Boxing

[GaelicFox]

2 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

The pundits on the BBC had only given Bellew one round before Haye did his ankle.

I thought 1/2/3 bellew , 4/5 haye 

 

and Haye was coming strong 

 

can see how they called that but 

[Nick]

Just now, Finnegan said:

 

The pundits on the BBC had only given Bellew one round before Haye did his ankle.

I'm not sure I would have given Bellew any of the rounds before Haye did his ankle. What that tells us though is Haye landed numerous very good shots that Bellew took like a warrior.

 

Neither of them have the fitness levels or arguably the punching power anymore for this division - The guff at the end said it all - no hunger just made up with themselves for pulling off a payday. Embarrassing for boxing in a way. Had Haye's ankle held up I doubt Bellew would have been able to absorb the punches he was taking in the first 4-5 rounds and would have been knocked out.

 

Thoroughly enjoyed the fight but for all the wrong reasons.

[Finnegan]

Don't think anyone ever doubted Bellew was rugged. I think a lot of us bought in to the Haye hype a bit, probably myself included. Should have had more respect for Bellew, he has always been a bit of a sponge to be fair.

 

Still not winning that in a month of Sunday's without Haye crocking himself mind.

[Countryfox]

On 28 February 2017 at 17:58, GaelicFox said:

 

 

had one of my biggest bets in decades on Haye to win by A finish 

 

On 28 February 2017 at 18:04, Countryfox said:

 

Good enough for me Paddy  ....    I'm off down the bookies !

 

LUCKILY ...     The odds were so sh1te I put a tenner on Bellew.    If you get anymore certs Paddy let me know ...     

[GaelicFox]

41 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 

 

LUCKILY ...     The odds were so sh1te I put a tenner on Bellew.    If you get anymore certs Paddy let me know ...     

Beans on toast for next month or so  

 

well I'll I can't predict an injury can I  

[Kendal Fox]

6 hours ago, Col city fan said:

I agree with pretty much all of this. Haye is now surely finished.

And Bellew....unbelievably gassed wasn't he. I thought it was gonna go the distance.

I think both to an extent are overachievers. Bellew, though winning vs a badly wounded Haye, was obviously the underdog, but he has had some very close fights at light heavy and cruiser and hardly set the world on fire. Haye, made so much noise and controversy to distract from the fact that he was really an ambush style puncher who relied massively on his athleticism but had no other wrinkles, as exposed by an aging Wladimir Klitschko when they finally fought. I never took much from his wins over Mormeck, Maccarinelli and Valuev because I never really rated any of them..

Lewis, Calzaghe and Froch really did fight the best and prevail. Something Haye certainly never did.

[Kendal Fox]

2 hours ago, Swan Lesta said:

I'm not sure I would have given Bellew any of the rounds before Haye did his ankle. What that tells us though is Haye landed numerous very good shots that Bellew took like a warrior.

 

Neither of them have the fitness levels or arguably the punching power anymore for this division - The guff at the end said it all - no hunger just made up with themselves for pulling off a payday. Embarrassing for boxing in a way. Had Haye's ankle held up I doubt Bellew would have been able to absorb the punches he was taking in the first 4-5 rounds and would have been knocked out.

 

Thoroughly enjoyed the fight but for all the wrong reasons.

Just my opinion but I'm not so sure that Haye's injury wasn't already pre existing. I noticed early on in the fight just how flat footed and wide his stance was and how much his footspeed had declined. Also, when he did land shots, seemed like he wasn't able to generate the power through his legs like he normally would. Props to Bellew, but think he benefitted from that!

[GaelicFox]

The best fight at the O2 

 

and not a punch thrown 

 

george is a ginger wet wipe  

 

 

[Manwell Pablo]

8 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

The pundits on the BBC had only given Bellew one round before Haye did his ankle.

 

Sky the same, I had haye one up, dunno how anyone had bellew winning it never mind by a long way.

 

id be very interested to hear the extent of the injury, it it's an Achilles tendant rupture then wow. 

[Manwell Pablo]

6 hours ago, Kendal Fox said:

I think both to an extent are overachievers. Bellew, though winning vs a badly wounded Haye, was obviously the underdog, but he has had some very close fights at light heavy and cruiser and hardly set the world on fire. Haye, made so much noise and controversy to distract from the fact that he was really an ambush style puncher who relied massively on his athleticism but had no other wrinkles, as exposed by an aging Wladimir Klitschko when they finally fought. I never took much from his wins over Mormeck, Maccarinelli and Valuev because I never really rated any of them..

Lewis, Calzaghe and Froch really did fight the best and prevail. Something Haye certainly never did.

 

Tbf I don't see what else haye could of done at welter. Unified the division and moved up, likewise I don't see what else he could of done at heavy, valuev is a car crash of a boxer but his sheer size made him one of the most imposing fighters in a division that was a far cry from the now interesting division we have now. The quality of the fighters he had to get through to achieve those things are not his fault, and lest remember Froch lost to ward, Lewis lost fights he should of won easily, calazaghe is the best supper middleweight in history, but never shared the ring with Sven Ottke who was arguable better than anyone else on joes cv.

 

Haye was an explosive cruiser weight, and was worthy of a heavy weight belt given the state of the division when he won it. He also did at least have the balls to take the wladmir fight and try to take on the best, he came up short, that's boxing. If anything I think this come back was probably best avoided all together to prevent opinions like this developing but I imagine the man cares more about the 0s in his bank account than his legacy, and there is a bit too much of that in boxing these days. 

[Grewks]

Nobody knows how far Bellew can actually go.....because quite simply, people are only judging him on his light heavyweight days, in which it is clear now, he never was.

 

People on twitter laughing at Bellew (which he probably said as a joke initially) calling out Wilder, are probably the same ones who thought he would get 'destroyed' by Haye.

 

Bellew's win last night has earnt the right for him to a massive fight at Goodison....maybe even Wembley if it's against Wilder. 

 

If Haye had won, people would have wanted to see him face Joshua, so I can't see a reason why Bellew shouldn't get a crack at Wilder, an inferior heavyweight to Joshua. 

 

 

 

As for the 'Haye injury' debate. He walked into the ring on two feet, knowing he was not 100%, and began swinging wildly, causing the injury to worsen. He couldn't get near Bellew for the first couple of rounds, and was actually looking slower than the bomber. Haye should've tried outboxing him, e.g. Valuev, but obviously wasn't confident with his stamina.

[lestajigs]

31 minutes ago, Grewks said:

Nobody knows how far Bellew can actually go.....because quite simply, people are only judging him on his light heavyweight days, in which it is clear now, he never was.

 

People on twitter laughing at Bellew (which he probably said as a joke initially) calling out Wilder, are probably the same ones who thought he would get 'destroyed' by Haye.

 

Bellew's win last night has earnt the right for him to a massive fight at Goodison....maybe even Wembley if it's against Wilder. 

 

If Haye had won, people would have wanted to see him face Joshua, so I can't see a reason why Bellew shouldn't get a crack at Wilder, an inferior heavyweight to Joshua. 

 

 

 

As for the 'Haye injury' debate. He walked into the ring on two feet, knowing he was not 100%, and began swinging wildly, causing the injury to worsen. He couldn't get near Bellew for the first couple of rounds, and was actually looking slower than the bomber. Haye should've tried outboxing him, e.g. Valuev, but obviously wasn't confident with his stamina.

Think your forgetting that the injury played a massive part in this fight!!! Bellew v wilder?? Oh please , mate it took Bellew FIVE ROUNDS to get rid of a one legged haye, who couldn't offer anything coming forward because you need your legs for balance and power to punch, I'm not saying before Hayes injury he was cruising, because he wasn't, but come on you cannot really pair Bellew with wilder just from the first 4 rounds, tbf I thought Haye was pretty poor before the 6th just wondering who was ahead on the scorecards to round 6! Fair play to Bellew though but I think it's more of a Poor performance from Haye to a good performance from Bellew if that makes sense  

[Grewks]

18 minutes ago, lestajigs said:

Think your forgetting that the injury played a massive part in this fight!!! Bellew v wilder?? Oh please , mate it took Bellew FIVE ROUNDS to get rid of a one legged haye, who couldn't offer anything coming forward because you need your legs for balance and power to punch, I'm not saying before Hayes injury he was cruising, because he wasn't, but come on you cannot really pair Bellew with wilder just from the first 4 rounds, tbf I thought Haye was pretty poor before the 6th just wondering who was ahead on the scorecards to round 6! Fair play to Bellew though but I think it's more of a Poor performance from Haye to a good performance from Bellew if that makes sense  

Haye walked into that ring on two legs. As soon as he declared him 'completely and 100% fit' at the press conference, he had zero excuses. 

 

Haye became injured 'during the fight', he was swinging wildly because, quite simply, Bellew was 'outboxing' him.

 

 

I don't think Bellew would beat Wilder....but he's deserved a shot. People wanted to see Haye v Joshua if Haye destroyed Bellew, so why can't Bellew face an inferior heavyweight in Wilder?

 

 

In a packed goodison park, anything can happen. Wilder has great KO power, but jesus are him boxing skills way below world level, to be honest, his boxing skills are not too dissimilar to Dave Allen. If Bellew can avoid that big punch, he could win the fight.....i'd also add that Wilder has a very very suspect chin, and had he been caught like Bellew was last night, Wilder would've been on the canvas.

[Grewks]

Also....in his first heavyweight fight, Bellew has fought a guy with a resume greater than all of Wilder's opponents combined.

 

[lestajigs]

1 hour ago, Grewks said:

Also....in his first heavyweight fight, Bellew has fought a guy with a resume greater than all of Wilder's opponents combined.

 

That's true  

[Grewks]

4 minutes ago, lestajigs said:

That's true  

Plus look at it from Bellew's point of view.

 

Against Wilder or Parker, he gets another night at Goodison, probably the biggest payday of his career and a chance to become an all time great.

 

A two-weight world champion...and a world heavyweight champion, which was 3 weights above his career debut .

 

Surely there can't be many that have done that.

[Collibosher70]

none of em are fit too lace sibbos boots

[Guest Col city fan]

6 hours ago, Grewks said:

Plus look at it from Bellew's point of view.

 

Against Wilder or Parker, he gets another night at Goodison, probably the biggest payday of his career and a chance to become an all time great.

 

A two-weight world champion...and a world heavyweight champion, which was 3 weights above his career debut .

 

Surely there can't be many that have done that.

Which would be amazing really because Bellew actually isn't anything special is he? He's a lion, he don't give in, I'll give him that, but if the weights he was fighting in had anything much about them at the moment, I don't think he'd be where he is.

That said, fair play to the man...you can  only beat what's in front of you.

Edited 6 March 2017 by Col city fan

[Nick]

18 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

Which would be amazing really because Bellew actually isn't anything special is he? He's a lion, he don't give in, I'll give him that, but if the weights he was fighting in had anything much about them at the moment, I don't think he'd be where he is.

That said, fair play to the man...you can  only beat what's in front of you.

Absolute unit though for a 14 Stone Cruiserweight - proper chin on him but he's not got the athleticism to step to anything above 14.4 stone.

[Manwell Pablo]

6 hours ago, Grewks said:

Plus look at it from Bellew's point of view.

 

Against Wilder or Parker, he gets another night at Goodison, probably the biggest payday of his career and a chance to become an all time great.

 

A two-weight world champion...and a world heavyweight champion, which was 3 weights above his career debut .

 

Surely there can't be many that have done that.

 

I'm struggling why you think Wilder or Parker, the current defending champions and still bigger international names than Bellew, are going to hop on a plane to and fight Tony in own back yard. Parker maybe because of higher TV revenue, but Wilder surely better off in Las Vegas or New York. 

 

But I think you are right if he can get a deal done with either in the next 12-15 months he will give it a go and retire. I think Wilder has a mandatory rematch with Stiverne to arrange though so I dunno how feasible it will be, could be Parker assuming he deals with Fury.  

[Guest Lako42]

I can't believe how tedious boxing is these days, people still get drawn in by the same money making drama tactics.

 

The public really are special in the way they constantly lap the same old fakery up and people like Hearn exploit it beautifully

[Kendal Fox]

18 hours ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

Tbf I don't see what else haye could of done at welter. Unified the division and moved up, likewise I don't see what else he could of done at heavy, valuev is a car crash of a boxer but his sheer size made him one of the most imposing fighters in a division that was a far cry from the now interesting division we have now. The quality of the fighters he had to get through to achieve those things are not his fault, and lest remember Froch lost to ward, Lewis lost fights he should of won easily, calazaghe is the best supper middleweight in history, but never shared the ring with Sven Ottke who was arguable better than anyone else on joes cv.

 

Haye was an explosive cruiser weight, and was worthy of a heavy weight belt given the state of the division when he won it. He also did at least have the balls to take the wladmir fight and try to take on the best, he came up short, that's boxing. If anything I think this come back was probably best avoided all together to prevent opinions like this developing but I imagine the man cares more about the 0s in his bank account than his legacy, and there is a bit too much of that in boxing these days. 

Just my opinion and I've always felt this way about Haye, not some revisionist view at all. Even in his prime years he was never very active - He only fought 4 times in 3 years between 2009 - 2012 for instance. I've just never been convinced that he's an elite fighter.

 

As for Lewis, he avenged both of his losses and unified the heavyweight division - a very rare feat indeed. Also have to disagree with you about Sven Ottke - he never fought outside of Germany and was involved in some very controversial hometown decisions. Some of those were against guys that Calzaghe had already beaten if I remember correctly. I still think a prime Kessler was a better scalp than Ottke. Again, just my opinion.

Edited 6 March 2017 by Kendal Fox

[shade]

haye walked in to that fight with an injured achilles, when you watch the fight back you can see him almost dragging from the 1st round, his wild swings were because he couldn't transfer his weight effectively, not because he had suddeny become incredibly slow and sloppy.

[leicesterlad1989]

Don't particularly like Haye or Bellew and was extremely disappointing with the outcome. I don't rate Bellews boxing ability and I believe Haye thinks he is better than he actually is.

 

One thing I would say is that during the last week of the fight, the scum reported that the fight would potentially be called off due to a David Haye Achilles injury. Based on the number of fights he has pulled out of in recent years, I'm sure that should Haye have pulled out of this one due to injury, he wouldn't have been paid at all. I'd imagine he may even lose money. This would explain Haye trying to knock of Bellews head in round 1.  

 

It begs the question, how long was he carrying this injury for? He looked so rusty for the first couple of rounds that it makes me wonder whether he even sparred at all during training because of this injury. His timing was shocking too.

 

A win is a win though and Bellew is now a man in demand and he has all the power. I think based on his recent wins then he deserves either a unification fight at cruiserweight or the chance at the winner of Fury vs Parker or Wilder. As I've said, I don't rate Bellews boxing ability but he's certainly a better boxer than Wilder. He's wild by name and wild by nature. The sooner someone takes that belt off him, the better.

[Manwell Pablo]

9 minutes ago, shade said:

haye walked in to that fight with an injured achilles, when you watch the fight back you can see him almost dragging from the 1st round, his wild swings were because he couldn't transfer his weight effectively, not because he had suddeny become incredibly slow and sloppy.

 

What's he supposed to do though at the ridiculously late stage in the day, really, fcked if he is fcked if he isn't scenario for him. Imagine the up roar if sick note cancels another fight........you can perhaps argue if he hadn't pulled out of so many fights in his career he may of got the benefit of the doubt but who is to say they were also not genuine I guess......he had little choice other to go in there and hope for the best and tbf he was winning the fight before the real damage occurred in the sixth....just one of those things. He should just take his money admit he is an utter bionic man these days and hang the gloves up now, but he wont. 

 

 

18 minutes ago, Kendal Fox said:

Just my opinion and I've always felt this way about Haye, not some revisionist view at all. Even in his prime years he was never very active - He only fought 4 times in 3 years between 2009 - 2012 for instance. I've just never been convinced that he's an elite fighter.

 

As for Lewis, he avenged both of his losses and unified the heavyweight division - a very rare feat indeed. Also have to disagree with you about Sven Ottke - he never fought outside of Germany and was involved in some very controversial hometown decisions. Some of those were against guys that Calzaghe had already beaten if I remember correctly. I still think a prime Kessler was a better scalp than Ottke. Again, just my opinion.

Fair enough, reasoned points, can't say Haye wasn't a top Cruiser weight myself but there we are.

 

Indeed but Rahman and McCall though  it is a shame really his CV is really that of one of the all time greats otherwise. And don't get me wrong I think Calazaghe would of gone to Germany and knocked him out if they had fought just making the point you can question most fighters records in one way or another. You could even claim he dodged Froch I guess.