cc_star Posted 10 January 2011 Posted 10 January 2011 Really not in favour of cup replays Rarely does an underdog who has pluckily put in the performance of their lives get a result 2nd time around. I would much sooner have had the tie decided on the day, even if we'd have been unlucky on penalties or something. If extra-time/penalties is good enough for the final (after a debate several years ago) then surely its good enough for every round. Neither us or Man City need another game getting in the way Of course there is stuff like our League Cup win at Hillsborough which opposes how I feel, and Steve Claridge's winner will live long in my memory as will leaping in the air and falling down about 20 steps and spending the next 5mins on the floor celebrating, but on balance I think replays suck and actually devalue the tie
cc_star Posted 10 January 2011 Author Posted 10 January 2011 Are you ever happy? errm yes, in fact in the post is one examp... but you probably never read it ***edit*** In fact, sod you! just take yesterday as a further example and any number of my posts after the match would you show you, although you can ignore them if it furthers your point... but silly me for trying to start a conversation point in a forum for conversation & debate... I forgot the purpose of FoxesTalk is for people with 10k+ of comments just to chat privately to each other
Finnegan Posted 10 January 2011 Posted 10 January 2011 Your post count has fuck all to do with the fact you find something to moan about everything. I didn't even know how many posts you had until you brought it up, I thought it was way more than five hundred. Trust me, it fucking feels like it.
Finnegan Posted 10 January 2011 Posted 10 January 2011 Finners, are you ever happy ? When I've got something to rant about.
Bert Posted 10 January 2011 Posted 10 January 2011 Maybe it's time you grew up cc-star? You Just seem a bit pathetic to me.
Criggers Posted 10 January 2011 Posted 10 January 2011 I sort of agree in the sense that we will struggle at Eastlands and the way the game was going, extra time and penalties could have been one hell of a night. But what about when the underdog is AWAY from home like Arsenal v Leeds. Leeds got a draw and were unlucky not to win and their reward is to go back to Elland Road. If there were not any replays then you wouldn't have that. So we can't have it both ways. I bet if we were drew out the hat away to Man City and got a draw, you would want replays then.
Nick Posted 10 January 2011 Posted 10 January 2011 Really not in favour of cup replays Rarely does an underdog who has pluckily put in the performance of their lives get a result 2nd time around. I would much sooner have had the tie decided on the day, even if we'd have been unlucky on penalties or something. If extra-time/penalties is good enough for the final (after a debate several years ago) then surely its good enough for every round. Neither us or Man City need another game getting in the way Of course there is stuff like our League Cup win at Hillsborough which opposes how I feel, and Steve Claridge's winner will live long in my memory as will leaping in the air and falling down about 20 steps and spending the next 5mins on the floor celebrating, but on balance I think replays suck and actually devalue the tie 'De-value' is a strange phrase to use. Replays add value. They add value in economic terms that gives small clubs the opportunity to take shares of big gates and publicity. Replays are the foundations of the FA Cup associated dream / magic because they force big teams to commit good sides or risk losing or worse, replay that adds games and injury risk to an already packed fixture list. We will go to Man City - and yes we'll maybe get beaten..... but we'll do well in terms of economic growth and allow our club and players to perform on a bigger stage thus raising the Club's profile and cash flow. N
Alexikokopops Posted 10 January 2011 Posted 10 January 2011 I can imagine all the Burton Albion fans cursing into their Bovril when they got that replay at Old Trafford
Guest BlueBrett Posted 10 January 2011 Posted 10 January 2011 I can imagine all the Burton Albion fans cursing into their Bovril when they got that replay at Old Trafford Exactly what I was thinking. An extra bloody fixture What's the fking point ey? We wont be favorites to win so let's just not bother.
muzzy1981 Posted 10 January 2011 Posted 10 January 2011 Replays are brilliant, they give the under-dog a second chance of playing in front of a bigger crowd and stadiums. As widely publicised a complete overhaul of the fixture calender needs carrying out so as to improve our international chances too but getting rid of FA cup replays is not the answer. Anyhow in this case we have earnt a replay against a side which has a busier schedule than us so we have certainly gained some ground in that respect. Depending on how it falls they may be forced to bring in players who haven't played regulary and we can steel it!
Nick Posted 10 January 2011 Posted 10 January 2011 22. PROCEEDS OF MATCHES PRIOR TO THE SEMI-FINALS (a) The net gate receipts due from a match (except replayed matches in consequence of a breach of the Rules) shall be the total ticket sales for the match less VAT, the travelling (and possibly accommodation) expenses of the Visiting Club, the fees and expenses of the Match Officials, and other match expenses allowed under the Competition Rules (which include costs relating to gate attendants, turnstile operators, stewards, weather reports, police charges, floodlighting in accordance with the Competition Rules, contributions to the costs of First Aid Helpers and any costs relating to clearing the ground of snow and water provided the Visiting Club is consulted beforehand on the approximate costs). Any shortfalls in receipts are the responsibility of the home club and are not to be shared. The Professional Game Board shall have the power from time to time to issue instructions as to what shall and shall not be allowed as a match expense. (b) Net gate receipts shall be divided as follows: (i) In matches prior to the Third Round of the Competition Proper (other than replayed matches in the Competition Proper), the net gate receipts of each match shall be divided equally between the competing Clubs. (ii) In replayed matches in the Competition Proper prior to the Third Round, 5% of the net gate receipts shall be remitted to The Association and the balance shall be divided equally between the competing Clubs. (iii) In matches played in the Third, Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Rounds of the Competition Proper, the net gate receipts of each match shall be divided as follows: 45% to each Club competing in the match. 10% to the Pool. (iv) In replayed matches in the Third, Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Rounds of the Competition Proper the net gate receipts of each match shall be divided as follows: 5% to The Association. 42.5% to each Club. 10% to the Pool. © “The Pool” shall be a fund held by The Association which shall be divided at the completion of the Competition between the FA Premier League and the Football League for onward distribution to the Clubs in the FA Premier League and the Football League which participated in the Competition. The 5% payment to The Association for replayed matches in the First, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Rounds of the Competition Proper shall be divided at the completion of the Competition amongst all the Clubs outside the FA Premier League and The Football League playing in the First Round of the Competition Proper. (d) In matches played in the Third, Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Rounds of the Competition Proper involving Clubs outside the FA Premier League or The Football League, the net gate receipts of each match shall be divided as follows: 50% to Clubs outside The FA Premier League or The Football League. 40% to FA Premier League or Football League Clubs. ©10% to the Pool (save where both Clubs are outside the FA Premier League or the Football League). (e) In replayed matches in the Third, Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Rounds of the Competition Proper involving Clubs outside the FA Premier League or The Football League, the net gate receipts of each match shall be divided as follows: 47.5% to Clubs outside The FA Premier League or The Football League. 37.5% to FA Premier League or Football League Clubs. 10% to the Pool (save where both Clubs are outside The FA Premier League or The Football League). 5% to The Association. (f) The net gate receipts shall be approximately divided immediately after the match. A full statement of account for the match shall be prepared by the Club playing at its home ground, on the prescribed Statement of Receipts and Payments Form, and payment shall be made in full to the Visiting Club and The Association within 14 days of the match. The Statement of Receipts and Payments Form must be signed by a Director or Football Secretary of the home Club. A Club failing to comply with this clause may be ordered to pay a fine and any other punishment, including non-admission in the future to the Competition, may be imposed as determined by the Professional Game Board. (g) Any Club failing to comply with these provisions may at the discretion of the Professional Game Board: (i) be ordered to pay daily interest on the money due calculated at 5% per annum over Barclays Bank Base Rate in force for the time being from the due date to the actual date of payment, and/or; (ii) be removed from the Competition for the current and/or future seasons and any other order as is deemed appropriate until such time as the money has been paid. (h) A Club that alleges that it has been financially disadvantaged by another Club failing to meet its financial obligations under these Rules must bring the circumstances to the attention of The Association in writing. (i) When a match is postponed through causes over which neither Club has any control, the expenses shall be paid out of the gate receipts of the match when played. (j) In any match ordered to be replayed in consequence of a breach of the Competition Rules, the Club in default shall not receive any share of the gate receipts of any nature of such replayed match (except the approved travelling costs in accordance with Competition Rule 23) without the consent of the Professional Game Board, and such consent shall only be given under special circumstances. If consent is not given, any such share shall be remitted to The Association. (k) A Club may at its own expense erect temporary stands and take the proceeds in cases where the opposing Club declines to join in the expenses of the erection. A stand shall be treated as a permanent one if used after the match for which it was erected. (l) In cases where the gate receipts are not sufficient to cover the entire expenses of the match, the deficit shall be shared by the two competing Clubs. (m) The Home Club must maintain proper accounting systems and documentation (see Competition Rule 26) for the control and recording of match receipts. A clear audit trail must be available from the documentation to the entries recorded on the Statement of Receipts and Payments Form.
Houdini Logic Posted 10 January 2011 Posted 10 January 2011 If we lost against Man City on penalties the other night - that would devalue the tie
Captain... Posted 10 January 2011 Posted 10 January 2011 'De-value' is a strange phrase to use. Replays add value. They add value in economic terms that gives small clubs the opportunity to take shares of big gates and publicity. Replays are the foundations of the FA Cup associated dream / magic because they force big teams to commit good sides or risk losing or worse, replay that adds games and injury risk to an already packed fixture list. We will go to Man City - and yes we'll maybe get beaten..... but we'll do well in terms of economic growth and allow our club and players to perform on a bigger stage thus raising the Club's profile and cash flow. N ...but do we need the financial bonus? Man City don't. What we really need more than a nice cup run is to win our next 5 league games and this replay will potentially hinder that. I'm sure that both clubs would have been happy to reach a conclusion yesterday and not have to play an extra fixture. Man City because they are still in the Uefa cup and are challenging for the title, us because we probably have a better chance in a penalty shoot out at home than winning over 90 minutes at Eastlands. I think the fans would too. A trip to Manchester is not everyones idea of a fun wednesday evening I'm sure Man City fans are thrilled at forking out an extra £30 to watch us humiliate them again The main problem is the fixture congestion, especially after christmas, we are lucky that none of our games were cancelled (even ones that should have been) but the FA really needs to look into the value of playing 2 cup competitions as well as having a ridiculously congested christmas period when the rest of Europe has a break. I think that if the Qatar World Cup is played in our winter will we be forced to address it. I think either 1 cup competition with replays or 2 without replays otherwise it gets ridiculous, I mean who takes the league cup seriously, apart from when they win it.
OzFox Posted 10 January 2011 Posted 10 January 2011 I can imagine all the Burton Albion fans cursing into their Bovril when they got that replay at Old Trafford They got one against us years ago. Behind closed doors though, so wouldn't have done much for their gate receipts
Alexikokopops Posted 10 January 2011 Posted 10 January 2011 Imagine if there were other teams in the cup other than just Leicester and Man City. This argument would be a completely different kettle of fish if we considered things beyond our two clubs.
Nick Posted 10 January 2011 Posted 10 January 2011 ...but do we need the financial bonus? Man City don't. What we really need more than a nice cup run is to win our next 5 league games and this replay will potentially hinder that. I'm sure that both clubs would have been happy to reach a conclusion yesterday and not have to play an extra fixture. Man City because they are still in the Uefa cup and are challenging for the title, us because we probably have a better chance in a penalty shoot out at home than winning over 90 minutes at Eastlands. I think the fans would too. A trip to Manchester is not everyones idea of a fun wednesday evening I'm sure Man City fans are thrilled at forking out an extra £30 to watch us humiliate them again The main problem is the fixture congestion, especially after christmas, we are lucky that none of our games were cancelled (even ones that should have been) but the FA really needs to look into the value of playing 2 cup competitions as well as having a ridiculously congested christmas period when the rest of Europe has a break. I think that if the Qatar World Cup is played in our winter will we be forced to address it. I think either 1 cup competition with replays or 2 without replays otherwise it gets ridiculous, I mean who takes the league cup seriously, apart from when they win it. Fair point but I don't think it's a bout us or Man City - it's about non league and smaller clubs it's what makes the FA Cup so special - sod World Cups and their shocking political interest bodies, sod the Champions League - The FA Cup is for everybody and it's the best footballing trophy in the world in terms of equality.
OzFox Posted 10 January 2011 Posted 10 January 2011 Slightly off topic, but it's amazing what you find on Youtube Neil Warnock...Burton manager! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X68yC465oHo
Corky Posted 10 January 2011 Posted 10 January 2011 Draw was a fair result, neither side deserved to lose yesterday. A replay doesn't devalue the tie, it gives us another opportunity to test ourselves against a top side.
Trav Le Bleu Posted 10 January 2011 Posted 10 January 2011 On a loser here CC. Replays add value as Nick said and also, as Houdini said, would you wanted to go out on penalties? Muzzy1981 also stated a good point in that the reverse of what's going to happen in the City match can happen and a plucky underdog can hold out away from home to bring a giant to the home ground! Fantastic! You probably don't remember the days when there were NO penalty shoot-outs in the FA cup. I remember a tie, I think it was Arsenal and Sheff Weds in a quarter final, went to a fourth or fifth replay, which they ended up playing at Filbert Street. If anything the FA Cup has been devalued by "lets-get-the-tie-done-quick-as-possible" penalty shootouts after the 1st replay the sweep everything under the carpet. The FA Cup is a shambles at tge moment, especially with them planning to play Premier League fixtures on the same day as the final.
Guest BlueBrett Posted 10 January 2011 Posted 10 January 2011 Slightly off topic, but it's amazing what you find on YoutubeNeil Warnock...Burton manager Keeper beaten six times and hit on the head with a piece of wood in the first game! Not his best afternoon in football then
Captain... Posted 10 January 2011 Posted 10 January 2011 Fair point but I don't think it's a bout us or Man City - it's about non league and smaller clubs it's what makes the FA Cup so special - sod World Cups and their shocking political interest bodies, sod the Champions League - The FA Cup is for everybody and it's the best footballing trophy in the world in terms of equality. As a non league team playing a premier league side, if you have slogged your guts out for 90 minutes at home in front of your long suffering fans and held them off, would you not prefer the penalty shout out there and then rather than a reply where you will lose the surprise value, home advantage and the premier league side maybe won't rest as many of their bigger players. I would rather beat Man U at home on penalties than have a day out at Old Trafford and get stuffed if I was a non league team/fan. I don't like the continental 2 leg cup system because upsets almost never happen, but if we are going to persist with 2 cup competitions I think we should scrap replays.
Dom_Harborough Fox Posted 10 January 2011 Posted 10 January 2011 The added game can be a bad thing in terms of disrupting a run of form in the league or something along those lines. In our position it might work against us as its an extra game on top of the existing fixtures and (call me a pesimist but...) theres a fair chance we might get taken apart in manchester and that could damage the lads' confidence & disrupt our decnt run of form in the league. BUT replays are part of the magic of the cup for me. They help make the competition unique. There are no replays in the league cup now after all. Plus, on a purely selfish note, I'm glad its given me a chance to do Man City away this year. I hope replays remain a part of the cup for years to come
hackneyfox Posted 10 January 2011 Posted 10 January 2011 The whole point for most small clubs is that they get the chance of earning big bucks from the away matches against the giants. cc can't have a moan about Sven after that performance so he's found something else.
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