If Rooney was fit............

[davieG]

................and it was the weight of expectation for his poor displays does this mean he's not the World class player many bleat on about.

Surely someone rated as World Class should rise to the occasion?

England manager Roy Hodgson insists lack of fitness was not behind Wayne Rooney's poor display in the Euro 2012 quarter-final defeat to Italy in Kiev.

Hodgson insists statistics backed up his claims that Rooney was in good shape - but admitted the weight of expectation on England's most gifted attacking talent may have been too great.

Rooney returned from a two game ban to score England's winner against Ukraine, only to deliver a below par performance in the quarter-final as Italy won 4-2 on penalties after a goalless 120 minutes.

Hodgson said: "We haven't noticed any problems with Wayne's fitness levels. We've monitored it in training and he's looked very fit."

He added: "In the first game against Ukraine he didn't show any particular signs of lacking fitness. He played 120 minutes [against Italy].

"What you might be saying is that you are a bit disappointed with his performance and maybe thought he could have played better."

Rooney was with England at their pre-Euro 2012 training camp in Krakow and travelled to the early group games in Donetsk and Kiev.

Rooney, 26, looked sluggish and out of touch in the game against Italy, but Hodgson defended him, saying: "His running stats in the training sessions and in the game were actually very good.

"Of course we put a lot of expectations on him. When he missed the first two games there was a suggestion we all believed that all we need to do is get to the third game and Wayne Rooney will win us the championship. That was maybe too much to ask of him. He certainly tried very hard.

"He didn't have his best game - I'm sure he will admit that.

"That could be down to a number of factors but I don't think the fitness itself was a particular factor."

[foxfanazer]

Hes not world class imo. Can destroy some prem teams and occasionally score against the bigger teams but very rarely turns up in the big games and never in international tournaments. Apparently we have to play him though, that sends out a bad message imo

[Fox92]

Personally, I never thought he was 'World Class' anyway. Doesn't provide at International level, although 29 in 76 doesn't look that bad on paper. The expectation on him by the media does my head in though. 'Oh if England are too go far, Rooney is key' etc.

It also annoys me how one player (ie; Green) makes a mistake and isn't played again (I know he won't get infront of Hart anyway), but Rooney hasn't done anything since Euro 2004 and we 'have to pick him'.

[leicesterisme]

Honestly, I would not start him for England, when he plays we seem to rely on him to do everything. Think we are a much better side without him.

[Captain...]

If Rooney had put that overhead kick away, it would all be so different, and that is why he will always get picked because he can do something like that.

I think the problem that he and Young faced was they were not entirely sure what they were supposed to be doing in the team, Cappello had created this regimented strict way of playing and I think that still showed and Hodgson had little time to break that and get them playing how he wanted them too, Rooney and Young are at their best for United when floating around taking up dangerous positions and not being restricted by having to play up front or left wing.

[davieG]

If Rooney had put that overhead kick away, it would all be so different, and that is why he will always get picked because he can do something like that.

I think the problem that he and Young faced was they were not entirely sure what they were supposed to be doing in the team, Cappello had created this regimented strict way of playing and I think that still showed and Hodgson had little time to break that and get them playing how he wanted them too, Rooney and Young are at their best for United when floating around taking up dangerous positions and not being restricted by having to play up front or left wing.

In which case Hodgson isn't good enough, saying there wasn't time to integrate two experienced, including one World Class player into a particular formation is a flimsy excuse. Teams change formations all the while and international players, especially established, experienced ones have to cope with those changes as well as changes in management.

Some players excel on the international stage and some, no matter how good they are at club level never manage it, Rooney's looking like the later every game he plays.

As for the overhead kick it may have altered the result and it may have impressed a ready to go overboard media but it still wouldn't have disguised his, yet again overall poor performances

[Out Foxed]

rooney holds us back

[Captain...]

In which case Hodgson isn't good enough, saying there wasn't time to integrate two experienced, including one World Class player into a particular formation is a flimsy excuse. Teams change formations all the while and international players, especially established, experienced ones have to cope with those changes as well as changes in management.

Some players excel on the international stage and some, no matter how good they are at club level never manage it, Rooney's looking like the later every game he plays.

As for the overhead kick it may have altered the result and it may have impressed a ready to go overboard media but it still wouldn't have disguised his, yet again overall poor performances

I don't think it is necessarily that Hodgson wasn't good enough, but he had to prepare 2 teams in a short amount of time, one with Rooney and one without, due to Rooney's indiscipline in a meaningless game.

He got the team without Rooney right, more or less, but I think he believed the hype to think that Rooney was that good he could just pick him and he would score (which he did) but you know what I mean.

Hodgson now needs to find a way to incorporate a talent like Rooney (and Young) into an otherwise mercurial team. Even the players we have missing, Barry, Wilshire etc they are not flair players, Johnson, Walcott, Young and Rooney have the talent to form a formidable attack, Hodgson just needs to work out how to get the best out of them.

[Mack]

He might not have to pay for sex?

[foxfanazer]

He might not have to pay for sex?

[Charl91]

I don't think Rooney is World Class. He's far too inconsistent.

[Trav Le Bleu]

As I said elsewhere, he's the new John Barnes. Great for his club, crap for his country.

[foxfanazer]

His first touch was laughable against Italy and every time Carroll flicked the ball on he ran the opposite way. Saying all this he will probably score 30+ for man yoo next season

[Jaspa]

Hes not world class imo. Can destroy some prem teams and occasionally score against the bigger teams but very rarely turns up in the big games and never in international tournaments. Apparently we have to play him though, that sends out a bad message imo

I think it sends out a worse message to keep him in

The hundreds of promising youths up and down the country looking up to see somebody fail, yet again

But still gets a place in the team, and others miss out for it

We played better without him anyway

I just hope Roy has got the balls

.

[foxfanazer]

I think it sends out a worse message to keep him in

The hundreds of promising youths up and down the country looking up to see somebody fail, yet again

But still gets a place in the team, and others miss out for it

We played better without him anyway

I just hope Roy has got the balls

.

The last line of my post is the same as the first in yours don't think any England manager is going to have the balls to drop our "star man"

[Guest MattP]

....we'd probably have gone out in the groups.

[Corky]

No doubt he's a fine player and probably, on form, our best, but we've got to look past the "he has to be in whatever" notion that currently persists.

Out of form he's no more effective than a lesser name, he was very ineffective in the two games (I know he scored)- Welbeck should've been kept on against Italy.

[foxes2011]

Rooney was fit, but not match fit, two completly different things he wasnt sharp and needed game time.

[davieG]

Rooney was fit, but not match fit, two completly different things he wasnt sharp and needed game time.

In which case Hodgson was wrong then, if he was unable to see that he wasn't match fit and to include him, vital games are not the place to get players match fit

[MooseBreath]

He had an attempted header in each game where he could barely get his feet off the ground. Don't know what caused it, but it certainly wasn't a lack of fitness because anyone who can walk can do a little jump. The chance he had where he went clean through from inside Ukraine's half, had two yards on the defender but was caught up and tackled before he reached their box was equally disturbing. Against Italy he tracked Pirlo for the first 20 minutes before appearing to simply give up.

None of these are anything to do with ability and shouldn't really be anything to do with fitness. The fitness in our squad in general was appalling. Italy did more running than we did but we were knackered after an hour. Something went badly wrong there. But with Rooney I honestly think he just does not care about playing for England at all. His fame and 'success' has made him arrogant beyond belief. He is totally unrecognisable from the wonderkid who arrived with such magnificent brilliance at Euro 2004. Back then he looked keen on playing, now he looks like he just wants to get the game lost and go home.

Drop him from the squad altogether. See if he comes back fighting. If not, he's done. We have no room for passengers.

[Tielemans63]

Bar 2004 when he was a teenager and he played brilliantly, he's been awful in every international tournament he's played in.

The hallmark of a great player is surely that he can deal with the pressure and expectation? Rooney is a very good footballer but certainly not a great player IMHO.

[Tielemans63]

Also, he was banned not injured and therefore should hav kept himself at peak fitness. And, if Roy is now saying WR wasn't fit then why the **** would you play him? Roy's made himself look a bit of a twat there in my opinion.

[davieG]

Also, he was banned not injured and therefore should hav kept himself at peak fitness. And, if Roy is now saying WR wasn't fit then why the **** would you play him? Roy's made himself look a bit of a twat there in my opinion.

Hodgson saying fitness was not a problem and that it was more likely the weight of expectation on him.

[Tielemans63]

Hodgson saying fitness was not a problem and that it was more likely the weight of expectation on him.

I've made myself look a twat then by not reading your original post! However, I would still argue that he wasn't fully fit - he was maybe 85% fit. I think Hodgson's argument that he was fit because he played for 120 minutes is a non-argument because he didn't do anything for at least 110 of those. He played 120 mins cuz Hodgson didn't take him off. I play 5-a-side for 120 mins on a Thursday night and that certainly does not mean I'm fit!

I would also reiterate my first point - great players live up to expectation - that's surely how you differentiate them from the 'very good' players?

[AyewJoking]

I thought there was supposed to be less expectation and pressure than ever on England and the players?

Rooney is Man Utd's best player, he is often the difference when it comes to them winning games, why cant he do it for England?

I agree with those calling for him to be dropped, just to see if we get a positive reaction from him. Of course, England will pander without him, its almost as if the other players want Rooney in the team to shoulder all the expectation.

You cant argue he is a great talent but obviously he isnt the same when it comes to international football.