Zingari Posted 10 July 2011 Share Posted 10 July 2011 It's not like we'll ever truly discover the absolute facts of everything. But if you read up on things like evolution and the big bang etc (even just on Wiki) then they begin to make a little more sense. Still crazy and humongous of course, but fascinating nonetheless. When you think of life just sprouting up from nowhere or planets just coming together through dust and rocks it all seems nonsensical, but when it's pieced together in a properly researched theory by a bunch of geniuses it helps. This is all crap anyway, solipsism is the only true reasoning behind the cosmos. I created you all. couldn't you have created me a bit richer and better looking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertine Posted 10 July 2011 Share Posted 10 July 2011 couldn't you have created me a bit richer and better looking You're beautiful in your own way. A perverse and baffling way, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Phil Posted 10 July 2011 Share Posted 10 July 2011 Here's a decently produced documentary on 4oD.: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/ufos-the-secret-evidence Here's one about evolution: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-genius-of-charles-darwin/4od And here's one from the Beeb about mother earth etc: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Earth-Story-DVD/dp/B000FS9SGE http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/history_of_the_earth There really are no indisputable theories about the first microbe and where it came from. The conversation goes into fantasy world and people's religious beliefs begin to cloud the conversation with make-believe rather evidence and theories at least based on scientific study. The youtube clip is interesting, and the gentleman claiming to work in Area 51 is intriguing. As someone who's been fascinated by the subject since I was about 8, and read more books on it than I have hot dinners, I am still sceptical but open to the thought that it is a possibility. There is also a lot of evidence to suggest life started in alkaline deep sea vents, and did not arrive on a meteor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zingari Posted 10 July 2011 Share Posted 10 July 2011 a lot of people say that life begins at 40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sphericalfox Posted 10 July 2011 Share Posted 10 July 2011 There is also a lot of evidence to suggest life started in alkaline deep sea vents, and did not arrive on a meteor. That is true. Scientists suggest that in fact numerous bodies came together to create Earth, and thus the bacteria were part and parcel as the Earth transformed from fiery molten ball of hell-death, to gaseous acid-rained ball of death. I believe if I remember correctly the BBC doc discusses this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Phil Posted 10 July 2011 Share Posted 10 July 2011 That is true. Scientists suggest that in fact numerous bodies came together to create Earth, and thus the bacteria were part and parcel as the Earth transformed from fiery molten ball of hell-death, to gaseous acid-rained ball of death. I believe if I remember correctly the BBC doc discusses this. Yeah, if you're interested Life ascending: the ten great inventions of evolution by Nick Lane has a great first couple of chapters on how life may have arisen, you can pick it up pretty cheap on amazon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samilktray Posted 10 July 2011 Share Posted 10 July 2011 That DMT is crazy. Watched a few video on that in the last few weeks. Be lying If I said I fully understood it though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomassi Posted 10 July 2011 Share Posted 10 July 2011 People like Richard Dawkins and the BBC are known to provide a one-sided argument and portray the other side of the argument as non-sensical and brainwashed... for this I do not think is fair and quite arrogant... ...however, I do not agree with the abuse Richard Dawkins recieved from a few people that he would ''burn in hell'' and wanting a ''slow death'' cast upon him, as one of the ten commandments from the Christian faith says Love thy neighbour... this is clearly not love... ...but also, I am aware that scientific theories are changing all the time... scientists thought the earth was flat 2,000 years ago, and to wash hands properly in still water... they even said earth was sat on a large animal! I was abseiling in a cave in New Zealand last Decemeber the tour guide said the cave was 15,000,000 years old. I asked how did he know and he said he doesnt, but the 'geniuses' who told him said the previous year it was 35,000,000 years old! Age techniques are known to be almost certainly accurate, but I question the accuracy if its not proved with 100%. Its interesting to see that the Bible states ''The earth is a Sphere'', ''Incalculable number of stars'', ''Free Float of Earth in Space'', ''Creation made of invisible elements'', ''Each star is different'', ''Light moves'', ''Air has weight'', ''Wind blows in cyclones'', ''Blood is the source of life and health'', Ocean floor contains deep valleys and mountains'', ''Ocean contains springs'', ''when dealing with disease hands should be washed under running water'', a supposed book written by ''primitives'' yet all the above quotes have been proven correct by science itself... now if people want to believe in that faith, that really ought to be respected, just as they respect science... ...so if i dont agree with evolution or the big bang theory because it doesn't make sense to me, does that make me brain washed or just completely thick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherharboroughfox Posted 10 July 2011 Share Posted 10 July 2011 That Moscow circular disc is ****ing cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sphericalfox Posted 10 July 2011 Share Posted 10 July 2011 People like Richard Dawkins and the BBC are known to provide a one-sided argument and portray the other side of the argument as non-sensical and brainwashed... for this I do not think is fair and quite arrogant... ...however, I do not agree with the abuse Richard Dawkins recieved from a few people that he would ''burn in hell'' and wanting a ''slow death'' cast upon him, as one of the ten commandments from the Christian faith says Love thy neighbour... this is clearly not love... ...but also, I am aware that scientific theories are changing all the time... scientists thought the earth was flat 2,000 years ago, and to wash hands properly in still water... they even said earth was sat on a large animal! I was abseiling in a cave in New Zealand last Decemeber the tour guide said the cave was 15,000,000 years old. I asked how did he know and he said he doesnt, but the 'geniuses' who told him said the previous year it was 35,000,000 years old! Age techniques are known to be almost certainly accurate, but I question the accuracy if its not proved with 100%. Its interesting to see that the Bible states ''The earth is a Sphere'', ''Incalculable number of stars'', ''Free Float of Earth in Space'', ''Creation made of invisible elements'', ''Each star is different'', ''Light moves'', ''Air has weight'', ''Wind blows in cyclones'', ''Blood is the source of life and health'', Ocean floor contains deep valleys and mountains'', ''Ocean contains springs'', ''when dealing with disease hands should be washed under running water'', a supposed book written by ''primitives'' yet all the above quotes have been proven correct by science itself... now if people want to believe in that faith, that really ought to be respected, just as they respect science... ...so if i dont agree with evolution or the big bang theory because it doesn't make sense to me, does that make me brain washed or just completely thick? Well, if you made it clear you were coming from a Christian perspective on the conversation then it wouldn't surprise me that you might take offence to the topic based on science, if the bible is to be taken in a literal sense. And before the conversation steers tremendously wide of the actual topic (ie. Aliens), i consider myself to understand the bible to be text (say similar to wikipedia) where over the years people with different belief systems, based in widely varied societies, built a collective of stories, full of similes and metaphors, and rich fables to teach morality tales to the believers/followers of Christianity. To accuse the BBC of blatant subjectivity on a science documentary, and perhaps suggest that it is some sort of Atheist propaganda is naive. The Christian populace and leaders of such have been manipulating 'the word' so they a.) could remain in power b.) gain riches from those who were their subjects. No different to any religion in fact. You can disagree with me, but as a Catholic, I am well aware of the historical propaganda of the those within it's reach and beyond. Now not all Christian leaders have been so callous and greedy, there have been some excellent and intelligent leaders and scholars, who used science to base their theories on. However, subsequent leaders within the religion felt that it took element of control away from them, so scratched these learnings from history. The exact same occurred in the Muslim world to a further degree. If you don't agree with evolution, and that those carbon tested bones, of giant lizards did in fact roam with Adam and Eve, then that's up to you. That genetics is a fabrication of the devil, and sharing genomes with animals that might be considered unholy, is entirely up to you. You hold your beliefs and I hold mine. I assume that you therefore don't believe in life outside of Earth? Would you change your view should bacteria be found say on the Moon or Mars? I'm interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collymore Posted 10 July 2011 Share Posted 10 July 2011 NASA see Aliens all the time and talk about them. Firstly in 1989 Some amateur radio enthusiast picked this up. NASA first denied it and then later had to confirm it! http://www.ken-welch.com/Reports/Aliens.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted 10 July 2011 Share Posted 10 July 2011 One could argue that it is more rational to believe in the existence of aliens than it is to believe in the existence of a God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 10 July 2011 Share Posted 10 July 2011 ...so if i dont agree with evolution or the big bang theory because it doesn't make sense to me, does that make me brain washed or just completely thick? Your entitled to your opinion mate. The chances are that the people saying that evolution is the only possibility are only repeating what they've been told, they haven't done any research on the subject them selves. Imo evolution is the most likely theory but I keep an open mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomassi Posted 10 July 2011 Share Posted 10 July 2011 Well, if you made it clear you were coming from a Christian perspective on the conversation then it wouldn't surprise me that you might take offence to the topic based on science, if the bible is to be taken in a literal sense. And before the conversation steers tremendously wide of the actual topic (ie. Aliens), i consider myself to understand the bible to be text (say similar to wikipedia) where over the years people with different belief systems, based in widely varied societies, built a collective of stories, full of similes and metaphors, and rich fables to teach morality tales to the believers/followers of Christianity. To accuse the BBC of blatant subjectivity on a science documentary, and perhaps suggest that it is some sort of Atheist propaganda is naive. The Christian populace and leaders of such have been manipulating 'the word' so they a.) could remain in power b.) gain riches from those who were their subjects. No different to any religion in fact. You can disagree with me, but as a Catholic, I am well aware of the historical propaganda of the those within it's reach and beyond. Now not all Christian leaders have been so callous and greedy, there have been some excellent and intelligent leaders and scholars, who used science to base their theories on. However, subsequent leaders within the religion felt that it took element of control away from them, so scratched these learnings from history. The exact same occurred in the Muslim world to a further degree. If you don't agree with evolution, and that those carbon tested bones, of giant lizards did in fact roam with Adam and Eve, then that's up to you. That genetics is a fabrication of the devil, and sharing genomes with animals that might be considered unholy, is entirely up to you. You hold your beliefs and I hold mine. I assume that you therefore don't believe in life outside of Earth? Would you change your view should bacteria be found say on the Moon or Mars? I'm interested. This is from my perspective, not a christian perspective, from where Ive evaluated everything ive been taught and seen for myself. I havent taken offence or posted in any sort of aggressive manner, I have just expressed an opinion which is allowed due to free will of man! Ive been brought up in a non-christian way, taught about evolution all through the stages of my education and my favourite subject in school was actually religious education where i studied all the religions etc, so i have been given all sides... My thoughts on the BBC is just that, one sided. Thats my opinion that it doesnt give a fair argument. There was a program recently on assisted dieing, supposedly giving both sides of the equation, but all it showed was pro-assisted suicide and people going to that swiss clinic to die... if you watched it you will know what I mean. Naive, i think not, equal argument, i think not also... but thats another matter altogether Now these Christian branches that, as you say twist the word for monetary gain, power etc, do you see that in the true sense of being a christian, i think not. I see 'real' Christians as being very humble and charitable people, you will never meet a nasty 'real' christian! I was probably hasty in saying this theory and that theory was absurd, a little judgemental on my side and i put my hands up to that, but I think all sides of the debate needs to be considered in its entirety to be considered a worthy debate, rather than an ''i know best because of this idea''... facts speak for themselves, theories are fantasies which could prove correct... Whatever people believe i will fully respect my views on life found on mars or the moon... find out and i'll let you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charl91 Posted 10 July 2011 Share Posted 10 July 2011 Scientific theories change all the time, but thats why I personally prefer science over religion. Religion says that we do know everything (that it was created by God) while Science admits that we don't know most things, but strive to work those things out. Many theories do sound stupid untill there's sound proof; we probably think the same about aliens as people used to think about the world being round, before it was proven. While the theory is most likely wrong, it's the closest we have which has scientific evidence to back it up, untill we discover some new evidence which allows new theories to be created. However, I think It would be naive to think that we could ever possibly begin to comprehend the big bang/start of life in the universe. It might sound unfeasible at the moment, but that's because we can only base it in the context of the science we know. Aliens probably are out there, though not in the form of the traditional "green man". The chances of them being anywhere near us in the universe would also be pretty slim. As for Life on Mars? Good television series! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACF Posted 11 July 2011 Author Share Posted 11 July 2011 That Moscow circular disc is ****ing cool! That is a very educated reply, I'm glad you've contributed to this thread. Softy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 11 July 2011 Share Posted 11 July 2011 Where's El Empty when you need him. Being anally problem somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherharboroughfox Posted 11 July 2011 Share Posted 11 July 2011 That is a very educated reply, I'm glad you've contributed to this thread. Softy. fvck you Well you did ask for my thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 11 July 2011 Share Posted 11 July 2011 Hey everyone, I've been a long time lurker but this topic interested me so much that I signed up to contribute. Hopefully I'll be able to contribute on the football part of the forum too soon. As to the question of extraterrestrial life...well, there's two main points. The first is the sheer amount of stars in the universe. There are approximately 150 billion galaxies in the OBSERVABLE universe (that part of it that isn't observable is a discussion for another time), each of which contains on average 100 billion stars. That adds up to a LOT of stars, many of which are like our own Sun. Now, a few decades ago a guy named Frank Drake came up with a mathematical formula called the Drake Equation, where he tried to guess the number of alien civilisations out there. The basic idea was that with so many stars out there, it would only take one in a million to be like our Sun, then one in a million of those to have planets, and one in a million of those to have planets at the right distance from the Sun to nurture life, and one in a million to actually develop life...you get the idea. The numbers he used said that there would be at least 10 alien civilisations in our corner of the galaxy alone. However, because we had no idea of knowing how common or how rare planets like Earth were in the Universe, the numbers Drake was using were entirely arbitrary - they were bullshit, in other words. However, now we are discovering many, many planets outside our Solar System and beginning to learn that planets like our own are actually quite commonplace, it turns out that the figures Drake used were not too far from the truth. To sum up, with so many stars out there, the odds are that some of the planets that orbit them do have life, even intelligent life, inhabiting them. Then of course, the question (and the second point) is...why haven't they contacted us? And that comes down to a guy called Enrico Fermi, who came up with what's called the Fermi Paradox to give reasons why an alien civilisation hasn't contacted us yet. If you check out the wiki page, you can see that there are a variety of reasons why there may be alien civilisations out there, but we haven't heard from them. By far the biggest obstacle is distance - the fact that it takes light (and every other form of electromagnetic radiation), the fastest thing in the universe, 4 years just to get to our nearest star, coupled with our (comparatively) short lives, makes communicating a very, very longwinded business. The only practical solution is for an alien civilisation (or our own) to develop faster-than-light travel or communication. However, even though this could be possible (there are a few theoretical ideas that could work) humans are nowhere near making this practical, and it leads to new issues of its own (see the Fermi Paradox wiki page). So...in all, my view: it is really, really likely there are multiple alien civilisations out there, but until we master FTL travel or communication, it's extremely unlikely we're going to contact them or vice versa. Even if and when we do, it might still not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 12 July 2011 Share Posted 12 July 2011 Actually, disregard all that I said above: we all know that the Earth and Universe were created by Martin O'Neill, aka God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzFox Posted 12 July 2011 Share Posted 12 July 2011 After watching this, I'm convinced to an extent there is something out there. Your thoughts? Nice creepy drone on that video. As creepy drones go, that was a good one. Also loved this from the gormless newsreader at 3'50" - "What was that UFO? What was it doing over jerusalem? And, y'know, is he back??" lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzFox Posted 12 July 2011 Share Posted 12 July 2011 That Moscow circular disc is ****ing cool! "optical effect" according to the experts. Caused by weather fronts and a setting sun. Shame really...looked very Independence Day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellend Sebastian Posted 12 July 2011 Share Posted 12 July 2011 I think they've already been here, walked among us, watched 'Michael Mcintyre's Comedy Roadshow', seen that it costs about £35 to go to Alton Towers, noted that the News of the World had the biggest circulation of any British 'news'paper and decided that it's not for them and f***ed off again. You travel all those light years to come here. The little aliens all going 'are we there yet?' over and over again, your wife not talking to you because she said you should turn left at Jupiter and you ignored her, asteroid scratched the paintwork and all that, and then you get here and they want to take nearly thirty notes off you to watch second tier football and you can't even stand up to do it. Just imagine the disappointment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACF Posted 13 July 2011 Author Share Posted 13 July 2011 I think they've already been here, walked among us, watched 'Michael Mcintyre's Comedy Roadshow', seen that it costs about £35 to go to Alton Towers, noted that the News of the World had the biggest circulation of any British 'news'paper and decided that it's not for them and f***ed off again. You travel all those light years to come here. The little aliens all going 'are we there yet?' over and over again, your wife not talking to you because she said you should turn left at Jupiter and you ignored her, asteroid scratched the paintwork and all that, and then you get here and they want to take nearly thirty notes off you to watch second tier football and you can't even stand up to do it. Just imagine the disappointment This is fantastic (': Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 13 July 2011 Share Posted 13 July 2011 :laugh: Very good bellend. It's almost certain that there is alien life out there - although 90% of the universe "doesn't exist" (it's nothingness), it's so large that the 10% of somethingness will contain a near infinate amount of planets & stars, meaning the odds of one of those planets having the conditions favourable to life are very good. We talk about proof of water to determine whether a planet is now, or was capable of supporting life but that's hardly the case - depending on the physiology of the aliens the minimum needed is a food source from which to extract energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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