Anti Sven chat

[MC Prussian]

Sven had to use the loan market they cried - All the teams in the promotion race have loan players.

Yes they do but other clubs use them to enhance the existing squad. They're not there to replace existing players - to stand there as well paid testament to the fact that the existing players a're not rated by their manager. it's the way he's used loan players not the fact that he has used loan players. No complaints about Naughton - we were weak at right back and Naughton is a massive improvement. Not only that but there's an outside chance Spurs will be stupid and bloated enough to let him go. Great call. But first Hobbs and now Vitor have been snubbed in favour of Bruma - who will never stay and as yet has proved to be no better than either. Neither Kirkland or Ricardo were massively better than Weale. Kirkland was worse, Ricardo certainly no better.

What this tells me is that Sven has a preference for players who come with big reputations. International, caps, big money transfers, big names. This blinds him to players who are on the way down and to players whose decline is due to their own lack of motivation. Let us take Vassell - a non-loan player. Here we have a former England player in the wilderness with pace to burn. What a coup to rescue and revive him! But while DV nearly always threatens and often looks a class above you can see why he ended up in the wilderness. His goal-scoring record is hopeless for a wide forward in a 4-3-3 playing one tier below where he himself says he wants to play.

It's not anti-Sven to say that, you can't assume that everyone who criticises his approach and doesn't worship at his celebrity brilliance is just a mindless moron who is always moaning, seeing the negative and can't wait for LCFC to fall apart. There are legitimate concerns about his approach. In a nutshell he's achieved the worst of all possible worlds - he's failed to develop any of the players he inherited (you could make a case for Gallagher I suppose), failed to build a temporary team to get us promoted and failed to lay any meaningful foundations for next season.

6 months in charge. Little preparation. We were once 24th in the table. Currently sit in 11th, with the scenario of making it to the playoffs still possible.

"... he has achieved the worst of all possible worlds..." - Do you actually believe any of that drivel that you type?

Jesus Christ, I don't even believe in God. But people like you with your silly arguments make me question the overall sanity of mankind.

[davieG]

I worked this out prior to the weekends games, so the figures will obviously have changed a little pt average wise.

Last Season - Pearson

37 Games

61 points

1.65 pt average

This season - Sousa / Powell / Sven

37 Games

55 points

1.49 pt average

6 points behind last seasons total, now take in to account the start we had for the first 9 games.

Under Sven

27 games

47 points

1.74 pt average.

(Pearsons first 27 games in this league he averaged 1.56)

Even if you add this weeks game into it Svens pt per game total is still higher than what Pearson averaged up to game 37. Factor into that he didn't have a preseason, a summer transfer window and was taking over a team on a downward spiral. Is he or the team as bad as you are making out?

You're

[topharry123]

Sven had to use the loan market they cried - All the teams in the promotion race have loan players.

Yes they do but other clubs use them to enhance the existing squad. They're not there to replace existing players - to stand there as well paid testament to the fact that the existing players a're not rated by their manager. it's the way he's used loan players not the fact that he has used loan players. No complaints about Naughton - we were weak at right back and Naughton is a massive improvement. Not only that but there's an outside chance Spurs will be stupid and bloated enough to let him go. Great call. But first Hobbs and now Vitor have been snubbed in favour of Bruma - who will never stay and as yet has proved to be no better than either. Neither Kirkland or Ricardo were massively better than Weale. Kirkland was worse, Ricardo certainly no better.

What this tells me is that Sven has a preference for players who come with big reputations. International, caps, big money transfers, big names. This blinds him to players who are on the way down and to players whose decline is due to their own lack of motivation. Let us take Vassell - a non-loan player. Here we have a former England player in the wilderness with pace to burn. What a coup to rescue and revive him! But while DV nearly always threatens and often looks a class above you can see why he ended up in the wilderness. His goal-scoring record is hopeless for a wide forward in a 4-3-3 playing one tier below where he himself says he wants to play.

It's not anti-Sven to say that, you can't assume that everyone who criticises his approach and doesn't worship at his celebrity brilliance is just a mindless moron who is always moaning, seeing the negative and can't wait for LCFC to fall apart. There are legitimate concerns about his approach. In a nutshell he's achieved the worst of all possible worlds - he's failed to develop any of the players he inherited (you could make a case for Gallagher I suppose), failed to build a temporary team to get us promoted and failed to lay any meaningful foundations for next season.

I don't see how he has failed like you say in the last paragraph. He's had 1 transfer window to build a team which can't possibly be done by any manager. He brought in some cover for this season with the hope of making an audacious bid for the play offs. He's not made it yet and looks like he won't. But he needs the summer I believe to build a decent foundation of players with his own style before criticizing his choices of players so far. Maybe he's not brought on too many players from their heights of last season, but he has definitely picked them up from where they were when he took over. I like your points that he seems to have a preference for big names players, but I think he took a chance on a lot of these players to make a big play for promotion. If the basics are the same next season then what you've written will be spot on. However, I think we need to see what happens over the summer and what he does to prepare for a full season in charge with the chance to bring in a lot of his own players rather than just a few loanees mid season.

[Babylon]

You're

I know.

I think I'll go on a little break, it's almost like facts don't matter at the moment.

Svens shit, his signings are shit, he's spent £175m, loaned 47 defenders, he's loaned shit players to replace world class ones like Morrison and Berner, not picked my favourite (badly out of form) players, not signed permanent players when the window has been closed or paid over inflated sums in January. He's not got them running around like headless chickens showing "pashun", if he had we'd have a better points per game ratio than Pearson... what's that, he has? Ok well forget that one. Ricardo has cost us every single goal so far because he doesn't organise his defence and doesn't tell them to head the ball away. etc

[smudgerfox]

6 months in charge. Little preparation. We were once 26th in the table. Currently sit in 11th, with the scenario of making it to the playoffs still possible.

"... he has achieved the worst of all possible worlds..." - Do you actually believe any of that drivel that you type?

Jesus Christ, I don't even believe in God. But people like you with your silly arguments make me question the overall sanity of mankind.

Yes it must be difficult for you being such an intellectual giant. And if we were once 26th in the table and we're now 11th well that can only be down to Sven and no other manager could have achieved that. Oh no - he managed England once you know. Go back to the start of the season and tell me what we've achieved (assuming we don't make the play offs) since August

Wellens and Gallagher have improved, Bamba, Abe and Vassell are decent players who've arrived, King has developed, it's not a lot is it? Virtually every other, fully signed, player has stayed at the same level or gone backwards. That's hardly a testament to good managment is it?

[m00nie]

yea nothing to discuss really..

if we miss out this season it will be just because of the poor start by PS, but once svens had the pre season we will blitz every team next season..

i mean were flying high,confidence is up, got great squad in depth,formations are spot on, the back up plans are even better , billions available to him.....

everythings perfect..

[Babylon]

yea nothing to discuss really..

if we miss out this season it will be just because of the poor start by PS, but once svens had the pre season we will blitz every team next season..

i mean were flying high,confidence is up, got great squad in depth,formations are spot on, the back up plans are even better , billions available to him.....

everythings perfect..

Yup

[21st Century Fox]

Yes it must be difficult for you being such an intellectual giant. And if we were once 26th in the table and we're now 11th well that can only be down to Sven and no other manager could have achieved that. Oh no - he managed England once you know. Go back to the start of the season and tell me what we've achieved (assuming we don't make the play offs) since August

Wellens and Gallagher have improved, Bamba, Abe and Vassell are decent players who've arrived, King has developed, it's not a lot is it? Virtually every other, fully signed, player has stayed at the same level or gone backwards. That's hardly a testament to good managment is it?

Whats your point?

Sven gave you hope of the play-offs and then dashed them, he didn't work a miracle?

Considering the start we had which manager do you suggest would have been capable of getting us up into the play-offs with the players we already had?

[Libertine]

GIRRIT WAAALLLSSHEEEH

[Corky]

We were once 26th in the table.

We weren't that bad!

[Babylon]

yea nothing to discuss really..

if we miss out this season it will be just because of the poor start by PS, but once svens had the pre season we will blitz every team next season..

i mean were flying high,confidence is up, got great squad in depth,formations are spot on, the back up plans are even better , billions available to him.....

everythings perfect..

How about we find a happy medium. He's done a good job so far and turned us around in fairly difficult circumstances. We need to sort some problems out like getting a few more permanent signings of quality if we can. He needs to be fair and if people are in form they stay in the team. If they are in poor form, others get a chance to prove themselves.

We try and finder a striker who can put the ball in the net and a tough midfielder who can boss the middle of the park whilst inspiring others around him. We try and play with a bit more tempo to our game to try and make things happen, rather than wait for things to happen.... we storm the league, Sven is King, everyone's happy (except cc star) and we all live happily ever after.

[Houdini Logic]

And if we were once 26th in the table and we're now 11th well that can only be down to Sven and no other manager could have achieved that.

Sarcasm aside, you don't think that's a good achievement?

[21st Century Fox]

No one's saying its an achievement but with the start we had, the mess the squad was in, its not the worst situation we could have been in. Give him a pre-season and a decent chance to build a squad of players he actually has time to put together and then, judge him.

[Houdini Logic]

No one's saying its an achievement but with the start we had, the mess the squad was in, its not the worst situation we could have been in. Give him a pre-season and a decent chance to build a squad of players he actually has time to put together and then, judge him.

I am

[21st Century Fox]

I am

Yeah I get you now, I thought you were ACTUALLY being sarcastic, my bad

[Houdini Logic]

Yeah I get you now, I thought you were ACTUALLY being sarcastic, my bad

[m00nie]

How about we find a happy medium. He's done a good job so far and turned us around in fairly difficult circumstances. We need to sort some problems out like getting a few more permanent signings of quality if we can. He needs to be fair and if people are in form they stay in the team. If they are in poor form, others get a chance to prove themselves.

We try and finder a striker who can put the ball in the net and a tough midfielder who can boss the middle of the park whilst inspiring others around him. We try and play with a bit more tempo to our game to try and make things happen, rather than wait for things to happen.... we storm the league, Sven is King, everyone's happy (except cc star + probally couple others out there) and we all live happily ever after.

amen

[AlphaMaleFox]

(under Sousa) We were bottom of the table, playing some woeful stuff, had a defence that couldn't defend, were unfit, low on confidence

The nPower Championship 2010-2011 - Full Form Table (Last 6 Games):

....................P......W......D......L......CS......FtS......F......A......GD......Pt......PPG

1.Bristol...........6......5......0......1.......2........0.....14......6......+8......15.....2.50

2.QPR...............6......5......0......1.......4........1......9......3......+6......15.....2.50

3.Reading...........6......4......2......0.......1........0.....15......8......+7......14.....2.33

4.Portsmouth........6......4......1......1.......5........1......7......2......+5......13.....2.17

5.Norwich...........6......3......3......0.......1........0.....11......6......+5......12.....2.00

6.Watford...........6......3......2......1.......3........0.....10......4......+6......11.....1.83

7.Swansea...........6......3......1......2.......2........1......9......6......+3......10.....1.67

8.Hull..............6......3......1......2.......3........2......4......4.......0......10.....1.67

9.Burnley...........6......3......1......2.......2........2......6......8......-2......10.....1.67

10.Millwall.........6......2......2......2.......3........2......9......6......+3.......8.....1.33

11.PNE..............6......2......2......2.......1........0.....10......8......+2.......8.....1.33

12.Cardiff..........6......2......2......2.......2........2......9......8......+1.......8.....1.33

13.Leeds............6......2......2......2.......1........3.....10.....11......-1.......8.....1.33

14.Direby...........6......2......2......2.......2........1......7......8......-1.......8.....1.33

15.Boro.............6......2......2......2.......1........2......7.....11......-4.......8.....1.33

16.Ipswich..........6......2......1......3.......3........3......5......8......-3.......7.....1.17

17.Barnsley.........6......1......3......2.......1........3......7......9......-2.......6.....1.00

17.Donny............6......1......3......2.......1........2......7......9......-2.......6.....1.00

19.Sheff Yoo........6......2......0......4.......1........3......6......9......-3.......6.....1.00

20.C Palace.........6......1......2......3.......1........2......7......9......-2.......5.....0.83

21.Leicester City...6......1......1......4.......1........3......6......8......-2.......4.....0.67

22.Notts F****t.....6......0......3......3.......2........3......4......7......-3.......3.....0.50

23.Covscum..........6......0......3......3.......0........1......6.....11......-5.......3.....0.50

24.S****horpe.......6......1......0......5.......1........4......2.....12.....-10.......3.....0.50

You say Ricardo needs dropping, what about Bamba? Cost us goals against Cardiff, QPR, Norwich and Pompey

Both Sven's signings...

[MC Prussian]

The nPower Championship 2010-2011 - Full Form Table (Last 6 Games):

Under Sousa, we were last in the Championship on the 28th of August and then again on the 25th of September 2010. FACT.

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

I worked this out prior to the weekends games, so the figures will obviously have changed a little pt average wise.

Last Season - Pearson

37 Games

61 points

1.65 pt average

This season - Sousa / Powell / Sven

37 Games

55 points

1.49 pt average

6 points behind last seasons total, now take in to account the start we had for the first 9 games.

Under Sven

27 games

47 points

1.74 pt average.

(Pearsons first 27 games in this league he averaged 1.56)

Even if you add this weeks game into it Svens pt per game total is still higher than what Pearson averaged up to game 37. Factor into that he didn't have a preseason, a summer transfer window and was taking over a team on a downward spiral. Is he or the team as bad as you are making out?

I've not looked at this thread for a bit, and I'm starting to think I opened pandora's box...! But how can anyone argue against this...? It supports one rational argument, whilst shitting on the anti Sven bandwagon. Case closed as far as I'm concerned. Lovely debate mind!

[AlphaMaleFox]

Ok, so let's see who we played under Sousa:1.Crystal Palace (L; strong home record), 2.Boro (D, decent performance, failed to score), 3.Burnley (L; strong home record, currently above us),4. Reading (L; still then with Gylfi Siggurdsson - class!, currently above us), 5.Covscum (D, Sven?), 6.Cardiff (W; great performance), 7.QPR (L; who?, Sven ), 8.Pompey (L; shambolic defense, but also bad luck, again Sven ) , 9.Norwich (L, quite decent but again unlucky result, Sven ). Frankly, it was a tough start to the season for any other manager (Eriksson, Pearson, anyone) ... But a common myth is that we lost this season in the first 9 matches...

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

Ok, so let's see who we played under Sousa:1.Crystal Palace (L; strong home record), 2.Boro (D, decent performance, failed to score), 3.Burnley (L; strong home record, currently above us),4. Reading (L; still then with Gylfi Siggurdsson - class!, currently above us), 5.Covscum (D, Sven?), 6.Cardiff (W; great performance), 7.QPR (L; who?, Sven ), 8.Pompey (L; shambolic defense, but also bad luck, again Sven ) , 9.Norwich (L, quite decent result but again unlucky, Sven ). Frankly, it was a tough start to the season for any other manager (Eriksson, Pearson, anyone) ... But a common myth is that we lost this season in the first 9 matches...

erm...?

[21st Century Fox]

It wasn't just a case of the results under Sousa it was the fitness, morale, motivation and general discord that Sven had to turn around since he took over.

[AlphaMaleFox]

It wasn't just a case of the results under Sousa it was the fitness, morale, motivation and general discord that Sven had to turn around since he took over.

We currently lack all this, I'm afraid

[The Doctor]

Ok, so let's see who we played under Sousa:1.Crystal Palace (L; strong home record), 2.Boro (D, decent performance, failed to score), 3.Burnley (L; strong home record, currently above us),4. Reading (L; still then with Gylfi Siggurdsson - class!, currently above us), 5.Covscum (D, Sven?), 6.Cardiff (W; great performance), 7.QPR (L; who?, Sven ), 8.Pompey (L; shambolic defense, but also bad luck, again Sven ) , 9.Norwich (L, quite decent but again unlucky result, Sven ). Frankly, it was a tough start to the season for any other manager (Eriksson, Pearson, anyone) ... But a common myth is that we lost this season in the first 9 matches...

1: Crystal Palace - Only just survived last season and are struggling again this season.

2: Middlesborough - Struggling this season despite an influx of fairly good quality players (boyd, thompson etc.) last summer

3: Burnley: Fair enough

4: Reading: One man does not a team make, siggurdsson was good but on the whole their squad at the time was no better than ours.

5: Coventry: Poor side, currently struggling (although we failed to beat them under sven as well)

6: Cardiff - fair enough

7: QPR - inept performance back then and although they also beat us under sven, we played much better against them with sven.

8: Portsmouth - bottom of the league at that time, 2 points from 7, absolutely destroyed - under sven they arrived in better form and yet had we been clinical we'd have destroyed them

9: Norwich: Poor there and poor here.

If you are trying to suggest that sousa was better than sven (your comments on norwich and portsmouth) or we didn't lose this season in the first 9 matches (5 points from just under 20% of the season(19.5%) = 25 points from the entire season had that form been maintained) then may i suggest you go and see a psychiatrist/ have yourself committed because you are clearly insane.