UKIP call for Burka ban.

[acooling08]

Surely security is more important than the rights of these women. Why should they be exempt from being searched etc?

On Saturday in the High Cross a group of teenagers wearing hoodies were asked to take them down or leave even though they were minding their own business and causing no trouble at all. Meanwhile a couple of muslim women in full face veil things strolled by. Would the security guards tell them to take their scarfs off for security reasons? No chance.

That really pissed me off.

[Finnegan]

The hoody argument really fucks me off.

For two, main, reasons. First and foremost because there's absolutely no cultural, social, religious or historic reason why anyone should need to wear a hood in doors.

Secondly because it isn't an undeserved stereotype that, for the most part, gangs of teens all loitering in a shopping center are prone to be anti-social or rowdy. Businesses don't like you hanging around loitering regardless of what you're wearing.

The fact of the matter is that security firms, CCTV officers, retail managers and all number of inner-city workers are prejudice. They have to have a certain degree of prejudice and they have to be able to judge likely risks. A woman wearing a burkha isn't a likely risk, experience tells them she's going to be quiet, polite and she's going to drift in and out of the store without bothering anyone.

Experience tells them a group of hoody chavs are going to be mouthy, intimidate customers (intentionally or not) and are far more likely to be rowdy and give grief.

It's not overly PC, it's not hypocrisy, it's common sense. If teen culture wants to stop being branded thugs and hooligans then teen culture should probably stop impersonating thugs and hooligans - and don't take me for some boring old, mid-life, balding twat. I'm twenty three and had a wicked time in my teens and as a student, getting pissed and getting loud - but people are people. To the little old lovey in the street with her hand-bag-on-wheels Islamic women aren't scary, loud teenage males are.

[Geo V]

Burkas? Yeah Joanna Lumley has been there biggest fan

[Finnegan]

Burkas? Yeah Joanna Lumley has been there biggest fan

I've already cracked that joke. NOBODY laughed.

So I'll give you a pity laugh.

[Geo V]

I've already cracked that joke. NOBODY laughed.

So I'll give you a pity laugh.

Oh shit, I might have to read through 18 months worth of stuff before I can post again in case I repeat myself

Mate, for the record, the joke was terrible and as you were apparently first, I must say that you should be ashamed of yourself

[davieG]

The hoody argument really ****s me off.

For two, main, reasons. First and foremost because there's absolutely no cultural, social, religious or historic reason why anyone should need to wear a hood in doors.

Secondly because it isn't an undeserved stereotype that, for the most part, gangs of teens all loitering in a shopping center are prone to be anti-social or rowdy. Businesses don't like you hanging around loitering regardless of what you're wearing.

The fact of the matter is that security firms, CCTV officers, retail managers and all number of inner-city workers are prejudice. They have to have a certain degree of prejudice and they have to be able to judge likely risks. A woman wearing a burkha isn't a likely risk, experience tells them she's going to be quiet, polite and she's going to drift in and out of the store without bothering anyone.

Experience tells them a group of hoody chavs are going to be mouthy, intimidate customers (intentionally or not) and are far more likely to be rowdy and give grief.

It's not overly PC, it's not hypocrisy, it's common sense. If teen culture wants to stop being branded thugs and hooligans then teen culture should probably stop impersonating thugs and hooligans - and don't take me for some boring old, mid-life, balding twat. I'm twenty three and had a wicked time in my teens and as a student, getting pissed and getting loud - but people are people. To the little old lovey in the street with her hand-bag-on-wheels Islamic women aren't scary, loud teenage males are.

What about a 60 year old being asked to remove a baseball cap on entering a pub, am I perceived as a risk?

Not that I'm too fussed about any of it.

[Bryn]

Its a male domination thing, because its not part of the Qu'ran.

I'm sure it's not always a male domination thing. I'm sure some women choose to express their faith in such a way. Hence why I specifically worded my statement as "A women forced to wear" one is disgusting. And why I advocate education and public policy expressing that one is not necessary, and should therefore only be worn as a personal choice.

[Geo V]

What about a 60 year old being asked to remove a baseball cap on entering a pub, am I perceived as a risk?

Not that I'm too fussed about any of it.

Being 60 you shouldnt be wearing anything on your head apart from a cheap wig. The old gits of today are terrible

[Finnegan]

What about a 60 year old being asked to remove a baseball cap on entering a pub, am I perceived as a risk?

Not that I'm too fussed about any of it.

Yeah, see, that's retarded. But it's not strictly the government's fault it's just stupidity.

[Houdini Logic]

What about a 60 year old being asked to remove a baseball cap on entering a pub, am I perceived as a risk?

Not that I'm too fussed about any of it.

If you're going to make an 18 year old take off their hat then you should ask a 60 year old to take it off

[Houdini Logic]

I've already cracked that joke. NOBODY laughed.

So I'll give you a pity laugh.

Ha, I did notice that post actually - actually thought 'ahh bless em', didn't realise it was an attempt at humour

In fact still not convinced...

[davieG]

If you're going to make an 18 year old take off their hat then you should ask a 60 year old to take it off

I was responding to the perceived risk from a teen hoody and someone wearing the Burka. I think statistically at least, and surely that's what the hoody/burka risk is based on a 60 year is much less likely to be a threat than a teen+ in a baseball cap.

I'm sure there's no malice intended and it's done because like most rules it's easier to include everyone rather than identify exclusions.

[Houdini Logic]

I was responding to the perceived risk from a teen hoody and someone wearing the Burka. I think statistically at least, and surely that's what the hoody/burka risk is based on a 60 year is much less likely to be a threat than a teen+ in a baseball cap.

I'm sure there's no malice intended and it's done because like most rules it's easier to include everyone rather than identify exclusions.

I agree with your second point.

I think the term 'teen hoody' is actually identifying an exclusion and as such I think it's a dangerous area.

Hoody's and baseball caps are banned in many public places because they are used by a number of people to disguise their identity when commiting crime/causing trouble. To my knowledge Burka's haven't been used as such a tool for these kinds of acts and although they could potentially be used, so could a clown suit.

So for now, until they are used otherwise, neither clown suits nor Burkas should be banned from public places.

[davieG]

I agree with your second point.

I think the term 'teen hoody' is actually identifying an exclusion and as such I think it's a dangerous area.

Hoody's and baseball caps are banned in many public places because they are used by a number of people to disguise their identity when commiting crime/causing trouble. To my knowledge Burka's haven't been used as such a tool for these kinds of acts and although they could potentially be used, so could a clown suit.

So for now, until they are used otherwise, neither clown suits nor Burkas should be banned from public places.

I bet if I tried to enter a pub on a matchday dressed as a clown with full make up I'd be refused entry. It's not the cap or hoody it's any 'disguise' that hinders the use of CCTV.

[Jon the Hat]

What about a 60 year old being asked to remove a baseball cap on entering a pub, am I perceived as a risk?

Not that I'm too fussed about any of it.

Nah, then just want to feel superior cos they still have their hair Let them have their little vistory.

[acooling08]

Actually when I was in Rome, their was this women in our hotel who had a pouch on her leg under her cape-thing and she was stuffing bread rolls in there!

[Matt]

Was listening to the radio the other day, think it was Kerrang, and the presenter said she'd just come back of holiday in Tunisia or Egypt forget where now, and in her hotel there was Male, Female and mixed Sauna's, she decided to go in the Female Sauna when she went in, there were 3 or 4 women in there wearing full Burkas. Madness.

She was saying anything bad against obviously, neither am I, just saying they must be crazy to go in a Sauna wearing it.

[Koke]

Its a male domination thing, because its not part of the Qu'ran.

This makes as much sense as the police going into the homes of domestic abusers and telling the woman that she can no longer wear silk nighties or just plain knickers since some men force women to wear such things. Between being beaten, forced to cook and clean, the verbal, physical and sexual abuse, I’m sure that woman will be happy she no longer needs to wear that silk nighty. Even if she actually enjoyed the feel of silk she will be happier. And hey, if we have to fine or arrest HER in order to make her life better then remember it’s for her own good.

The reality is any women wearing a veil is far enough into the religion that the government FORCING her to remove the veil will have no substantial effect. For her to be free and liberated she must be allowed to make a choice.

I come from quite a liberal family. My mum didn't give a shit what we wore, what we did, as long as her daughters didn't come home pregnant. My uncle is a dirty old man who taught me how to go down on a woman. But he's so far removed from religion, and yet his two daughters wear burkas. Male domination my arse.

The fact of the matter is that security firms, CCTV officers, retail managers and all number of inner-city workers are prejudice. They have to have a certain degree of prejudice and they have to be able to judge likely risks. A woman wearing a burkha isn't a likely risk, experience tells them she's going to be quiet, polite and she's going to drift in and out of the store without bothering anyone.

Experience tells them a group of hoody chavs are going to be mouthy, intimidate customers (intentionally or not) and are far more likely to be rowdy and give grief.

I'm 26 next month, and since 2006 I have been stopped twice at Heathrow and once at Kings Cross station and was stripped searched under the terrorism act [how they knew a lanky black bastard in a suit like me was Muslim, I will never quite know], but experience tells them that a 26 year old Muslim male is more risk to them than a 45 year white English female. That is a fact of life. Equally, a young hoody chav is more likely to commit misdemeanours than woman with veil on. To put in a Chris Rock mode; When I go to the ATM cash machine late at night to withdraw money, I don't look over my shoulders for veiled women. I look over my shoulders for young chavs with hoodies on.

[Hethern_Fox]

About bloody time a 'mainstream' party proposes this France has a similar ban; about time we have the same.

totally agree

[Houdini Logic]

totally agree

because... ?

[Finnegan]

To put in a Chris Rock mode; When I go to the ATM cash machine late at night to withdraw money, I don't look over my shoulders for veiled women. I look over my shoulders for young chavs with hoodies on.

I love that skit.

[z-layrex]

If the women that wear Burka's are happy, and it is their own choice to do so, and they love Britain, then I hav no problem with it at all. Most Muslim people I meet are way more polite and friendly than your average non-muslim Brit anyway.

[Finnegan]

I fucking hate Britain. Can I be deported?

[Matt]

Tory MP attacks 'offensive' burka

A Tory MP attacked the wearing of the burka in public, saying it was offensive for women to want to be cut off from face-to-face contact with others.

Philip Hollobone said he had "huge sympathy" with those who backed a ban on the face-covering veil in public places, claiming it was the religious equivalent of "going round with a paper bag over your head".

He raised the issue in a debate in Parliament's Westminster Hall, saying it was at the "crude end" of the immigration argument.

The Kettering MP said: "I have huge sympathy with those who say they want action against those who want to cover themselves up in public.

"How ridiculous would the House of Commons be if we all wore burkas? How would Mr Speaker (John Bercow) be able to identify which Member to call next?

"It is the religious equivalent of going round with a paper bag over your head with two holes for the eyes.

"It is offensive in my view to want to cut yourself off from face-to-face contact or recognition with other members of the human race.

"I think we should certainly look at ways to tackle that issue."

A poll for a daily newspaper found a third of Britons wanted to see an outright ban on the wearing of burka in public, and two thirds believed wearing it should be illegal in places such as banks and airports.

The UK Independence Party has called for an outright ban.

The subject has sparked intense debate in France and last week French prime minister Francois Fillon asked the country's highest court to help draft a law banning the full Islamic veil.

The Tories moved to distance themselves from Mr Hollobone's comments, saying proposals for a ban risked "stoking fear and misunderstanding".

A Conservative Party spokesman said: "This does not reflect the views of the Conservative party."

[MPH]

They seem quite fashionable, really.... you can wear them anywhere.....

Burka Barbie anyone?