invite to go in and driven home, could have turned down the drink and could have offered to sleep on the sofa. He took advantage of her foolishness in my opinion, even if she did leave herself open to it.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Of course you could also argue he could have declined her invite to go in and driven home, could have turned down the drink and could have offered to sleep on the sofa. He took advantage of her foolishness in my opinion, even if she did leave herself open to it.

True indeed, but I feel you have to take a bit of responsability for your own personal saftey. It's like someone running out in front of a speeding driver and getting knocked over - yeah the man speeding is a prat, but equally what was that person doing getting in the way!

[The People's Hero]

It is a very difficult subject to judge.

The situation described here sounds, at the very best, like a man taking advantage of her stupidity and irresponsibility and thinking with his cock. At worst, it is rape. I have to say that AoWW has a good point in that the woman got herself into a very compromising situation, but the fact that the bloke was sober enough to drive her home suggests he knew exactly was he doing and deliberately took advantage. That's why I lean towards the latter and call it rape. I can understand why people might blame her though because she was unbelievably irresponsible, and the guy may well have thought she was leading me on. That certainly doesn't excuse his actions though, because they are pretty fooking disgusting.

Ooo-err.

[Guest Bilo]

Ooo-err.

I did notice that but it was a little too late.

Most definitely not a slip of the Freudian variety I promise.

[Katy]

If someone is too out of it to say 'no' then the intercourse shouldn't take place. The bloke certainly shouldn't blame the bird for it afterwards....

[Daggers]

I bet this thread goes well.

[General Smuts]

I have 2 words to say about this thread that entirely proves the point above.

Bit rapey.

[Steven]

Hmm, difficult one this. There have been cases in the media where women have got drunk had sex and then changed their minds the next day, which obviously isn't rape. But the situation you've just described I'd have to say that was rape.

Sadly a bit like this woman who I hope does hard time. <_<

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11...t-ex-lover.html

[Guest]

I have 2 words to say about this thread that entirely proves the point above.

Bit rapey.

I saw a shop in Hong Kong and thought of you....

[BoneDog]

The woman in the first post was a bit stupid yes. But it's not her fault that the bloke was a psycho who went out with date rape drugs in his pocket with evil intentions. She was probably just naive and never expected anyone to do such things.

The bloke wants choppin up.

EDIT : sorry, I've just re-read and realised there was no mention of date-rape drugs. The title made me think that

[ozleicester]

Nothing difficult about this at all.

If you do not have consent..it is rape!

If consent is retracted..you stop, or it is rape!

For crying out loud, if you are not capable of controlling your urges and yourself you shouldnt be walking the streets.

IT IS RAPE!

[Guest]

Nothing difficult about this at all.

If you do not have consent..it is rape!

If consent is retracted..you stop, or it is rape!

For crying out loud, if you are not capable of controlling your urges and yourself you shouldnt be walking the streets.

IT IS RAPE!

Exactly.