Brazil v England, Called off?

[Charl91]

Euro 2004 - Player of the tournament by a statute mile. Injured in quarter-final.

World Cup 2006 - Rushed back from injury before ready, ineffectual.

Euro 2008 - DNQ

World Cup 2010 - Poor tournament but whole team was appalling.

Euro 2012 - Scored the winner against Ukraine before England were outclassed in the quarter-final. Suspended for first two games.

 

I'm not sure what any of this proves. Generally, England have been poor at tournaments since 2004 so it seems a bit harsh to single out Rooney's poor performances.

 

He was immense in 2004. He has been shit since in touraments. Saying he "scored the winner" (tap in) against Ukraine masks how truly terrible he was in two games.

 

He isn't the same player he was in 2004. That Rooney was a lot more exciting and likely to pull a bit of magic out of nothing.

[The Year Of The Fox]

Big deflection.

 

I don't think it's too much to ask him to contriubute to a tournament. He gets a lot of hype that is clearly undeserved. He's just not that good a player. Shit is harsh, but he's not got the quality to make a big difference in a world cup match.

 

For years people have made him out to be a game changer and the key to England's success, but he's not been up to that since he broke his foot all those years ago.

I think the people who call him shit are just as guilty for over exaggerating as those who say he's world class.

[Captain...]

What's wrong with giving Forster, Lambert, Bent, Agbonlahor, Hooper, Lennon, Rodriguez, Lallana, Carroll a chance in friendlies ?

Instead of persisting with the same under achieving bunch, give some other lads a go!

 

Nothing if we have a good first team, that are used to playing together and know their role and positions and don't need the practice. 

[Danno]

I think it brings us back to the fact that we have very few players with any technical ability. We're crying out for a fit Wilshere.

I'd also play a Lescott/Jagielka combo rather than cahill - didn't they play together at Everton? They were also immense in the friendly vs. spain 2 years back.

Thing is we teach kids how to run around cones rather than pass the ball properly. Shocking isn't it.

[Kitchandro]

Euro 2004 - Player of the tournament by a statute mile. Injured in quarter-final.

World Cup 2006 - Rushed back from injury before ready, ineffectual.

Euro 2008 - DNQ

World Cup 2010 - Poor tournament but whole team was appalling.

Euro 2012 - Scored the winner against Ukraine before England were outclassed in the quarter-final. Suspended for first two games.

 

I'm not sure what any of this proves. Generally, England have been poor at tournaments since 2004 so it seems a bit harsh to single out Rooney's poor performances.

 

The fact is he shouldn't have been put straight back into the team. He isn't the world class miracle worker he's made out to be, it made no sense to replace Carroll who had already scored himself and had played well.

 

In the two games he did play he was very, very poor.

 

The reason people single Rooney out is he gets a load of hype. It needs to be pointed out that he is overrated, whereas everyone accepts that certain other players are just average or shit.

 

Which brings me to Glen Johnon - how does he continue to get in the team? He's a terrible player.

[Guest BlueBrett]

 might as well take that result.

 

Some on about the defence not being good enough, Jagielka is an absolute rock, he has done well for England in the past, had a terrific season for Everton but just didn't do well tonight, Cahill has had some solid games, but capable of mistakes as well, but he is a major threat from set pieces, so he is key in an attacking sense as well. 

 

I want to see, Forster, Richards, Shaw, Nolan, Lallana, Zaha and Rodriguez get called up and start our next Friendly game. 

Shaw isn't ready, Rodriguez isn't good enough and Nolan is only really effective in a team that pumps balls into the box.  I'd give the others a chance though.

 

 

Really pleased Rooney kept his scoring run for England going.  Should silence the haters for a bit and hopefully give him a much needed confidence boost.

[Kitchandro]

I think the people who call him shit are just as guilty for over exaggerating as those who say he's world class.

 

Not necessarily, if we're judging his England performances he's been nothing short of dog turd since 2004.

 

He's not a shit player, but he plays shit a lot more often than he really impresses me. In the last 8 years I don't think he's once impressed me for England.

[Danno]

So who would be in your line up against the jocks folks? Should we look to test things?

If everybody is fit

Hart

Walker Cahill Lescott Cole

Wilshere Carrick Lampard

Walcott Sturridge

Rooney

[The Year Of The Fox]

Euro 2004 - Player of the tournament by a statute mile. Injured in quarter-final.

World Cup 2006 - Rushed back from injury before ready, ineffectual.

Euro 2008 - DNQ

World Cup 2010 - Poor tournament but whole team was appalling.

Euro 2012 - Scored the winner against Ukraine before England were outclassed in the quarter-final. Suspended for first two games.

 

I'm not sure what any of this proves. Generally, England have been poor at tournaments since 2004 so it seems a bit harsh to single out Rooney's poor performances.

But World Class Rooney was playing in these qualifiers?!

 

We were very poor in 2010 but again I think a lot of being poor was because we failed miserably in playing to Rooney's strengths or possibly Rooney being guilty as usual going missing when searching for the ball in positions he shouldn't be in.

[Fox92]

I think the people who call him shit are just as guilty for over exaggerating as those who say he's world class.

 

I never personally said he is World Class. But what's World Class then, define me that? I always thought that my idea of World Class would be different to your idea of World Class... I see World Class as being able to change a game/standing out at the highest level (European Cup and World Cup/European Championships).

 

... Rooney might not be World Class, but in the same reference, what has Ronaldo ever done to contribute to Portugal at the highest level? About as much as Rooney. Yet, I'm guessing you call Ronaldo World Class (and rightly so).

[Kitchandro]

He was immense in 2004. He has been shit since in touraments. Saying he "scored the winner" (tap in) against Ukraine masks how truly terrible he was in two games.

 

He isn't the same player he was in 2004. That Rooney was a lot more exciting and likely to pull a bit of magic out of nothing.

 

Exactly. He's nowhere near the same player. Back then he could skin players, make runs in behind, he was mobile, the next Gazza almost but played further forward.

 

Now he's just a physical carthorse who scores goals.

[Corky]

Decent result.

 

kingfox, any more Southampton players to call up? Lambert? Le Tissier?

[leicesterisme]

So, what exactly did any of the other players do? Last year in the European Championships, there was no doubt Gerrard was our best player with Cole as well, but there were hardly any other contributions from the rest.

 

There is obviously too much weight on Rooney's shoulders if you just expect him to contribute in a tournamount.

 

I don't think he can win - he doesn't score and you call his shit. He scores a wonder goal out of nothing in the game and you call him shit.

 

I never said he was shit, he clearly isn't shit far from it but he isn't world class either far from that aswell.

 

His fellow strikers Carroll and Welbeck both peformed a lot better than him in the last tournament and they're not exactly great players are they? Certainly nowhere near the level Rooney is. 

[Guest BlueBrett]

Rooney IS world class. 

 

Any side in the world would be happy to have him - therefore world class.

[The Year Of The Fox]

I never personally said he is World Class. But what's World Class then, define me that? I always thought that my idea of World Class would be different to your idea of World Class... I see World Class as being able to change a game/standing out at the highest level (European Cup and World Cup/European Championships).

 

... Rooney might not be World Class, but in the same reference, what has Ronaldo ever done to contribute to Portugal at the highest level? About as much as Rooney. Yet, I'm guessing you call Ronaldo World Class (and rightly so).

I wasn't directing the world class statement at you. I was thinking about my retarded mates more than anyone on here

 

I can see your argument RE Ronaldo and even Messi, but the only thing I can come back with on that is that 1) Their respective countries have had other genuine world class players alongside them whereas we only have one (if someone choses to call Rooney world class) 2. Both Messi and Ronaldo are the standout players for their domestic sides. If they're not playing well the whole team isn't. That simply isn't true with Rooney and Man Utd. Indeed I've seen Utd play worse with Rooney in the side than when he's been brought off in the same game.

[kingfox]

Decent result.

 

kingfox, any more Southampton players to call up? Lambert? Le Tissier?

 

Shaw, Lallana and Rodriguez are good prospects, we will get to see what Shaw is capable of in the Under 21 Championship, people have called for Lallana to get another call up, while I rate Rodriguez. 

[The Year Of The Fox]

Rooney IS world class. 

 

Any side in the world would be happy to have him - therefore world class.

Do you honestly think he'd get into Bayern, Dortmunds, Madrids or Barcelonas starting 11? I honestly couldn't see that.

[Guest shearfox]

Exactly. He's nowhere near the same player. Back then he could skin players, make runs in behind, he was mobile, the next Gazza almost but played further forward.

Now he's just a physical carthorse who scores goals.

I agree there, he doesn't have that magic which he showed in Euro 2004, for some reason he has lost that explosive ability to beat players with ease.

[Fox92]

I never said he was shit, he clearly isn't shit far from it but he isn't world class either far from that aswell.

 

His fellow strikers Carroll and Welbeck both peformed a lot better than him in the last tournament and they're not exactly great players are they? Certainly nowhere near the level Rooney is. 

 

I wasn't aiming it at you. Just talking generally, in reference to this thread as well.

 

They arn't at the level Rooney is, which highlights my point. He is the best forward we have, he would be in my team and probably most teams in the World.

[Kitchandro]

Do you honestly think he'd get into Bayern, Dortmunds, Madrids or Barcelonas starting 11? I honestly couldn't see that.

 

If we're talking about the Rooney that's played for England barely anyone would want him.

[Fox92]

If we're talking about the Rooney that's played for England barely anyone would want him.

 

The one that just scored 7 in 7 at the highest level?

[Bert]

Do you honestly think he'd get into Bayern, Dortmunds, Madrids or Barcelonas starting 11? I honestly couldn't see that.

There's arguably a few world class players that don't get into said teams starting 11.

Kaka, Casillas, Higuain, Fabregas, Sanchez, all haven't been getting a start every week. Doesn't make them not world class.

Even if he isn't, Rooney is one of few who are at least close to being world class in the England team. Personally, I think he is. Easily our best player after Hart tonight. An assist and a (deflected) goal isn't too bad eh?

[Guest BlueBrett]

Do you honestly think he'd get into Bayern, Dortmunds, Madrids or Barcelonas starting 11? I honestly couldn't see that.

I think he would certainly push any one of muller, gomez, lewandowski, reus, sanchez, pedro, tello and benzema for their places.  For my money he is a better and more complete player than any of them.  I think in a way it is his versatility that holds him back. He takes on too much and never seems to have a clearly defined role for either Manu or England

[Kitchandro]

The one that just scored 7 in 7 at the highest level?

 

He's scored 7 in 7 at the World Cup?

[Bert]

He's scored 7 in 7 at the World Cup?

Very pedantic.

Obviously, international level.