Wycombe Fox Posted 23 January 2011 Posted 23 January 2011 I went to my local for a couple of beers and games of pool with my Millwall-supporting mate (who also happens to be the landlord). I texted him to let him know that I'm not the kind of person to gloat and that I wouldn't mention the game (yeah right!) When I got there he was playing pool. I walked in and just said hello. I waited for him to play a shot with his back to me and then I took off my coat. By the time he turned round, I was stood behind him with my City shirt and hat on and waving a City scarf above my head. I can't repeat what he said!! Sweeeeet!!!
Brown Fox Posted 23 January 2011 Posted 23 January 2011 ...but Sven doesn't seem to want to do that, he doesn't seem to be interested in building a squad, he wants to find his best 11 and the best formation and stick with it, to hell with the rest of the squad, playing conditions (home or away, blizzard at Ipswich) or opposition strengths. His style seems to be decide on the best players (sometimes regardless of form) and then play the players into the ground until they are injured then think shit who can I play there now. He was playing Mee with a view to replacing Hobbs like he did with Davies, Vitor and Bamba. If Mee had played a blinder Hobbs wouldn't have got a look in for the rest of the season I'm pretty sure about that. Further proof of that is we hardly ever make tactical substitutions before the 75th minute, except in unusual circumstances, such as the opposition being reduced to 10 men. If we are losing we make decisions too late to affect the game if we are winning then a few first teamers get 10 minutes rest but the players brought on have no time to make any impact. The likes of Waghorn and Moussa and Mee should be having regular 30 minute run outs whether we need fresh legs in the middle at the back or up top, as it is they are neither satisfied with the amount of game time they are getting, nor contributing anything to the team. Granted Sven is a well seasoned professional experienced manager and maybe his style will reap huge rewards for the club, but as it stands an injury to our first 11 and we will be very exposed, with very little cover across the board, especially if Waghorn does go. Of course all of this become irrelevant if we sign 3 or few players next week, but as it stands our first eleven is starting to gel while our back up players leave/want to leave/stagnate on the bench. I'm sorry mate but most of what you have written there is completely wrong. Why you think that Sven building a squad and finding his best 11 is a bad thing I have no idea. If you want to see squad players then lets get Neilson and Moreno back in there then hey? The whole point of a successful team is to find the balance and stick with it and Sven seems to be doing that well. Yakubu is scoring, Vassell is scoring and now Dyer has begun to score so according to you we should just drop one of them just so members of the squad that aren't good enough can come on. You say his style of play is decided on the best player regardless of form but you completely contradict yourself. Hobbs' reputation is being a great talent and a quality CB but of late he's been extremely average and so Sven dropped him because of his form. Waghorn has had a good few chances when Sven first came and he wasn't very good and so do you want Sven to just sit there and do nothing or would you like to see players like Yakubu playing for us? You seem to think you know more than Sven and act as if he's done a bad job, when in fact he's done the best he can because since he's come in we have picked up the most points since October 3rd than anyone in the league.
Captain... Posted 23 January 2011 Posted 23 January 2011 As it stands, every word you've written is bullshit. You talk as if there is some conspiracy against contracted Leicester players. Hobbs has been playing shit, when Fryatt played this season he was shit, Waghorn has looked shit, Moussa is just plain shit. As for the tactics.........actually **** this, you obviously know more than anyone else. It's just an opinion don't take it so seriously. I'm in no way saying it's a conspiracy I don't know where you get that from, I didn't mention loan players vs contracted players at all. I'm just saying that Sven's style involves picking his best 11 and sticking to it, rather than using the squad to it's potential. I didn't say it wouldn't be successful, but a couple of injuries and we look very exposed. If we lose one of Abe, Wellens or King we have no back up as Moussa isn't up to it and Oakley is shit. Moussa (or Oakley) should be playing for 30 minutes to prepare for the worst, likewise Mee should have been brought on a few times before being thrown in at the deep end and being caught very cold and making some big errors early on. The same will happen if Naughton/Weale/Berner/Bamba get injured. We have nobody outside the first 11 who is match fit and ready to play and is comfortable playing in the formation we play.
Kitchandro Posted 23 January 2011 Posted 23 January 2011 As it stands, every word you've written is bullshit. You talk as if there is some conspiracy against contracted Leicester players. Hobbs has been playing shit, when Fryatt played this season he was shit, Waghorn has looked shit, Moussa is just plain shit. As for the tactics.........actually **** this, you obviously know more than anyone else. Hobbs has not been playing shit in general, he's had a few bad games, as have the people he has favoured. Yes Moussa's shit, Howard's shit, but they've been favoured over Waghorn. Hobs hasn't been any more shit than Vitor or Davies but they were favoured
Simmo86 Posted 23 January 2011 Posted 23 January 2011 15']Hobbs has not been playing shit in general, he's had a few bad games, as have the people he has favoured. [/b] Yes Moussa's shit, Howard's shit, but they've been favoured over Waghorn. Hobs hasn't been any more shit than Vitor or Davies but they were favoured You could count the amount of good games Hobbs has had on one hand this season! He was a rock week in week out last season, been nowhere near that this year.
Captain... Posted 23 January 2011 Posted 23 January 2011 I'm sorry mate but most of what you have written there is completely wrong. Why you think that Sven building a squad and finding his best 11 is a bad thing I have no idea. If you want to see squad players then lets get Neilson and Moreno back in there then hey? The whole point of a successful team is to find the balance and stick with it and Sven seems to be doing that well. Yakubu is scoring, Vassell is scoring and now Dyer has begun to score so according to you we should just drop one of them just so members of the squad that aren't good enough can come on. You say his style of play is decided on the best player regardless of form but you completely contradict yourself. Hobbs' reputation is being a great talent and a quality CB but of late he's been extremely average and so Sven dropped him because of his form. Waghorn has had a good few chances when Sven first came and he wasn't very good and so do you want Sven to just sit there and do nothing or would you like to see players like Yakubu playing for us? You seem to think you know more than Sven and act as if he's done a bad job, when in fact he's done the best he can because since he's come in we have picked up the most points since October 3rd than anyone in the league. Obviously finding your best 11 is important (although it took Sven a hell of a long time to do it) and Sven is doing a great job, but I don't seem him building a squad, that is my problem, if you see my reply to Bettsj, we have nobody in the squad capable of coming in when people get injured or are sold without seriously lowering the quality. We have a very good first 11 and originally I was defending the decision to play Mee instead of Hobbs in my first post, and bemoaning the fact that Waghorn has not received a chance to prove his worth, when he was playing at the start of Sven's reign the team was still suffering from the PS hangover, despite that the only game we lost in the period was the one when he didn't start and whilst not looking his best he wasn't playing badly. Since November the 10th he has not had a start for us and has not played more than 20 minutes of a match. I don't think this is sufficient to judge a player, like Mee he deserves one start to prove something, with Gallagher injured and Vassell coming back from injury I was hoping it would have been against Millwall, now it looks like he will be off without having a fair crack of the whip. In my second post it was an observation on Sven's style and the possible shortcomings. If we don't lose anyone in the transfer window and we have no injuries for the rest of the season then great, but we seem unable to change a game with substitutions and we are not giving enough game time to players who are on the fringes of the first team and may be called upon at some point in the season. Players like Moussa and Waghorn are not developing at Leicester and it is a great shame. Even looking at someone like Neilson. Naughton is twice the player Neilson is, but we may need him one day. I also think that Naughton, who is still a young lad and he always puts in a good shift getting up and down the flanks may need a rest every now and again. 20 minutes in a game we are controlling or he may suffer from burn out or get injured.
Kitchandro Posted 23 January 2011 Posted 23 January 2011 You could count the amount of good games Hobbs has had on one hand this season! He was a rock week in week out last season, been nowhere near that this year. I'm just repeating myself over and over again here Hobbs has been inconsistent but definitely not shit in general. The reason he's inconsistent is probably because he's had several different defensive partners (Vitor, Moreno, Davies, Bamba, Morrison), as well as 2 different left backs, and has been in and out of the side. The defence is a unit, and hasn't been performing all season. The players Sven has brought in apparently to replace Hobbs have done no better. Davies had a good start, but then began to look like a non-league player, Vitor can't mark and tends to lose concentration, and the less said about Mee's debut the better. As I keep saying, it is essential that your defence is settled, it hasn't stopped changing all season. But I'm sure you're of the view that Hobbs has turned from hero to zero overnight for no reason.
B52 Posted 23 January 2011 Posted 23 January 2011 I'm just saying that Sven's style involves picking his best 11 and sticking to it, rather than using the squad to it's potential. How do you know that? I have seen a manager willing to let new players the chance to prove their worth. The "old" players is already at the club and will have their chance later. And if players like Fryatt is sold for over 1 mill. Sven can buy 4-5 Bambas. Sven knows how much good players there are outside the Championship bubble, cheaper.......
Captain... Posted 23 January 2011 Posted 23 January 2011 You could count the amount of good games Hobbs has had on one hand this season! He was a rock week in week out last season, been nowhere near that this year. Hobbs has not been at his best this season, but he has not been in a settled defence, and has played Left CB more often than not over his preferred RCB role, admittedly as someone who has played CB it never really bothered me which side, but then I was shit so it doesn't count. Do you not think Sven should be looking to get Hobbs back to being the best defender in the league like last year, rather than dropping him for Mee (again I think it is right to give Mee game time, but I just get the feeling that Sven is always looking for an excuse to drop Hobbs and it isn't going to be doing the boy's confidence any good)? To bring in a defender as good as Hobbs was last year would probably cost 2-3 million, surely it would be better to work with Hobbs and look to build a team aound the likes of him and King and even Waghorn than just cast them aside for someone else. Having Bamba come in and take the RCB spot and Hobbs switching to the left again seems to demonstrate Svens opinion of Hobbs.
Kitchandro Posted 23 January 2011 Posted 23 January 2011 Hobbs has not been at his best this season, but he has not been in a settled defence, and has played Left CB more often than not over his preferred RCB role, admittedly as someone who has played CB it never really bothered me which side, but then I was shit so it doesn't count. Do you not think Sven should be looking to get Hobbs back to being the best defender in the league like last year, rather than dropping him for Mee (again I think it is right to give Mee game time, but I just get the feeling that Sven is always looking for an excuse to drop Hobbs and it isn't going to be doing the boy's confidence any good)? To bring in a defender as good as Hobbs was last year would probably cost 2-3 million, surely it would be better to work with Hobbs and look to build a team aound the likes of him and King and even Waghorn than just cast them aside for someone else. Having Bamba come in and take the RCB spot and Hobbs switching to the left again seems to demonstrate Svens opinion of Hobbs. Exactly All I ask is that Sven gives Bamba and Hobbs a run of games together to develop an understanding. They are both obviously talented players so why not give it a chance instead of, as you say, destroying Hobbs' confidence by continually dropping him? I mean after all, this is the same Hobbs we were talking about as a future England international last season
Corky Posted 23 January 2011 Posted 23 January 2011 Nothing has appeared to me that Sven doesn't like Hobbs. He's played a fair few games since Sven arrived but had a poor game on Tuesday so the manager wanted to give Mee a go. Hobbs could well be back in for Sheffield United.
Captain... Posted 23 January 2011 Posted 23 January 2011 How do you know that? I have seen a manager willing to let new players the chance to prove their worth. The "old" players is already at the club and will have their chance later. And if players like Fryatt is sold for over 1 mill. Sven can buy 4-5 Bambas. Sven knows how much good players there are outside the Championship bubble, cheaper....... Sorry I should have put seems to involve, based on my observations on what has happened since his arrival. His focus does seem to be very much in the short term and the best way to win the next match (not a bad thing) but there seems to be no long term planning with loanees being preferred over youth. I think it was criminal that Davies was allowed to continue to play when it became obvious that he was not putting much effort in towards the end of his loan period. Fryatt is another example, like Hobbs he was very good last season, this season not so, but he was not given a chance, and instead of having the 3-4 million pound striker we had last season he went for a fraction of the price.
MC Prussian Posted 23 January 2011 Posted 23 January 2011 Berner's "foul" on Hackett is pure comedy gold - it gets better every time I watch the highlights: Hackett looking for easily impressed and slightly incompetent referees, his preferred prey: He spreads his wings and makes a move: He works his magic: He goes for top marks, great composure there: Topping it off with a great finishing move: Don't forget the excellent landing: Mee's "foul" falls into the same category. Who was involved in that incident? Right, Chris "King of Intentional Clumsiness" Hackett: I present to you the football's equivalent of Andy Coulson:
B52 Posted 23 January 2011 Posted 23 January 2011 Sorry I should have put seems to involve, based on my observations on what has happened since his arrival. His focus does seem to be very much in the short term and the best way to win the next match (not a bad thing) but there seems to be no long term planning with loanees being preferred over youth. I think it was criminal that Davies was allowed to continue to play when it became obvious that he was not putting much effort in towards the end of his loan period. Fryatt is another example, like Hobbs he was very good last season, this season not so, but he was not given a chance, and instead of having the 3-4 million pound striker we had last season he went for a fraction of the price. Sven focus is long term. You can see it when he lets loanies play before already contracted players. He wants more players and the only way to get them is to let them play. Otherwise they wouldn't come. Why would they leave the bench in PL to drop a division to be on the bench, get real. Next season you will see a change because by then Sven's prepared and have options. He wants to gain promotion, not failing because he has the wrong players on the field. To do so he needs a wider squad. The players he wants has to be suitable for PL.
Kitchandro Posted 23 January 2011 Posted 23 January 2011 Sven focus is long term. You can see it when he lets loanies play before already contracted players. He wants more players and the only way to get them is to let them play. Otherwise they wouldn't come. Why would they leave the bench in PL to drop a division to be on the bench, get real. Next season you will see a change because by then Sven's prepared and have options. He wants to gain promotion, not failing because he has the wrong players on the field. To do so he needs a wider squad. The players he wants has to be suitable for PL. But I think some of the players we've got are good enough. But they can't be fobbed off or they'll never reach their potential. I'm not saying play them if they are continuously shit, but don't shun them either.
B52 Posted 23 January 2011 Posted 23 January 2011 But I think some of the players we've got are good enough. But they can't be fobbed off or they'll never reach their potential. I'm not saying play them if they are continuously shit, but don't shun them either. I respect both your and CS view but I believe Sven doesn't have any choice at all if he don't want to pay ridiculous money. He came in late and the team was relegation form. He had to turn it around and quick. He has played Moussa, Fryatt, Hobbs, Waghorn(a lot). We have a great 11 but not much besides.
cc_star Posted 23 January 2011 Posted 23 January 2011 You could count the amount of good games Hobbs has had on one hand this season! He was a rock week in week out last season, been nowhere near that this year. Because he was playing for a tactically inept manager for the first quarter of the season & since then he's been in & out the team every time Vitor is fit or Sven wants to bring a player on for another club, he's also played with about 4 others centre halfs... Teams which don't concede goals (like us last season) have a settled defence & don't looks as fragile as we do, all have one thing in common - they don't drop players all the time. I wouldn't mind him not playing if the person keeping him out the team was obviously better than him like Yakubu is Waghorn, but whilst Vitor may be a tad more comfortable bringing the ball out of defence than Hobbs but he has deficiencies in other areas, so isn't obviously better - he also isn't our player so we don't get to gain from him in the long term, and Mee isn't ready for first team football, why we're bringing him on for ManCity at the expense of our own lad I'll never know.
marbelladave Posted 24 January 2011 Posted 24 January 2011 Been busy today, but this has become an interesting thread, First of all, our front 6 have been pretty consistent of late, so this is primarily about our defence. Last season Pearson constructed a very solid defence out of some decent players, they were given a simple job to do and were amply supported by a deep lying midfield. Effective though this was in some ways it was nothing like what was needed for a team seriously looking for promotion. To put it bluntly the hoof was the order of the day and we had a midfield 4 or 5 primarily concerned with defence. This season Sousa and now Eriksson have worked hard at making us into a proper passing side, and we are undoubtably getting there. However this has had a downside for our defence, the big hoof forward has been replaced by an attempt to play the ball out of defence, our fullbacks are required to provide an attacking option so our center backs have to do much more than was ever asked of them last season. Several of our defenders were not good enough to make the step up and Hobbs and Berner are still adapting. Hobbs in particular is struggling with the new style, the high line and passing game he is being asked to buy into is stretching him, just as importantly he is having to play on the left, another big adjustment he is having trouble making. Throw in the huge number of different combinations we have played in defence this season and it is hardly surprising we have issues, personally I think we will try and get in another center back, so that Hobbs and Mee can offer backup and alternatives rather than playing every week.
reynard Posted 24 January 2011 Posted 24 January 2011 Personally I think there is a bigger long term picture going on at the moment. Sven has his eyes firmly on the premiership. That is what the he wants, the owners want and the vast majority of the fans want. The question he is asking himself is which of these players is good enough to play there in the style of play i want and I think necessary to be a stable side in that division? it is true we are not currently building a side in the truest sense of the word but then agian who is? Take QPR top of the table and have brought in Wayne Routledge, Ishmail Miller and Chimbonda, the first two on loan and Routledge went straight into their side yesterday and scored, presumably replacing a "local" crowd favourite yet I don't expect many of their fans will be complaining. The facts this season are that for whatever reasons the core of players we had last year have not performed to the same standards as last year. Berner has looked slower and off the pace, he was poor on Saturday, though he has had2/3 good games of late. Hobbs has had what I would call a pretty dismal season. He has made several mistakes which have led directly to goal and dropped points. He offers, despite his height, no threat in the opposition penalty area and is not especially comfortable coming forward with the ball at his feet and his passing isn't too great either. Weale has lacked fitness and confidence. Wellens at the start of the season looked unfit and disinterested but is now looking a vital player for us. He and to a certain extent Dyer are perfect examples of what Sven is trying to do. Both have had their critics earlier in the season but the overall improvement in the technical ability of the squad ( Naughton big improvement, Cunningham technically very good, Vassell technically very good and obviously Yakuba whose link play on Saturday was sublime) has allowed players like Dyer, wellens and to a certain extent Gallagher to grow in confidence, self belief and are starting to produce performance of excellent quality. I'd rather watch the type of football we are playing now than the often drab stuff played under pearson. I also think that should we ever get back to the premiership it is excactly this type of style with technically gifted players playing it that we will need to survive there. Now Mee had a poor debut but technically he looked like he might have some qualities that Hobbs doesn't currently have. It is up to players like Hoobs and Waghorn to knuckle down and try to improve. Maybe they can maybe they can't only time will tell, but listen to Sven and he always talks about how good technically a player is and I'm convinced that is what he is looking to improve and to build from there.
Raj Posted 24 January 2011 Posted 24 January 2011 Had the pleasure of walking down from Morrissonw ith the delightful Millwall fans and they really lived up to their reputation. Screamaing and shouting at a bus full of City kids who weree just chanting"lester,Lester" Reply from Wall was "your mums a slag and she takes it up the arse"..."come out ere and we'll fooking have you'...Ermm they were kids in city kits with their dads! Think they liked me as they kept giving me the 'eye'...mind you being abit tanned and walking down on my own i'd have though atleast a few of theses hardcore tough Green St wanna beee would have made the effort to breach the police corden and atleast try and shake my dirty brown hand!!! Anyway...Mee must have the balls the size of a fcuking apes!! The kid had a mare start but kept his head down and just done his thing(even tho we were shitting it everythime he had the ball!) Hope he can gain some confidence from finishing the game and forgettin g the 1st few mins! Wellens is a master. he should be made Captain and let King do his thing,as i dont thing King is Captain material yet. Wellens is absolutely awesome. Yuki too is getting better and better...just needs to score! Hope all the Millwall fans appreciate the fact that all the goals were scored by our 'darker' players!!!
B52 Posted 24 January 2011 Posted 24 January 2011 Personally I think there is a bigger long term picture going on at the moment. Sven has his eyes firmly on the premiership. That is what the he wants, the owners want and the vast majority of the fans want. The question he is asking himself is which of these players is good enough to play there in the style of play i want and I think necessary to be a stable side in that division? it is true we are not currently building a side in the truest sense of the word but then agian who is? Take QPR top of the table and have brought in Wayne Routledge, Ishmail Miller and Chimbonda, the first two on loan and Routledge went straight into their side yesterday and scored, presumably replacing a "local" crowd favourite yet I don't expect many of their fans will be complaining. The facts this season are that for whatever reasons the core of players we had last year have not performed to the same standards as last year. Berner has looked slower and off the pace, he was poor on Saturday, though he has had2/3 good games of late. Hobbs has had what I would call a pretty dismal season. He has made several mistakes which have led directly to goal and dropped points. He offers, despite his height, no threat in the opposition penalty area and is not especially comfortable coming forward with the ball at his feet and his passing isn't too great either. Weale has lacked fitness and confidence. Wellens at the start of the season looked unfit and disinterested but is now looking a vital player for us. He and to a certain extent Dyer are perfect examples of what Sven is trying to do. Both have had their critics earlier in the season but the overall improvement in the technical ability of the squad ( Naughton big improvement, Cunningham technically very good, Vassell technically very good and obviously Yakuba whose link play on Saturday was sublime) has allowed players like Dyer, wellens and to a certain extent Gallagher to grow in confidence, self belief and are starting to produce performance of excellent quality. I'd rather watch the type of football we are playing now than the often drab stuff played under pearson. I also think that should we ever get back to the premiership it is excactly this type of style with technically gifted players playing it that we will need to survive there. Now Mee had a poor debut but technically he looked like he might have some qualities that Hobbs doesn't currently have. It is up to players like Hoobs and Waghorn to knuckle down and try to improve. Maybe they can maybe they can't only time will tell, but listen to Sven and he always talks about how good technically a player is and I'm convinced that is what he is looking to improve and to build from there. Great post. Thanks for elaborating my pathetic posting.
Kitchandro Posted 24 January 2011 Posted 24 January 2011 I really hope Millwall folds as a club and those scummy fans have no one to support. Their club doesn't deserve to exist
Leicester Bean Posted 24 January 2011 Posted 24 January 2011 Ben Mee reminds me of Ben Thatcher in every possible way... I thought the exact same thing!
The Doctor Posted 24 January 2011 Posted 24 January 2011 I really hope Millwall folds as a club and those scummy fans have no one to support. Their club doesn't deserve to exist why? Some of their fans may be a bit "scummy" but that isn't a reason for their club to not exist.
Kitchandro Posted 24 January 2011 Posted 24 January 2011 why? Some of their fans may be a bit "scummy" but that isn't a reason for their club to not exist. No it's not 'some' it's too many, and it's too often. I've just been on 606 and their fans won't even accept they did anything wrong on Saturday.
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