Animal rights

[OzFox]

Are those pig baskets just for transportation or are they kept in them all the time ?

I don't know about these baskets, but pigs are often confined indoors in really small steel and concrete pens so that they can barely move. That way they get fatter quicker. When they give birth, they're confined in even smaller pens. If you're a male piglet, you get your tackle sliced off and your teeth clipped.

If you saw it with your own eyes, you'd probably never eat another bacon sarnie.

Edited 5 August 2012 by OzFox

[OzFox]

You killed the Dodo

F**k Tha Pigeons

Mother nature really does have a lot to answer for

[OzFox]

But tbf, bacon is delicious.

True. One of my brothers went veggie years ago. He says the only thing he really misses is bacon

[ozleicester]

Ive not had a chance to read the responses as yet, i will do and reply soon.

I did notice that someone asked if the treatment of pigs in cages was common, sadly it is... see this page for more info (ive not read it all.. but the images are pretty indicitive.

http://www.think-differently-about-sheep.com/Animal-rights-Pigs.htm

[Rincewind]

You call it progress, I call it greed and stupidity. The buffalo were slaughtered for short term profit, as were most fur bearing animals.

Check out what they did to the american passenger pigeon. Used to be flocks miles long. They estimate there were billions before white settlers turned up and started killing them, millions at a time. Do you think they kept a few around for future generations? Did they fvck. Killed every last one.

I never meant progress in a good way but like you said it was for greed and profit. The settlers were more powerful than the natives and would not look into the long term future. Here was a new land that nobody had claimed. The native Indian believed that the land belonged to everyone not individuals. When younger I always supported them in games.

Read Bury My Heart at wounded knee. It's the story of the Native Americans struggle against the settlers and how they were given the worst land as settlements.

Custer is regarded as a hero. He raided a small village killing women and children then was surprised all the Indians joined forces. All the 'American heroes helped to destroy the animals and the indiginous population of America.

That is what makes me a little biased against America.

Edited 5 August 2012 by Nightguard

[OzFox]

I never meant progress in a good way but like you said it was for greed and profit. The settlers were more powerful than the natives and would not look into the long term future. Here was a new land that nobody had claimed. The native Indian believed that the land belonged to everyone not individuals. When younger I always supported them in games.

Read Bury My Heart at wounded knee. It's the story of the Native Americans struggle against the settlers and how they were given the worst land as settlements.

Custer is regarded as a hero. He raided a small village killing women and children then was surprised all the Indians joined forces. All the 'American heroes helped to destroy the animals and the indiginous population of America.

That is what makes me a little biased against America.

Yeah I've read it. Very good I went to Wounded knee years ago. Just a patch of ground by a ditch, and and a scruffy sign full of bullet holes. I got the impression the Yanks weren't keen to publicise what happened there

There's a good article in national geographic this month about the Sioux and Wounded Knee

[fleckneymike]

Hello all.

Are we any closer on a consensus regarding whether dairy farming would still be permitted? I only ask as dairy farming raises another difficult ethical question as an animals survival relies solely on it's gender. I would assume that if you view keeping livestock in order to eat them as inhumane you would also view keeping a dairy herd as also inhumane.

Maintaing the dairy population would however solve the problem of supplying meat for the pet industry as well as pharmaceuticals/cosmetics and the leather trade but obviously at some cost to the original intent of stopping keeping livestock based on ethical grounds.

[ozleicester]

If you don't see the difference between dropping an animal off a bridge in a bag and quickly slaughtering it then I'm afraid there's little point in debating it.

As for the part in bold, you've added that to make the killing sound somehow crueler, but the fact is, if the animal is already dead then there's nothing you can do to it that's inhumane.

There is a difference, no question, my point is that its pretty hypocritical to sit around talking about protecting puppies and saving the whale, whilst gnawing on the leg of an animal.

Out of interest, ask anyone... is it worse to be murdered..or murdered, cut up and eaten. Im pretty sure what people will say.

Are those pig baskets just for transportation or are they kept in them all the time ?

The crates are out of the ordinary, however "gestation Stalls" are the standard.. get all your pig cruelty needs here... http://www.doublel.c...winecrates.html

Mind you... does it matter if its for minutes, hours or days... its simply wrong

True. One of my brothers went veggie years ago. He says the only thing he really misses is bacon

Completely agree, Bacon is without doubt something i miss enormously and when i smell some cooking, my first reaction is certainly Pavlovian... but, my second reaction is that i am smelling the carcass of a once innocent living creature, who has been abused and killed ...which tends to end the simplistic drooling that i have been conditioned to have.

Hello all.

Are we any closer on a consensus regarding whether dairy farming would still be permitted? I only ask as dairy farming raises another difficult ethical question as an animals survival relies solely on it's gender. I would assume that if you view keeping livestock in order to eat them as inhumane you would also view keeping a dairy herd as also inhumane.

Maintaing the dairy population would however solve the problem of supplying meat for the pet industry as well as pharmaceuticals/cosmetics and the leather trade but obviously at some cost to the original intent of stopping keeping livestock based on ethical grounds.

Im pretty sure we dont have much consensus on anything in this thread... but as i mentioned earlier, i would be opposed to dairy farming.

We impregnate cows, take their calves away after a day or two just to ensure that the cow is lactating, that, in my opinion, is cruel and unnecessary.

We can produce a meat alternative for the pet industry.

Edited 6 August 2012 by ozleicester

[ozleicester]

I would like to repose my question do to a lack of response... all are welcome to offer an opinion.

What makes something acceptable to be killed and eaten?

Is it that we farm it?

Is it the creatures intellect?

Is it its number? (eg whales are 'supposedly" endangered so we cant eat it... but too many deers, so we can)

or is it that we just dont even think about what we put in our mouths?

[ozleicester]

No, and that's a ridiculous comparison. People don't eat people because cannibalism is rarely good for the survival, eating other animals as part of the natural diet however is.

oops sorry missed this comment... how is cannibalism not good for survival?

We have 7 billion people on the planet and that is growing rapidly, so we have an abundance of possible food.

We are able to treat and cook the meat in a million different ways (and apparently it tastes like pork) so its certainly edible.

I assume it is at least as nutritious as most other meats (which isnt actually that good but nevertheless).

Im afraid the only reason i can put on why people wont eat people... is simple conditioning, the brainwashed masses have been told that its not acceptable and, like a well cooked bacon sandwich they gobble the story down without a thought.

[SOCCERROO FOX]

oops sorry missed this comment... how is cannibalism not good for survival?

We have 7 billion people on the planet and that is growing rapidly, so we have an abundance of possible food.

We are able to treat and cook the meat in a million different ways (and apparently it tastes like pork) so its certainly edible.

I assume it is at least as nutritious as most other meats (which isnt actually that good but nevertheless).

Im afraid the only reason i can put on why people wont eat people... is simple conditioning, the brainwashed masses have been told that its not acceptable and, like a well cooked bacon sandwich they gobble the story down without a thought.

Haha not been bothered to read this whole thread but i can't think of any species of animals that eat there own. Does that mean all other species have been "brainwashed"???

That saying if you go down on ya missus is that counted as cannibilism?

[Jaspa]

Haha not been bothered to read this whole thread but i can't think of any species of animals that eat there own. Does that mean all other species have been "brainwashed"???

That saying if you go down on ya missus is that counted as cannibilism?

Only if its her time of the month

[SOCCERROO FOX]

Only if its her time of the month

mmmmmm Dolmio Grin!

[Rincewind]

There are species that eat their own. Male lions will kill and eat cups that belong to another male to remain the dominant male. Some animals will eat their young if it means that they will survive. If there is a meal at the end of it a lot of wild anymals and insects will. Survival of the fittest is in all species genes.

[The Doctor]

oops sorry missed this comment... how is cannibalism not good for survival?

We have 7 billion people on the planet and that is growing rapidly, so we have an abundance of possible food.

We are able to treat and cook the meat in a million different ways (and apparently it tastes like pork) so its certainly edible.

I assume it is at least as nutritious as most other meats (which isnt actually that good but nevertheless).

Im afraid the only reason i can put on why people wont eat people... is simple conditioning, the brainwashed masses have been told that its not acceptable and, like a well cooked bacon sandwich they gobble the story down without a thought.

It's far from nutritious - you'll find animals only eat humans out of either - mistaken identity (e.g. Shark attacks), opportunism or an inability to hunt their usual prey (e.g. too old).

That second bit sounds like el empty - the reason people won't eat people is the same as why lions don't tend to eat other lions - natural instinct for survival. You keep killing people off and eating them, you shrink the gene pool - and that's never a good thing, and why people who advocate eugenics are fucking mongoloids of the highest order.

[OzFox]

It's far from nutritious - you'll find animals only eat humans out of either - mistaken identity (e.g. Shark attacks), opportunism or an inability to hunt their usual prey (e.g. too old).

There must be some short sighted sharks off Perth at the moment.

That second bit sounds like el empty - the reason people won't eat people is the same as why lions don't tend to eat other lions - natural instinct for survival. You keep killing people off and eating them, you shrink the gene pool - and that's never a good thing, and why people who advocate eugenics are ****ing mongoloids of the highest order.

We've considerably shrunk the gene pool of a lot of animal species, or worse, made them extinct. That's not a good thing either.

[Bilo]

NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM

Edited 6 August 2012 by Bilo

[OzFox]

NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM

$785? Bit steep.

[marty78]

Mmmm.... Humans

[The Doctor]

There must be some short sighted sharks off Perth at the moment.

We've considerably shrunk the gene pool of a lot of animal species, or worse, made them extinct. That's not a good thing either.

Sharks see shit anyway - fat moving blob in the water, must be a seal and chows down. If that seal turns out to be some twat on a surfboard, then too bad for him.

Well, no - which is a reason to slow down on the amount we eat, not stop all together. Just as the lion is better off if it doesn't kill all the antelope, we could do with a reasonable amount of animals still alive - and lo and behold, the farms exist - problem solved.

[MooseBreath]

On a related note, why is meat so expensive these days? Chicken, for example, a near luxury. Yet eggs are still very cheap so it can't be due to transport costs as they come from and go to exactly the same place. I don't understand why little animals which are very cheap and easy to farm can be so expensive to buy.

Edited 6 August 2012 by MooseBreath

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

It's far from nutritious - you'll find animals only eat humans out of either - mistaken identity (e.g. Shark attacks), opportunism or an inability to hunt their usual prey (e.g. too old).

That second bit sounds like el empty - the reason people won't eat people is the same as why lions don't tend to eat other lions - natural instinct for survival. You keep killing people off and eating them, you shrink the gene pool - and that's never a good thing, and why people who advocate eugenics are ****ing mongoloids of the highest order.

I cant believe this, BUT, I actually AGREE with you entirely, which is slightly worrying.

[Captain...]

No one has answered my question... will you eat human meat... if not.. why not?... we are animals, its just meat

If it was a choice of life or death I would eat human meat, I would chop my toes of to start with fry them with a little jizz for flavour and eat them. Would I eat someone else, if they were already dead, yes. Could I take someone's life to stay alive? I don't know, but I have a strong survival instinct.

Also you fail to appreciate we have evolved to be able to eat meat, there is no design involved, in the past we were not capable of eating meat but we evolved to do so for evolutionary reasons, which normally stem from survival.

Would you/do you deny your children the right to have meat? If so do you not worry this might inhibit their growth and development? As adults the need to eat meat is less important but as children we are developing and growing so quickly that we need the right amounts of natural fats and proteins and everything else.

What about breast feeding? Do you agree with that? If so what about a woman who can breastfeed breastfeeding a baby whose mother couldn't?

I understand there are a lot of things wrong with the world and the way we treat animals, but we are what we are, and biologically we need meat.

[Zingari]

There used to be a strong belief that cannibalism drove you to insanity . I'm not sure if this is scientifically true or just a product of the movies , but most of us believed it years ago .

[ozleicester]

It's far from nutritious - you'll find animals only eat humans out of either - mistaken identity (e.g. Shark attacks), opportunism or an inability to hunt their usual prey (e.g. too old).

That second bit sounds like el empty - the reason people won't eat people is the same as why lions don't tend to eat other lions - natural instinct for survival. You keep killing people off and eating them, you shrink the gene pool - and that's never a good thing, and why people who advocate eugenics are ****ing mongoloids of the highest order.

The Nutrional value isnt particuarly any less than other forms of meat, and organs etc are quite nutritious.

If it was a choice of life or death I would eat human meat, I would chop my toes of to start with fry them with a little jizz for flavour and eat them. Would I eat someone else, if they were already dead, yes. Could I take someone's life to stay alive? I don't know, but I have a strong survival instinct.

im more interested if you will eat farmed human? can you explain why there is a difference?

For example, a pig is a more intellectually developed creature than a 3 year old child, so eating a 2 year old kid is less offensive than eating a pig?

Also you fail to appreciate we have evolved to be able to eat meat, there is no design involved, in the past we were not capable of eating meat but we evolved to do so for evolutionary reasons, which normally stem from survival.

We are vegetarian by design/creation/evolution, the meat eating IS NOT natural and was introduced to our diet only as a result of climatic change, if you are going to refer to being natural.. then Vegetarian in more natural...not to mention less cruel.

Would you/do you deny your children the right to have meat? If so do you not worry this might inhibit their growth and development? As adults the need to eat meat is less important but as children we are developing and growing so quickly that we need the right amounts of natural fats and proteins and everything else.

I would deny my child meat, as she will get a better more healthy life by avoiding carcass, which by the way ios the leading cause of bowel cancer. the appropriate amounts of fat and protien etc are available in vegetables.

What about breast feeding? Do you agree with that? If so what about a woman who can breastfeed breastfeeding a baby whose mother couldn't?

Non issue for me, breastfeeding is natural and harmless... however I wouldnt FORCE another woman to feed another child.. which is simialar to what we do with cows.. except the freky idea that we drink the milk of another animal??

I understand there are a lot of things wrong with the world and the way we treat animals, but we are what we are, and biologically we need meat.

No we do not need meat, it is bad for our health and is a leading cause of many caners and health issues... not to mention... we dont have the right to kill another creature!!

There used to be a strong belief that cannibalism drove you to insanity . I'm not sure if this is scientifically true or just a product of the movies , but most of us believed it years ago .

My understanding is that it is a myth, there are still a couple of tribes in the Papua New Guinea that prcatise cannibalism without insanity.