Thoughts on the state of British society?

[theacademic]

Due to the response from earlier research, I've just started phase 2 of a university research project looking at whether Britain is regressing to a less civil state with less social constraint and more casual aggression. The questionnaire is live at http://www.topfan.co.uk and as you’ll see, the questions are very current. One of them focuses on the current arguments surrounding the welfare system, for example. It should only take you a couple of minutes and thanks in advance.

[purpleronnie]

I may be wrong but I'm sure I read violent crime has been falling for years and murder is the lowest rate for 30 years.

But i think the majority of people always assume things are worsenow then the past but its not always the case.

[davieG]

The issue is complicated because there are now more people so although the numbers may be greater the % may not.

It may or may not have got worse over the last ten years and if there is a change it's probably marginal but it's certainly worse than it was 30, 40 years ago so I'm not sure how looking back 10 years is a decent measure and find it difficult to make a judgement on the 10 year difference.

"Bad behaviour also seems to have become more acceptable and in a strange way admired.

IMO

[Rincewind]

In the Victorian vioent crime was worse. The reason it did not seem so bad is because if a pauper was attacked it could be ignored. If a well to do bloke was attacked it was headlines and more paupers were attacked. If a wife was abused by the husband she'd accept it as a duty. Children were beaten as part of their growing up andeducation and no one cared about prostitutes disappearing. I hope we are a more caring nation but there is still the belief in some that the class system is good as long as they are not the ones at the bottom. The ones in the middle are sometimes the worst because they do not want to upset those above them and do not want those below them to have what they have.

http://quill2ink2paper.tumblr.com/

[purpleronnie]

Like I said the figures show in some cases its not as violent as the past, i always thought the 80's and early 90's were pretty bad, there seemed to be an air of violence around it felt very bleak, now it just seems a lot safer than back then.....but thats a personnel view, peoples views can also be dependant on what happend to them personally, if you were a victim of crime its going to sway your opinion rather than looking at things in more general terms.

[sphericalfox]

Society will always look at itself with a negative viewpoint when economical times are tough. The government and media will ride this wave of discontent into the ground to swerve around and inflate issues that are to their advantage by a mostly gullible public seeking to steer their frustration, anger, and unhappiness at a particular target or targets. History always repeats itself since communities existed, there's just more ways to manipulate and antagonise specific groups be it by class, religion, or others.

We'll hear nothing but the worst from government and media, as that what feeds their machine. It's the worst it's ever been! Yet the positive stories which perhaps are the majority are forgotten or are ignored. There's nothing wrong with a cynical viewpoint, but society is now so used to disillusionment for breakfast, lunch and dinner, there's no room for actually seeing the wood for the trees.

[davieG]

They may not be big crimes but things like vandalism, litter, graffiti, abusing old and vulnerable people are significantly worse than they where 40/50 years ago as I say whether that's because there are more people I don't know.

[Captain...]

Certainly the media like to promote social decline, if you read the mail and you would think that we live in a dangerous violent world full of rape, paedophilia and terrorism, but when I look out my window I don't see any of this. The current government certainly seems to like to promote this to give them justification for some of their less popular reforms.

[Rincewind]

Older people )yes I am getting on myself) say to me things like 'We used to leave our doors open for the milkman, they came in took the money and left change. But not now.' They seem to forget that the only valuables in the house was a solid oak radiogram built into a sideboard and a tin bath. There were no TV's stereos PC's playstations etc so there was nothing worth nicking. Post offices were a better target and even then the bike was not a great getaway vehcle.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

The best era for lowest crime was from the post Victorian era, through two World Wars, and into the early sixties, although serious crime did occur, but the levels dropped significantly. The wars themselves were partly responsible for this, taking many problematic young people into service, and making most of them responsible citizens.

The sixties was a decade of change, where young people tended to break away more from parental bonds, finding a new direction in the freedom of independence, and breaking all the taboos of the earlier decades. With this, also came a growing lack of respect for others, and a new evolution of selfish culture, bringing with it an increase in criminally minded people.

None of the above is black and white, but crime levels rose dramatically in the latter sixties, and throughout the seventies, and eighties.

Take it, or leave it, the above is only my view.

.

[Mack]

You can get the crime statistics and throw them straight in the bin, they are massaged and manipulated to suit the government of the time.

[MooseBreath]

Can't remember the last time I witnessed a crime or even really heard a first hand account of a crime from someone else, and I have never lived in especially great areas.

I think social decline, unrest, rising violence and all of that is something that sounds quite exciting when you're of a certain inclination or age (I know I would have been intrigued by it from the age of 15 to 17, for instance), so you tend to suffer what I suppose is a kind of confirmation bias when you're consuming media and in your mind you give a lot of weight to things that are largely insignificant. That and the fact that you probably spend a lot of time getting pissed where people do tend to behave like twats.

In reality, we're generally a pretty well behaved and well educated society and I don't see any evidence of that changing. There are occasionaly incidents such as the London riots which make you wonder but they are very much the minority.

[ithuriel]

Have seen a fair bit over the years, cars burned by kids, late night fights, drug user passing out down the street from me and i checked he was still breathing whilst an ambulance was called.

There are some real scumbags out there but there always has been.

[Captain...]

Can't remember the last time I witnessed a crime or even really heard a first hand account of a crime from someone else, and I have never lived in especially great areas.

I think social decline, unrest, rising violence and all of that is something that sounds quite exciting when you're of a certain inclination or age (I know I would have been intrigued by it from the age of 15 to 17, for instance), so you tend to suffer what I suppose is a kind of confirmation bias when you're consuming media and in your mind you give a lot of weight to things that are largely insignificant. That and the fact that you probably spend a lot of time getting pissed where people do tend to behave like twats.

In reality, we're generally a pretty well behaved and well educated society and I don't see any evidence of that changing. There are occasionaly incidents such as the London riots which make you wonder but they are very much the minority.

I agree with you, I was actually thinking of my own experiences with crime 10 years ago, my housemate got mugged, my friend, my sister and my parents had their cars nicked, friends got burgled, fights were common sights on a night out, but 10 years ago I and my friends were students, so much higher risk and often targeted, also spent more time out on the streets late at night, so saw a lot more fights and stuff. In the last 3-4 years I can only think of one major incident of crime against someone I know.

The problem these days is the media every incident that can sell newspapers gets blown out of all proportion, we will be hearing about this Batman shooting probably until the opening ceremony, and the internet, the way certain stories end up getting hyped up passed around, "go viral" if you will, the peado immigrant is a perfect example, and it all just stirs up fear hatred anger and you end up just getting bogged down in it all, until you realise that yes unfortunately these things happen but they are small isolated incidents, and living in fear is no way to live. There are a hell of a lot more decent people in this world than scumbags.

[Vacamion]

[BlueSi13]

As other people have mentioned, this country is not even remotely as bad as the media and indeed the current "Broken Britain" government like to portray.

I've lived and worked all over Europe and majority of us (even in Leicester) have it as good as any, though we do moan and express deeply rooted self-hate better than anyone.

Though i understand if somebody was to have a completely different view if they were a victim of a horrible crime or the like.

[Finnegan]

Can't remember the last time I witnessed a crime or even really heard a first hand account of a crime from someone else, and I have never lived in especially great areas.

****ing hell do you live under a rock or in a walled community?

I don't think the world is going to hell and I agree I think people sensationalize things for impact but we hardly live in a flawless utopia, either. You seriously can't remember the last time you had first or second hand contact with crime at any level?

[ozleicester]

Governments have always ruled by fear, however, since the events of 9/11 our governments have kept us in a heightened state of fear.

This is done first, externally, eg WMD and war in Afghanistan etc. But, More importantly it is also done from within, we are all told that no-one is safe, that no-one can be trusted, and we are all responsible for keeping vigilant and reporting to the authorities. We are bombarded with (real or imagined) terrorist plots, home grown terrorists and the general decline of society.

it is no wonder that many young people (as a rough guide, those aged 15 - 29), the ones wfor whom most of their lives have been spent under the shadows of terrorism... are on the edge,always ready to fight, and regualrly trying to block out their existence and fears by means of alcohol etc.

All of which is leading to a perceived more violent society. But all of which is nothing more than those in power seeking to reduce our rights and freedoms through fear.

*places second tin foil hat on head.

[The Year Of The Fox]

****ing hell do you live under a rock or in a walled community?

I don't think the world is going to hell and I agree I think people sensationalize things for impact but we hardly live in a flawless utopia, either. You seriously can't remember the last time you had first or second hand contact with crime at any level?

This.

Last week my grandmas neighbours house was burgled for the second time in a couple of months (no she doesnt live in coalville either) my mates car got keyed last week, and not so long back there was a hold up in a shop in one of the surrounding villages.

Its not hard to head about local crime. Unless you live in the antartic or somewhere

[Reynard Bleu]

Crime, or the fear of crime is a symptom, not a cause or a reason. Its the greed and avarice that underpins our Society that's the cause, we are told by the adverising world that more is better, the must have things, the things you can't live without, the essentials of life and success, if you don't have it, you are a failure. So if you don't have it, you can't afford it, but you 'need' it because the world measures your worth by what you have, then you take it. The answer is........feck knows, perhaps the end of the world as we know it is nigh.

[Bayfox]

I think the problem with crime is, the people committing it are more desperate, therefore go to greater lengths, meaning more violent crimes ie seriously injuring people is more common even if stats say it is down overall.

The thing i find with general society is that we as people are less accepting towards others, we have less manners and tolerence towards others. Even on here for example, even though we all follow the same club people become keyboard warriors giving it the big I am over the smallest of things.

Also don't forget we forget that these things may have gone on 40/50 years ago, but only the local town would know, you had regional papers etc, but now we have 24 hour TV and the internet, every one hears major stories in minutes, the whole world can know inside 24 hours.

[Captain...]

****ing hell do you live under a rock or in a walled community?

I don't think the world is going to hell and I agree I think people sensationalize things for impact but we hardly live in a flawless utopia, either. You seriously can't remember the last time you had first or second hand contact with crime at any level?

Why is that so unbelievable?

Some areas have much higher crime rates than others, some people have less contact with others, as I said in my post 10 years ago I was much more at risk than I am now, and I can clearly remember quite a high number of serious crimes that affected my friends and family.

In the last couple of years I have been fortunate enough to have been relatively crime free, although the one incident of crime I have suffered has been quite a big one, (my parent's home, my childhood home, got burgled and I came back to find it).

My, yours and Moosey's experiences are not reflective of the nation as a whole, being a victim of crime is normally just bad luck, bad timing or not taking sensible precautions, normally a combination of all 3.

[MooseBreath]

****ing hell do you live under a rock or in a walled community?

I don't think the world is going to hell and I agree I think people sensationalize things for impact but we hardly live in a flawless utopia, either. You seriously can't remember the last time you had first or second hand contact with crime at any level?

If I really think about it, I saw some kids stealing chocolate bars from spar about six months ago. Also heard a few months ago that someone had been trying to steal petrol from cars around my neighborhood. And it's not uncommon to hear vaguely of people stealing metals. So only the theft of sugary snacks was witnessed first hand. None of it really bothers me enough to say it's any kind of problem. You will always get a bit of crime.

I guess having travelled to some genuinely bad areas in different countries and seen how living in such areas is genuinely tough, I find it difficult to get a hard on over pretending my area is 'rough' and acting as if that makes me really tough and brave by association like some people do. We live in a safe country with a very good society, I see no point in pretending otherwise.

[Rincewind]

I saw somewhere that the carrying of guns by robbers rose after the train robbery in 1963. The thinking was if we are going to get 30 years for robbery then it is not a lot of difference to murder so we'll increase our chance of getting away if we have to.

People are more desperate as Bayfox says. It's not all to do with greed either Someone who is struggling to keep up with bills in a shitty job or unemployed after being made redundant may be tempted to take part in a one off robbery after being told there was no risk involved

Consumer goods has a lot to do with it. Whereas 50 years ago the things top of your list was a car and a TV now the list is much longer and in many cases income does not always cover it especially if the said income drops dramatically. The choice is reduce your lifestyle or go further in debt. Many people fall into the latter believing things may improve. The sensible ones amongst us will adjust but the I want it, and I want it now culture has been with us since the 80's when we were told if you want something then grab it and don't worry about who you tread on along the way.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

Older people )yes I am getting on myself) say to me things like 'We used to leave our doors open for the milkman, they came in took the money and left change. But not now.' They seem to forget that the only valuables in the house was a solid oak radiogram built into a sideboard and a tin bath. There were no TV's stereos PC's playstations etc so there was nothing worth nicking. Post offices were a better target and even then the bike was not a great getaway vehcle.

Spot on, Ken. Those were the good old days, and I remember them with fondness. Without all the TVs, stereos, and other technology, people used to interact far more, and be part of a genuine community, now sadly lost.