Jack Hobbs signs for...?

[davieG]

Yuk! I am sorry but this is disgraceful, Jack has been one of most consistent players for the last few years! he has worked his socks off and helped us get back from league 1, then into the play offs last year. The bloke has been a rock at the back and has done not a lot wrong! Then to repay the poor bloke we chuck him out of the team and send him out on loan!

Its like saying "yer cheers for all you done mate, but bugger off now!"

What is the point in bringing in Chelsea's and Man City's so called young talent, when we have our own talent which we OWN which we could progress this season and prepare for the premiership next (if we get promoted). If Bruma does well he will just bugger off back to Chelsea and Mee to man city at the end of the season, and we will have to find someone else. Where as if Hobbs does well he could quite easily become a Premiership player and ours for years to come.

I am truly very angry at the way Sven is pushing out last years team, which was evidently good enough to get to where we want to be as they did it last season! We are trying to buy success rather than coach it, and to be quite frank it really stinks! This is not football, its cheating, and completely unfair on the squad from last season. I don't want other clubs rejects, when we have our own talent to bring forward! Its disgraceful.

ARGH i am very quickly falling out of love with this club. I feel sorry for Fryatt, Berner, Hobbs, Waghorn, Morrison et al, as they did nothing wrong but have been shifted out for Svens chosen men.

I will follow City, but i can't honestly say that i am still in love with the club, and this makes me honestly sad, as its something that has been very close to my heart for all my life.

I agree with the basic sentiments, I'm not even that keen on the loan system at all for a number of reasons but that's another debate. It's simple really if folks want to be in the Premier League this is the price you have to pay.

Sven is trying to introduce a vastly different approach and culture of football which will be needed to make any kind of impact the PL and many of those players you lament will not be suitable even if they did get us to the play-offs last year and I've no doubt if we had done Pearson would have been making just as many changes.

The loanees he's getting in have been developed to play the style of football he's aiming for so provide an instant solution.

Sven also has the tough objective, and this is what he's paid for to get LCFC in the PL this season so he hasn't got the time to develop those that might make it.

If you want to moan at anyone you should direct them to Top because it's him who is impatient to get promoted and therefore is the catalyst for all the comings and goings which you so dislike.

[Kent]

Academy and reserve games are more for developing players, personally I'd rather see players who are already playing at a high enough standard. You could say the young loanees we have are developing which is true but if they're already proficient at championship level then great.

We can't afford to carry developing/under performing players in the first team if we want Premier League football.

[gibwarrior1988]

Academy and reserve games are more for developing players, personally I'd rather see players who are already playing at a high enough standard. You could say the young loanees we have are developing which is true but if they're already proficient at championship level then great.

We can't afford to carry developing/under performing players in the first team if we want Premier League football.

How the hell is Hobbs an academy or reserve team player. For christ's sake have you been to any of the matches the last 2 seasons?

[Foxhateram]

Sack Sven for making us a better side!

Lovely sarcasm there, this however was quite obviously not what i was suggesting. If you read my post you will see that the problem i have is that we are loaning other teams "talent" when we have our own talent already. I cannot understand why Mee, and Bruma get in ahead of Hobbs. Hobbs has experience in this league and has not put a foot wrong since being here, he was also young player of the season and overall player of the season last year.

I just don't understand why Sven feels the need for a complete overhaul of the side, when we quite clearly have our own talent that we could be bringing on, just seems silly to replace talent with loans, which even if they were to sign would cost us money, when we have our talented young players that have done well for us already, which would cost us nothing.

Van aanholt > Berner fair enough. Berner is getting on a bit and we have no young LB to replace him. So fair do's

Naughton > Morrison was a bit harsh, Morrison did well at right back but admitted Naughton has done very well since being here.

Then it gets messy:

Mee/Bruma > Hobbs ?. Mee as far as i have seen is no better than Hobbs and i think this replacement is harsh tbh. Bruma has played in the champ before and been steady, nothing special though.

Not a loan but Vassell > Waghorn. Waghorn is young, hungry, quick and strong and has scored as many as Vassell in less than half the amount of games. Vassell is aging, losing his pace, getting tired quickly and has scored 3 in 3 months, but is still chosen every match, says it all really.

similarly Vassell > Fryatt at the time. Fryatt has scored nearly every game at Hull, better form than Yak(not by much admitted), Vassell and Waghorn.

Fyatt, Waghorn, Morrison, Hobbs are all young talents that in my opinion will go on to good things at other clubs, now we are/have rejected them, and yet again we will have lost some bloody good talent and not even for a decent price, ala Gradel.

In response to DavieG, I did not mean to come across as moaning, merely just stating my opinion. I see your point, but are Mee and Bruma honestly that much better than Hobbs, Hobbs is part of the England set up so he is obviously rated. I am fine with replcements that obviously enhance the team i.e. Van aaholt > berner or Naughton > Morrison, but are the likes of Mee. Bruma, Vassell really that much better than what we have already?

[gibwarrior1988]

Lovely sarcasm there, this however was quite obviously not what i was suggesting. If you read my post you will see that the problem i have is that we are loaning other teams "talent" when we have our own talent already. I cannot understand why Mee, and Bruma get in ahead of Hobbs. Hobbs has experience in this league and has not put a foot wrong since being here, he was also young player of the season and overall player of the season last year.

I just don't understand why Sven feels the need for a complete overhaul of the side, when we quite clearly have our own talent that we could be bringing on, just seems silly to replace talent with loans, which even if they were to sign would cost us money, when we have our talented young players that have done well for us already, which would cost us nothing.

Van aanholt > Berner fair enough. Berner is getting on a bit and we have no young LB to replace him. So fair do's

Naughton > Morrison was a bit harsh, Morrison did well at right back but admitted Naughton has done very well since being here.

Then it gets messy:

Mee/Bruma > Hobbs ?. Mee as far as i have seen is no better than Hobbs and i think this replacement is harsh tbh. Bruma has played in the champ before and been steady, nothing special though.

Not a loan but Vassell > Waghorn. Waghorn is young, hungry, quick and strong and has scored as many as Vassell in less than half the amount of games. Vassell is aging, losing his pace, getting tired quickly and has scored 3 in 3 months, but is still chosen every match, says it all really.

similarly Vassell > Fryatt at the time. Fryatt has scored nearly every game at Hull, better form than Yak(not by much admitted), Vassell and Waghorn.

Fyatt, Waghorn, Morrison, Hobbs are all young talents that in my opinion will go on to good things at other clubs, now we are/have rejected them, and yet again we will have lost some bloody good talent and not even for a decent price, ala Gradel.

[Stevosevic]

Lovely sarcasm there, this however was quite obviously not what i was suggesting. If you read my post you will see that the problem i have is that we are loaning other teams "talent" when we have our own talent already. I cannot understand why Mee, and Bruma get in ahead of Hobbs. Hobbs has experience in this league and has not put a foot wrong since being here, he was also young player of the season and overall player of the season last year.

I just don't understand why Sven feels the need for a complete overhaul of the side, when we quite clearly have our own talent that we could be bringing on, just seems silly to replace talent with loans, which even if they were to sign would cost us money, when we have our talented young players that have done well for us already, which would cost us nothing.

Van aanholt > Berner fair enough. Berner is getting on a bit and we have no young LB to replace him. So fair do's

Naughton > Morrison was a bit harsh, Morrison did well at right back but admitted Naughton has done very well since being here.

Then it gets messy:

Mee/Bruma > Hobbs ?. Mee as far as i have seen is no better than Hobbs and i think this replacement is harsh tbh. Bruma has played in the champ before and been steady, nothing special though.

Not a loan but Vassell > Waghorn. Waghorn is young, hungry, quick and strong and has scored as many as Vassell in less than half the amount of games. Vassell is aging, losing his pace, getting tired quickly and has scored 3 in 3 months, but is still chosen every match, says it all really.

similarly Vassell > Fryatt at the time. Fryatt has scored nearly every game at Hull, better form than Yak(not by much admitted), Vassell and Waghorn.

Fyatt, Waghorn, Morrison, Hobbs are all young talents that in my opinion will go on to good things at other clubs, now we are/have rejected them, and yet again we will have lost some bloody good talent and not even for a decent price, ala Gradel.

Like i said in my previous post, it hasn't been a massive overhaul and most changes that have been made have been needed.

Bruma has been capped for Holland, world cup finalists, at the age of 19, probably better than Hobbs don't you think? And he hasn't played in the championship before so i'm not sure where you saw him. And Mee, playing for the under 21's and Hobbs hasn't been given a sniff despite playing for us the past 2 years, should tell you that his play is limited.

Vassell deserves more credit than he has been given, Waghorn is in competition with Yakubu not Vassell, Waghorn is useless on the wing.

And how many times have you seen Fryatt play well in a 4-5-1? And how poor was he when he played for us under Sven? If he doesn't want to do it for us there is no point him being here.

[The Doctor]

No, more than happy - its just seems that the fact Sven has signed them means more than their on the pitch performance to most people & to Sven himself.

What I mean is you can't argue with the results or anything, its just a shame that some people have a bad game and people are baying for their blood, but Yakubu or Vassell's form dips and the hypocrites don't say a word

the yak has been here 4 games, scored 2 and created a couple as well. How can you possibly say his form has dipped?

Due to the manager NOT the players!

You can't be certain of that. Sousa did cause a lot of damage but how can you be sure the squad we had at the start of the season was good enough, it's quite possible that the squad was mid-table championship at best and the momentum from L1 promotion carried us into the P/O's last season

[Guest Basildon Fox]

Lovely sarcasm there, this however was quite obviously not what i was suggesting. If you read my post you will see that the problem i have is that we are loaning other teams "talent" when we have our own talent already. I cannot understand why Mee, and Bruma get in ahead of Hobbs. Hobbs has experience in this league and has not put a foot wrong since being here, he was also young player of the season and overall player of the season last year.

I just don't understand why Sven feels the need for a complete overhaul of the side, when we quite clearly have our own talent that we could be bringing on, just seems silly to replace talent with loans, which even if they were to sign would cost us money, when we have our talented young players that have done well for us already, which would cost us nothing.

Van aanholt > Berner fair enough. Berner is getting on a bit and we have no young LB to replace him. So fair do's

Naughton > Morrison was a bit harsh, Morrison did well at right back but admitted Naughton has done very well since being here.

Then it gets messy:

Mee/Bruma > Hobbs ?. Mee as far as i have seen is no better than Hobbs and i think this replacement is harsh tbh. Bruma has played in the champ before and been steady, nothing special though.

Not a loan but Vassell > Waghorn. Waghorn is young, hungry, quick and strong and has scored as many as Vassell in less than half the amount of games. Vassell is aging, losing his pace, getting tired quickly and has scored 3 in 3 months, but is still chosen every match, says it all really.

similarly Vassell > Fryatt at the time. Fryatt has scored nearly every game at Hull, better form than Yak(not by much admitted), Vassell and Waghorn.

Fyatt, Waghorn, Morrison, Hobbs are all young talents that in my opinion will go on to good things at other clubs, now we are/have rejected them, and yet again we will have lost some bloody good talent and not even for a decent price, ala Gradel.

I am sure he would have been a Sven type player. At the end of the day they fitted into a system developed by NP and it worked to a certain degree. Sven has different ideas on how he wants his teams to play. Different players make different styles as they all have strengths and weaknesses.

[Kitchandro]

Not given a chance? Hobbs has played plenty of games under Sven and has rarely looked up to it.

The best players since Sven arrived? Wellens, Gallagher and of course King, three players who have thrived under him. Dyer also.

The positions that Sven has strengthened:

RB: Naughton or Neilson? No question

CB: we only had Morrison and Hobbs, i don't think anyone can question Bamba so far.

LB: Cunningham was better than Bruno, so is Van Arnholt.

Midfield: the same midfield.

Strikers: Yakubu or Fatty Fraytt? not a question really. And fryatt can't play in a 4-5-1

Bamba is great but he wasn't replacing Hobbs, he was replacing Morrison. For me, Bamba is the kind of centre back that would compliment hobbs like Brown did last season which is why I would have liked to see there partnership given a few more games.

Van Aanholt is said to be the next Ashley Cole but he's not been better than Bruno so far that's for sure. Cunningham was a real assett going forward but Bruno is a much better defender.

I think the foxhateram is overreacting saying we are 'cheating' and it is a 'disgrace' but I kind of half feel his annoyance that these good players that are ours are being fobbed off.

[Ricey]

Fyatt, Waghorn, Morrison, Hobbs are all young talents that in my opinion will go on to good things at other clubs, now we are/have rejected them, and yet again we will have lost some bloody good talent and not even for a decent price, ala Gradel.

Could not agree more.

It's not a sensible tactic to get rid of good young players with plenty of time to develop, in favour of short term loans of players who we'll no doubt have little chance of signing permanently.

If Sven doesn't want Waggy and Hobbs now, I doubt he ever will.

What happens if we don't go up? Mee, Van Aanholt, Naughton, Bruma and Yakubu will go back and players like King and Wellens might ask for transfers.

We are playing the short game, granted we are doing well at the minute but I fear for the future.

[Stevosevic]

Bamba is great but he wasn't replacing Hobbs, he was replacing Morrison. For me, Bamba is the kind of centre back that would compliment hobbs like Brown did last season which is why I would have liked to see there partnership given a few more games.

Van Aanholt is said to be the next Ashley Cole but he's not been better than Bruno so far that's for sure. Cunningham was a real assett going forward but Bruno is a much better defender.

I think the foxhateram is overreacting saying we are 'cheating' and it is a 'disgrace' but I kind of half feel his annoyance that these good players that are ours are being fobbed off.

To be honest, i think Van Arnholt played well on Saturday and so did alot of people around me, but i understand a lot of people disagree with me on that one.

Just think people need to remember that our best players are those that were here under Sousa and raised their game to meet Sven's high standards, players such as Hobbs have not and it is wrong to say they haven't been given a chance.

[Foxhateram]

Could not agree more.

It's not a sensible tactic to get rid of good young players with plenty of time to develop, in favour of short term loans of players who we'll no doubt have little chance of signing permanently.

If Sven doesn't want Waggy and Hobbs now, I doubt he ever will.

What happens if we don't go up? Mee, Van Aanholt, Naughton, Bruma and Yakubu will go back and players like King and Wellens might ask for transfers.

We are playing the short game, granted we are doing well at the minute but I fear for the future.

Glad someone agrees, i knew i would get shot down for my responses to this thread but i feel very strongly about the issue. As judging by your post you do too.

In response to my misjudgment of Bruma apologies i obviously had him mixed up with someone else in my mind.

[Al-aLondon-Foxile]

You're judging then on championship & div1 levels. We are looking to build a team for the premier league.

Fryatt - never that level IMO, although untested there.

Morrison - as above. But how you can compare him favourably to Naughton I don't know, completely different gravy!

Hobbs - bit of a fans favourite, but sometimes you've gotta take the blinkers off. I think he has potential which was showed last term, loss of confidence, a regular partner & loss of NP have probably all added to his inconsistency this season. Loan out & get him back to form. One for the future most possibly.

Waghorn - looks poor in warm ups & if he is showing the same in training I'd be concerned. Again it's not working out for him and a loan might be appropriate. However, he is good strength in depth for us but needs game time which Sven seems to be denying him.

[Stevosevic]

Could not agree more.

It's not a sensible tactic to get rid of good young players with plenty of time to develop, in favour of short term loans of players who we'll no doubt have little chance of signing permanently.

If Sven doesn't want Waggy and Hobbs now, I doubt he ever will.

What happens if we don't go up? Mee, Van Aanholt, Naughton, Bruma and Yakubu will go back and players like King and Wellens might ask for transfers.

We are playing the short game, granted we are doing well at the minute but I fear for the future.

Do people think that Sven will stop attracting players here if we don't go up? Sven will make good signings in the summer, whether we go up or not, and must be given a chance to build HIS team then. We all know that usually, not many permanent transfers happen in January.

[ithuriel]

players come and go, it is the club that matters.

all the players that are here today will sooner or later leave, it is where they leave the club that matters and sven's objective is to get this club into the premier league within two years.

i'd be more worried if sven decided to try and develop players and we went no where and when those players got to a certain level thought of themselves and moved to the premier league anyway.

[Kitchandro]

To be honest, i think Van Arnholt played well on Saturday and so did alot of people around me, but i understand a lot of people disagree with me on that one.

Just think people need to remember that our best players are those that were here under Sousa and raised their game to meet Sven's high standards, players such as Hobbs have not and it is wrong to say they haven't been given a chance.

They were here under Sousa but they were also here under Pearson. Pearson showed faith in his players and made them believe in themselves, and look where it got them. Sven is bringing in some quality players no doubt, but I think there are 2 sides to it, and the other one is getting the best out of the players you've got. This type of man-management skill is what made O'Neill such a success. Like I said yesterday, I think Sven is playing a risky game, and IMO it wouldn't hurt to nurture some of our current young talent as well as bringing in Premier League players (some of which have not proven themselves in the long term yet).

It just seems that Sven has been trying to replace certain players from minute one. I mean it's hard to deny that he's been trying to replace Weale, Bruno and Hobbs. I think this has made it difficult for them to get any consistency (which they all had last season). Likewise, it's hard to deny that he has favoured players like Vassell because he has been playing him out of position and he isn't delivering, yet he stills gets picked ahead of Dyer who's specialist position is where Vassell is playing.

It's funny people mention Gallagher, Wellens and Dyer 'stepping up to the plate' and raising their game - when in fact most people were slating those players on here a few months ago and saying they weren't good enough, much like people are saying about Hobbs and Waghorn now. Could it be that they were always good enough but they started to find some form when Sven showed faith in them?

The point I'm trying to make is that Hobbs is the same person he was last season. We all thought he was good enough last season, now he's going through a difficult period but I don't agree that he's all of a sudden so bad that he's being told he can go out on loan.

[Ricey]

Do people think that Sven will stop attracting players here if we don't go up? Sven will make good signings in the summer, whether we go up or not, and must be given a chance to build HIS team then. We all know that usually, not many permanent transfers happen in January.

Quite possibly, but we know from last season that Waghorn, Fryatt, Hobbs and Morrison are good at Championship level and will only get better.

Another worry is the disruption is causes, especially at the back, by getting rid of players that are in-bedded into squad in favour of young loan players.

Our defence looked shaky on Saturday and it's no wonder considering the changes.

[davieG]

Lovely sarcasm there, this however was quite obviously not what i was suggesting. If you read my post you will see that the problem i have is that we are loaning other teams "talent" when we have our own talent already. I cannot understand why Mee, and Bruma get in ahead of Hobbs. Hobbs has experience in this league and has not put a foot wrong since being here, he was also young player of the season and overall player of the season last year.

I just don't understand why Sven feels the need for a complete overhaul of the side, when we quite clearly have our own talent that we could be bringing on, just seems silly to replace talent with loans, which even if they were to sign would cost us money, when we have our talented young players that have done well for us already, which would cost us nothing.

Van aanholt > Berner fair enough. Berner is getting on a bit and we have no young LB to replace him. So fair do's

Naughton > Morrison was a bit harsh, Morrison did well at right back but admitted Naughton has done very well since being here.

Then it gets messy:

Mee/Bruma > Hobbs ?. Mee as far as i have seen is no better than Hobbs and i think this replacement is harsh tbh. Bruma has played in the champ before and been steady, nothing special though.

Not a loan but Vassell > Waghorn. Waghorn is young, hungry, quick and strong and has scored as many as Vassell in less than half the amount of games. Vassell is aging, losing his pace, getting tired quickly and has scored 3 in 3 months, but is still chosen every match, says it all really.

similarly Vassell > Fryatt at the time. Fryatt has scored nearly every game at Hull, better form than Yak(not by much admitted), Vassell and Waghorn.

Fyatt, Waghorn, Morrison, Hobbs are all young talents that in my opinion will go on to good things at other clubs, now we are/have rejected them, and yet again we will have lost some bloody good talent and not even for a decent price, ala Gradel.

In response to DavieG, I did not mean to come across as moaning, merely just stating my opinion. I see your point, but are Mee and Bruma honestly that much better than Hobbs, Hobbs is part of the England set up so he is obviously rated. I am fine with replcements that obviously enhance the team i.e. Van aaholt > berner or Naughton > Morrison, but are the likes of Mee. Bruma, Vassell really that much better than what we have already?

Yes sorry about the use of 'moaning' I do get what your saying. I don't know about Bruma but Mee, apart from his first game looks far more suitable to the style that Sven is looking for plus he's a million times more comfortable in the left CB position. Mee hasn't replaced Hobbs because that was never his best position Bamba has, so you need to compare them.

Fryatt wasn't suited to a 433 game the only way we could accommodate him would be to change to a 442 and that would mean dropping one of Yuki, Wellens or King - would that be preferable?

I think Vassell has shown his best performances when he was playing the central striker and I would actually prefer Dyer to him as the wide front man however I'd prefer Vassell to Fryatt in the wide front role.

It's all about opinions, we all see players differently you only need to look at the match ratings to see that.

[ithuriel]

o'niel shipped out fan favourites to build the team he wanted and was proven right, bad example to use

corica, joachim were shipped out to provide funds for claridge and lennon with izzet and watts on loan.

[Kitchandro]

Vassell deserves more credit than he has been given, Waghorn is in competition with Yakubu not Vassell, Waghorn is useless on the wing.

Then you could say Vassell is not in competition with Dyer, because Vassell is useless on the wing. But Vassell is still inexplicably keeping Dyer out the team.

Waghorn performed quite well on the wing last season. Yes he's wasted out there but he's better than Vassell.

Can I point out at this point that I don't hate Sven and I think he's doing a great job overall, I just havve some reservations about this situation.

[davieG]

Bamba is great but he wasn't replacing Hobbs, he was replacing Morrison. For me, Bamba is the kind of centre back that would compliment hobbs like Brown did last season which is why I would have liked to see there partnership given a few more games.

Van Aanholt is said to be the next Ashley Cole but he's not been better than Bruno so far that's for sure. Cunningham was a real assett going forward but Bruno is a much better defender.

I think the foxhateram is overreacting saying we are 'cheating' and it is a 'disgrace' but I kind of half feel his annoyance that these good players that are ours are being fobbed off.

Bamba is Right CB, Brown was a Left CB there's no comparison between the two with Hobbs playing in his natural and best position with Brown. Hoobs has only been play the left CB role because we've had no other options there.

Bamba has replaced Hobbs.

[Stevosevic]

Then you could say Vassell is not in competition with Dyer, because Vassell is useless on the wing. But Vassell is still inexplicably keeping Dyer out the team.

Waghorn performed quite well on the wing last season. Yes he's wasted out there but he's better than Vassell.

Can I point out at this point that I don't hate Sven and I think he's doing a great job overall, I just havve some reservations about this situation.

I personally don't think he is useless on the wing. So i stand by my point.

[Guest Basildon Fox]

They were here under Sousa but they were also here under Pearson. Pearson showed faith in his players and made them believe in themselves, and look where it got them. Sven is bringing in some quality players no doubt, but I think there are 2 sides to it, and the other one is getting the best out of the players you've got. This type of man-management skill is what made O'Neill such a success. Like I said yesterday, I think Sven is playing a risky game, and IMO it wouldn't hurt to nurture some of our current young talent as well as bringing in Premier League players (some of which have not proven themselves in the long term yet).

It just seems that Sven has been trying to replace certain players from minute one. I mean it's hard to deny that he's been trying to replace Weale, Bruno and Hobbs. I think this has made it difficult for them to get any consistency (which they all had last season). Likewise, it's hard to deny that he has favoured players like Vassell because he has been playing him out of position and he isn't delivering, yet he stills gets picked ahead of Dyer who's specialist position is where Vassell is playing.

It's funny people mention Gallagher, Wellens and Dyer 'stepping up to the plate' and raising their game - when in fact most people were slating those players on here a few months ago and saying they weren't good enough, much like people are saying about Hobbs and Waghorn now. Could it be that they were always good enough but they started to find some form when Sven showed faith in them?

The point I'm trying to make is that Hobbs is the same person he was last season. We all thought he was good enough last season, now he's going through a difficult period but I don't agree that he's all of a sudden so bad that he's being told he can go out on loan.

It could well be that they are more suited to SGE's style of play which is why we are starting to see the best of them.

[teblin]

Due to the manager NOT the players!

The manager didn't play the games, the players did.

[Stevosevic]

The manager didn't play the games, the players did.

And it was Hobbs/Morrison responsible for the horror shows at Palace/Portsmouth/Norwich this season.