Anti Sven chat

[m00nie]

And if Sven was here at the start of the season we would have probably went up this season. But he wasn't. Get over it

Our we probaly would have hit this rocky patch sooner and seen there's no plan b

[The Year Of The Fox]

If he had of been here from the start we'd be higher up the league using the players sousa had.

And seriously I do think sven plays them on past reputation

[Babylon]

Where did we finish last season? Where will we finish this season? We came within a frenchmans boot of going up last season I reckon

I worked this out prior to the weekends games, so the figures will obviously have changed a little pt average wise.

Last Season - Pearson

37 Games

61 points

1.65 pt average

This season - Sousa / Powell / Sven

37 Games

55 points

1.49 pt average

6 points behind last seasons total, now take in to account the start we had for the first 9 games.

Under Sven

27 games

47 points

1.74 pt average.

(Pearsons first 27 games in this league he averaged 1.56)

Even if you add this weeks game into it Svens pt per game total is still higher than what Pearson averaged up to game 37. Factor into that he didn't have a preseason, a summer transfer window and was taking over a team on a downward spiral. Is he or the team as bad as you are making out?

[Guest Bilo]

Fucking hell.

I really do question the sanity of some people. Why do some of our fans think we have a divine right to a play-off spot at least after the start we made under Sousa? We were bottom of the table, playing some woeful stuff, had a defence that couldn't defend, were unfit, low on confidence and had key squad members handing in transfer requests. That we managed to attract a manager who only in the past three years has managed a Premiership side to European qualification and a World Cup squad with some of the best players in the world in it is nothing short of miraculous after that.

Look at Sheffield United, look at Coventry, look at Derby, look at Middlesbrough. All clubs not a million miles away in terms of finances and stature to us and all with mediocre managers, and seasons that were over by Christmas. Most playing poor football with average players and fans with far more reason to be disillusioned than us. How easily could any of their situations be the one we could have found ourselves in? How easy would it have been for Mandaric to persuade the Thais to have given Megson or Dowie a go here as the cheap option if Sven hadn't gone for us? We could be looking at a four point gap between us and 21st like Sheffield United rather than the five point gap between us and the play-offs. So we're unlikely to make the play-offs, does anyone really believe we won't improve next season? When Sven is backed with more funds, has a summer to carry on building a team a pre-season and greater confidence is instilled in the squad? We could very easily do what QPR have done next season with the team we have being bolstered by some judicious acquisitions.

This isn't a happy clappy pro-Sven brigade viewpoint, it's just realism. After the start we made, it's a wonder we have a manager like Sven and are only now beginning to give up on promotion for this year.

[Simmo86]

Sorry forgot about naughton.

I was thinking primarily of ricardo yak and vassell. Yaks playing on the off chance hel do something magical like he did against derby. Mee though usually ok was woeful on saturday, and berner wouldve been the better option.

As for the other bloke asking about being bottom- of course its different if we were bottom now,theres what, 8 games to go? With the squad we had we were never realistically gonna go down-once sousa had left! No-one pays attention to the tables in october time. All sven had to do was put the players in their correct positions- something that anyone who watched us play last season couldve done.

We know from his time at england that he has his favourites. Thats the same here. As someone rightly said on the phone in after pompey, theres no competition for places. How can there be when vitor gets dropped. Or ricardo at fault again on saturday keeps his place? It doesnt make sense. This isnt me saying svens got to go before anyone twists owt. Hes just gotta be much more open minded. World class (whether current or in the past) does not guarentee a winning team. Given the choice id rather have the starting 11 from this time last season than this season

What the same Berner who got torn to shreads against Norwich and has been a yard off the pace all season?

The team from last year had momentum, if it was the same this season we would be struggling in the bottom half.

You say Ricardo needs dropping, what about Bamba? Cost us goals against Cardiff, QPR, Norwich and Pompey, why are you not pushing for him to be dropped? Is it because you can sing his name in a nice little tune?

You need a good dose of realism, we we're bottom when he took over. At least give him a pre season and a proper transfer window before you get on his back!

[teblin]

I worked this out prior to the weekends games, so the figures will obviously have changed a little pt average wise.

Last Season - Pearson

37 Games

61 points

1.65 pt average

This season - Sousa / Powell / Sven

37 Games

55 points

1.49 pt average

6 points behind last seasons total, now take in to account the start we had for the first 9 games.

Under Sven

27 games

47 points

1.74 pt average.

(Pearsons first 27 games in this league he averaged 1.56)

Even if you add this weeks game into it Svens pt per game total is still higher than what Pearson averaged up to game 37. Factor into that he didn't have a preseason, a summer transfer window and was taking over a team on a downward spiral. Is he or the team as bad as you are making out?

Spot on!

I was looking at this too think its 1.67 taking into account Saturday which would give us 63 points for 38 games which would sit us joint 4th.

Some people need to have a little bit of perspective, I think most people would've taken 5 points off the playoffs with 8 games left if it was given too them when we were bottom.

[MC Prussian]

I'd rather like to know what people actually have against Sven.

And why there's still so many Ricardo haters out there.

[Babylon]

I'd rather like to know what people actually have against Sven.

And why there's still so many Ricardo haters out there.

They aren't Nigel Pearson and Chris Weale.

[m00nie]

Fucking hell.

I really do question the sanity of some people. Why do some of our fans think we have a divine right to a play-off spot at least after the start we made under Sousa? We were bottom of the table, playing some woeful stuff, had a defence that couldn't defend, were unfit, low on confidence and had key squad members handing in transfer requests. That we managed to attract a manager who only in the past three years has managed a Premiership side to European qualification and a World Cup squad with some of the best players in the world in it is nothing short of miraculous after that.

Look at Sheffield United, look at Coventry, look at Derby, look at Middlesbrough. All clubs not a million miles away in terms of finances and stature to us and all with mediocre managers, and seasons that were over by Christmas. Most playing poor football with average players and fans with far more reason to be disillusioned than us. How easily could any of their situations be the one we could have found ourselves in? How easy would it have been for Mandaric to persuade the Thais to have given Megson or Dowie a go here as the cheap option if Sven hadn't gone for us? We could be looking at a four point gap between us and 21st like Sheffield United rather than the five point gap between us and the play-offs. So we're unlikely to make the play-offs, does anyone really believe we won't improve next season? When Sven is backed with more funds, has a summer to carry on building a team a pre-season and greater confidence is instilled in the squad? We could very easily do what QPR have done next season with the team we have being bolstered by some judicious acquisitions.

This isn't a happy clappy pro-Sven brigade viewpoint, it's just realism. After the start we made, it's a wonder we have a manager like Sven and are only now beginning to give up on promotion for this year.

but how do you know a dowie wouldnt have got us to where we are?? you cant say for certain he wouldnt.. (im not saying we should have got him just playing devils advocate there)

also we was at 7th at one point, why shouldnt play offs be a reaonable target after getting so close??

please tell me whats realism about saying we can quite easily doing a qpr next season ?? do you know the thais are going to back him again? do you know how much he would actually need to get a squad again ?? thats before the strength of the teams coming down etc.. yet again someone else that keeps saying next season this, give sven the summer etc, if he cant motivate the players all week in training for 1 game at the weeekend why is the summer going to be so different??

people like yourself keep getting uptight and questioning peoples sanity etc yet if you opened your eyes there are things that is debatable and questionable.. nothing is as secure and as plain sailing as you are making out.. people are just expressing there concerns as they can see that..

[MC Prussian]

They aren't Nigel Pearson and Chris Weale.

Or we have still too many reactionary fans that live in the past instead of the present.

[Babylon]

if he cant motivate the players all week in training for 1 game at the weeekend why is the summer going to be so different??

He has motivated them to a better point per game average than Pearson. Perhaps Pearson also couldn't motivate them?

Nobody minds managers being critisised, but only if people do it sensibly. There are plenty of things he needs to remedy, some of them being his own decisions. The "moaners" for want of a better word, do make some valid points. They just go ridiculously over the top about things, that's why there are so many people sticking up for him.

[m00nie]

He has motivated them to a better point per game average than Pearson. Perhaps Pearson also couldn't motivate them?

if the stats stay that way come the and then fair enough, if we go on a slide they will change to np favour?

Nobody minds managers being critisised, but only if people do it sensibly. There are plenty of things he needs to remedy, some of them being his own decisions. But people just go ridiculously over the top about things, that's why there are so many people sticking up for him.

but to be fair that goes both ways, people critize something and others go over the top in replies, "FFS".. "get real" "people insane" etc, its like people are out of order for daring to critize anything.

i like sven and back him all the way but when i actually sit down and think about things everything is not as plain sailing and things do concern me..

[bettso]

The fact of the matter is Sven is a brilliant manager, but the majority of Leicester fans would prefer to see a British manager in charge.

It's not a racist thing, it's basically an identity thing. Like the majority of Arsenal fans are now saying (Despite Wengers success), they want someone like David Moyes to take over.

The reasoning is, managers like Moyes, O'Neill, Allardyce, Pulis etc 'understand' the 'passion' aspect that supporters so badly crave for. Personally speaking, I like big names and marquee signings. They're paid to do a job and I dont believe for a second that if any player were offered a better deal elsewhere they wouldn't jump ship (Robbie Savage is a massive case in point).

Now Sven has made mistakes just as any manager would but I can't see a scenario under any circumstance where we would get any better.

Before Mandric hired Ollie, he had spoken to Warnock and all but agreed terms but said that he didn't hire him because the fans were dead against the idea. Now if Warnock took over that team at that particular time, I personally think we'd be in the Prem already instead of subsequently getting relegated.

The truth of all of this is that the fans never know best.

Never.

[FoxyPV]

Fucking hell.

I really do question the sanity of some people. Why do some of our fans think we have a divine right to a play-off spot at least after the start we made under Sousa? We were bottom of the table, playing some woeful stuff, had a defence that couldn't defend, were unfit, low on confidence and had key squad members handing in transfer requests. That we managed to attract a manager who only in the past three years has managed a Premiership side to European qualification and a World Cup squad with some of the best players in the world in it is nothing short of miraculous after that.

Look at Sheffield United, look at Coventry, look at Derby, look at Middlesbrough. All clubs not a million miles away in terms of finances and stature to us and all with mediocre managers, and seasons that were over by Christmas. Most playing poor football with average players and fans with far more reason to be disillusioned than us. How easily could any of their situations be the one we could have found ourselves in? How easy would it have been for Mandaric to persuade the Thais to have given Megson or Dowie a go here as the cheap option if Sven hadn't gone for us? We could be looking at a four point gap between us and 21st like Sheffield United rather than the five point gap between us and the play-offs. So we're unlikely to make the play-offs, does anyone really believe we won't improve next season? When Sven is backed with more funds, has a summer to carry on building a team a pre-season and greater confidence is instilled in the squad? We could very easily do what QPR have done next season with the team we have being bolstered by some judicious acquisitions.

This isn't a happy clappy pro-Sven brigade viewpoint, it's just realism. After the start we made, it's a wonder we have a manager like Sven and are only now beginning to give up on promotion for this year.

[smudgerfox]

Surely the point is that Sven has done whatever he has done with players who are not LCFC players and who won't be LCFC players unless we achieve promotion and even if we do, some won't stay. So Sven's achievements are the Ferrari parked outside the hovel. You're all admiring his car and that he has the achieved this astonishing purchase when in fact he's copped a dodgy loan and the lenders will be lifting it off the drive anytime soon.

Pearson had his deficiencies, we know that. In Erikkson we have a manager with a record at a much higher level. But he, along with Mandaric, Sousa and the Tops have presided over the moste wasteful and pointless season in LCFC history. The legacy of a play-off side has been torn up for no better reason than we now have the financial backing to bankroll such destruction. Sven has systematically undermined existing players while failing to bring in players who are very much better. True he has brought in Bamba and Naughton is one of the best players i've seen in a blue shirt. Mee and Cunningham were good but would we get either of them? It's possible Pearson wouldn't have attracted any of those players but it's worth noting that his current team (with the apparently hopeless Fryatt and Hobbs) sit one point and one place above us without the string of eye-catchng list of Premiership youngsters and former international loanees in their midst. You get the impression that getting the best out of average talents (look around the top six in the Championship and every team has them) is something Sven considers beneath him. The idea he should spend time developing Hobbs or Waghorn's potential beneath consideration when he can just go and sign Premiership talent off the peg. That's fair enough if his signings justify that "slash and burn" approach. But there are enough doubts about Ricardo, Yakubu, Vassell, Bruma to suggest it's been a very wasteful period.. When we get to the summer he will have to start again..when he could have been already laying foundations for next...

[21st Century Fox]

Sven had to use the loan market! The players we had under Pearson were good for the way Pearson had us set up but some of them just can't cut it when it comes to playing a passing game (e.g. Hobbs) Sven had no chance of getting anyone in permanent during the January transfer window because prices are notoriously over inflated. He's managed to bring in some really good loan players that we might not have be able to get under a different manager without the contacts and reputation that Sven has. Granted players like Mee and the Chelsea boys aren't here for a potential permanent move but if it came off and we were promoted we'd have the cash to spend and the contacts to build a really good squad.

I can't understand how people are knocking Sven for using the loan market! He had no choice, the players we had just can't cut it with his style of play.

[sphericalfox]

Sven had to use the loan market! The players we had under Pearson were good for the way Pearson had us set up but some of them just can't cut it when it comes to playing a passing game (e.g. Hobbs) Sven had no chance of getting anyone in permanent during the January transfer window because prices are notoriously over inflated. He's managed to bring in some really good loan players that we might not have be able to get under a different manager without the contacts and reputation that Sven has. Granted players like Mee and the Chelsea boys aren't here for a potential permanent move but if it came off and we were promoted we'd have the cash to spend and the contacts to build a really good squad.

I can't understand how people are knocking Sven for using the loan market! He had no choice, the players we had just can't cut it with his style of play.

[Babylon]

sit one point and one place above us without the string of eye-catchng list of Premiership youngsters and former international loanees in their midst.

Pearsons squad against Norwich contained 5 or 6 loanees from a quick glance. Ours contained 5, so Lord Pearson isn't exactly planning for the future himself there.

Not forgetting Sven had no summer transfer window (I sound like a broken record myself now).

[Trav Le Bleu]

Well if he's lost the plot then he should fit in well with our fans.

[sphericalfox]

Pearsons squad against Norwich contained 5 or 6 loanees from a quick glance. Ours contained 5, so Lord Pearson isn't exactly planning for the future himself there.

Not forgetting Sven had no summer transfer window (I sound like a broken record myself now).

It's like talking to a wall Babylon. Over on 606 there's a contingent who nearly salivating at the thought that we might concede just so they can sing the 'I told you so' song.

[21st Century Fox]

It's like talking to a wall Babylon. Over on 606 there's a contingent who nearly salivating at the thought that we might concede just so they can sing the 'I told you so' song.

The exact reason I can't stand 606 and had to get away. Do we have the most negative doom disabledering fans about or does every club have their share??

[Brown Fox]

Surely the point is that Sven has done whatever he has done with players who are not LCFC players and who won't be LCFC players unless we achieve promotion and even if we do, some won't stay. So Sven's achievements are the Ferrari parked outside the hovel. You're all admiring his car and that he has the achieved this astonishing purchase when in fact he's copped a dodgy loan and the lenders will be lifting it off the drive anytime soon.

Pearson had his deficiencies, we know that. In Erikkson we have a manager with a record at a much higher level. But he, along with Mandaric, Sousa and the Tops have presided over the moste wasteful and pointless season in LCFC history. The legacy of a play-off side has been torn up for no better reason than we now have the financial backing to bankroll such destruction. Sven has systematically undermined existing players while failing to bring in players who are very much better. True he has brought in Bamba and Naughton is one of the best players i've seen in a blue shirt. Mee and Cunningham were good but would we get either of them? It's possible Pearson wouldn't have attracted any of those players but it's worth noting that his current team (with the apparently hopeless Fryatt and Hobbs) sit one point and one place above us without the string of eye-catchng list of Premiership youngsters and former international loanees in their midst. You get the impression that getting the best out of average talents (look around the top six in the Championship and every team has them) is something Sven considers beneath him. The idea he should spend time developing Hobbs or Waghorn's potential beneath consideration when he can just go and sign Premiership talent off the peg. That's fair enough if his signings justify that "slash and burn" approach. But there are enough doubts about Ricardo, Yakubu, Vassell, Bruma to suggest it's been a very wasteful period.. When we get to the summer he will have to start again..when he could have been already laying foundations for next...

How could he have laid foundations when he hasn't been able to buy anyone with no summer transfer window. He's had no choice but to get loanees in.

[smudgerfox]

Sven had to use the loan market they cried - All the teams in the promotion race have loan players.

Yes they do but other clubs use them to enhance the existing squad. They're not there to replace existing players - to stand there as well paid testament to the fact that the existing players a're not rated by their manager. it's the way he's used loan players not the fact that he has used loan players. No complaints about Naughton - we were weak at right back and Naughton is a massive improvement. Not only that but there's an outside chance Spurs will be stupid and bloated enough to let him go. Great call. But first Hobbs and now Vitor have been snubbed in favour of Bruma - who will never stay and as yet has proved to be no better than either. Neither Kirkland or Ricardo were massively better than Weale. Kirkland was worse, Ricardo certainly no better.

What this tells me is that Sven has a preference for players who come with big reputations. International, caps, big money transfers, big names. This blinds him to players who are on the way down and to players whose decline is due to their own lack of motivation. Let us take Vassell - a non-loan player. Here we have a former England player in the wilderness with pace to burn. What a coup to rescue and revive him! But while DV nearly always threatens and often looks a class above you can see why he ended up in the wilderness. His goal-scoring record is hopeless for a wide forward in a 4-3-3 playing one tier below where he himself says he wants to play.

It's not anti-Sven to say that, you can't assume that everyone who criticises his approach and doesn't worship at his celebrity brilliance is just a mindless moron who is always moaning, seeing the negative and can't wait for LCFC to fall apart. There are legitimate concerns about his approach. In a nutshell he's achieved the worst of all possible worlds - he's failed to develop any of the players he inherited (you could make a case for Gallagher I suppose), failed to build a temporary team to get us promoted and failed to lay any meaningful foundations for next season.

[Babylon]

Yes they do but other clubs use them to enhance the existing squad. They're not there to replace existing players - to stand there as well paid testament to the fact that the existing players a're not rated by their manager.

So you think every other loan player at every other club has filled a hole where they had no player, and not because the manager at these clubs thinks the person there currently isn't good enough?

[adam1]

I do have an issue with Sven. He has made two changes that were not necessary. Ricardo for Weale and leaving Berner on the bench. I think that Ricardo is a liability.