MC Prussian Posted 30 July 2013 Posted 30 July 2013 I think even Pulis did it in two (as did Mackay). Instant is pretty much the 'norm' when it comes to promotion. Well, "instant" promotion... Does it exist? I mean, doesn't it usually involve a lot of foundation work in the process? Pulis guided Stoke to automatic promotion in his second year during his second spell with the club. Reading's ascent was also down to several excellent managers building on something longer-lasting. For their second spell, it took them two years to get there, as well. Looking at Reading, I think if we hadn't sacked Pearson the first time round, we could've ended up in the Premier League the season after.
MC Prussian Posted 30 July 2013 Posted 30 July 2013 You should get that seen to. Could be a nasty case of blue waffle. I'm not going to google that. Oh wait, I just did...
fleckneymike Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 Well, "instant" promotion... Does it exist? I mean, doesn't it usually involve a lot of foundation work in the process? Pulis guided Stoke to automatic promotion in his second year during his second spell with the club. Reading's ascent was also down to several excellent managers building on something longer-lasting. For their second spell, it took them two years to get there, as well. Looking at Reading, I think if we hadn't sacked Pearson the first time round, we could've ended up in the Premier League the season after. We'll never know, what we can see how ever that sticking with a manager has not been the recipe for success for any club wanting promotion (or mid table mediocrity for that matter). Managerial stability is overrated and a myth. I don't want Pearson out, I don't want Pearson in, I just want great football and I'd be happy for us to sack as many managers as it took until we achieved that goal.
Tielemans63 Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 I'm not going to google that. Oh wait, I just did... Apologies MCP. I've been there, done that (a Google search that is, not actual physical contact with blue waffle). If it makes you feel any better it's not real!
Guest Col city fan Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 You should get that seen to. Could be a nasty case of blue waffle.
MC Prussian Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 We'll never know, what we can see how ever that sticking with a manager has not been the recipe for success for any club wanting promotion (or mid table mediocrity for that matter). Managerial stability is overrated and a myth. I don't want Pearson out, I don't want Pearson in, I just want great football and I'd be happy for us to sack as many managers as it took until we achieved that goal. Managerial stability may be a myth - in the top flight. There, you can chop and change as you please, as the constant income of TV revenues coupled with the potent owner structure allows for great financial adventures. And as for promotion, chopping and changing managers will result in many, many more years of restarts and rebuilding - because we'd then lack stability and continual progress, a proper strategy and thoughtful use of the resources that we have at our disposal. As we have learned from recent history, instability and financial mismanagement almost broke our neck.
Guest Col city fan Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 Managerial stability may be a myth - in the top flight. There, you can chop and change as you please, as the constant income of TV revenues coupled with the potent owner structure allows for great financial adventures. And as for promotion, chopping and changing managers will result in many, many more years of restarts and rebuilding - because we'd then lack stability and continual progress, a proper strategy and thoughtful use of the resources that we have at our disposal. As we have learned from recent history, instability and financial mismanagement almost broke our neck. Crap again.. Get the right manager in and he'd get us up within two seasons, if not sooner. That might be Pearson, it might not. We'll see.Your assertion is based, again, on nothing of any substance whatsoever. Hull went up with Bruce (one season), Palace with Ollie (less than one season). Even McKay hasn't been at Cardiff too long. These are just examples. Your excuses and pro-Pearson arguments are dull and monotonous. Pearson had a great chance last year, blew it, and now it's gonna be tougher for him.
seenitall Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 Managerial stability may be a myth - in the top flight. There, you can chop and change as you please, as the constant income of TV revenues coupled with the potent owner structure allows for great financial adventures. And as for promotion, chopping and changing managers will result in many, many more years of restarts and rebuilding - because we'd then lack stability and continual progress, a proper strategy and thoughtful use of the resources that we have at our disposal. As we have learned from recent history, instability and financial mismanagement almost broke our neck. I can't believe you think this.......you have to be a wum. I am struggling to think of any manager in the past 5 years that has taken a team up being there for two or max three seasons. Even if you do find one they will be the exception. It is not me living in the past fella. And as for the rebuilding, also utter tripe. Most of the succesful managers make additions to a team that is performing under par with the previous manager and bring the best out of the remainder, kind of what we hoped for with Nige.
indierich06 Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 I don't really get what 'demanding greatness' will do for our chances of getting promotion. It won't get the manager sacked, it won't make the players any better, it won't magic any cash up for new signings - if that was all that was required, I'd be outside the King Power Stadium every day 'demanding greatness'. Newcastle and Man City didn't achieve what they've achieved because their fans 'demanded' it - that's an absolutely ludicrous suggestion to make. I suppose it was the fans refusal to accept failure that won Man city a Premier League title? Not the hundreds of millions pumped into the club by the oil barons running the show? Why didn't they win the Premier League before? Oh, their fans must not have 'demanded' it enough. At the end of the day, NOTHING we do as fans will have any effect on whether our club will go on to be successful. We're run by a couple of duty free magnates who haven't got a clue about football or how to invest their money wisely in this game. Consequently we've had about 3 years of failure, accumulated more debt than when we were in administration and we've gotten absolutely nowhere. We've blown the best chance we've ever had to establish ourselves in the PL and it's absolutely criminal the amount of money we've wasted on shit. I'm happy to see Pearson stay for the time being, but that's because there is no-one out there for me who would want to come to this shambles of a club or who could do a better job - and that is a depressing thought. So you can all continue to demand success all you like, see if that helps with our financial situation, or with results on the pitch, or see if that'll do anything to convince the thais to write off their debts and **** off, giving someone who actually knows what they're doing a chance. I love this club and I'm as ambitious as anyone, but it sickens me to see what's being done to Leicester City. Nothing but a thai boy's plaything now and he doesn't know what to do with it to make it work. He's spent too much money on trying to get success and now there's none left. So we've got to make do with what we've got - a slightly above average championship squad and a slightly above average championship manager. And they're expected to work mircales? Well maybe if we 'demand success' a bit more vociferously, that will see us over the line. Excuse me if I don't hold my breath though.
suffolk fox Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 When's the last time we had an England International? Fifteen, twenty years ago? Enjoy living in the past - I say, welcome to the future. Oh, and at one point, Newcastle were close to a nothing club with a small stadium and poor attendance. Manchester City stayed in the Third Division for how long? And are now back in the Premier League for how many years? It wasn't their fans who made a difference, it was £££. . Jesus h can no one have an opinion in your deluded, Utopia, Lcfc world. You my friend have obviously never been to Newcastle in your life. Poor attendances? Say that to a true Geordie. Man City were in the third div for one season.,..oh wait a minute that's the same as us? You mean you are comparing us to Man City? Jesus take off your blue tinted, alan young, love in specs and wise up. Quite frankly you are getting very boring and you cannot accept the club being criticised at all. When you grow up and get a job you will fail because criticism and fault picking are a part of life as well as positivity. Still can't believe you are saying Newcastle are a nothing club and can't fill their stadium? lol.
indierich06 Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 . Jesus h can no one have an opinion in your deluded, Utopia, Lcfc world. You my friend have obviously never been to Newcastle in your life. Poor attendances? Say that to a true Geordie. Man City were in the third div for one season.,..oh wait a minute that's the same as us? You mean you are comparing us to Man City? Jesus take off your blue tinted, alan young, love in specs and wise up. Quite frankly you are getting very boring and you cannot accept the club being criticised at all. When you grow up and get a job you will fail because criticism and fault picking are a part of life as well as positivity. Still can't believe you are saying Newcastle are a nothing club and can't fill their stadium? lol. Didn't bother to actually read his post before you spouted that garbage then, eh?
suffolk fox Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 Didn't bother to actually read his post before you spouted that garbage then, eh? If that is garbage, then what is mcprussians deluded ramblings about, Newcastle struggling to fill their stadium all about then? You are obviously a mate of his and a party member? Wise up and accept criticism, to answer your post I copied and pasted his post so of course i read it. Been to Newcastle many times in the last thirty years, their fans are some of the most passionate, friendly, bunch you will ever meet. They have always filled their stadium I certainly wouldn't dream of calling them a nothing club.
indierich06 Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 If that is garbage, then what is mcprussians deluded ramblings about, Newcastle struggling to fill their stadium all about then? You are obviously a mate of his and a party member? Wise up and accept criticism, to answer your post I copied and pasted his post so of course i read it. Been to Newcastle many times in the last thirty years, their fans are some of the most passionate, friendly, bunch you will ever meet. They have always filled their stadium I certainly wouldn't dream of calling them a nothing club. Oh change the record, it's ****ing boring. Not saying I agree with him, but he clearly isn't talking about Newcastle's recent history.
Babylon Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 Are people actually suggesting Newcastle and Man City are where they are because their fans moaned a lot? Because that's how it comes across. If that is garbage, then what is mcprussians deluded ramblings about, Newcastle struggling to fill their stadium all about then? You are obviously a mate of his and a party member? Wise up and accept criticism, to answer your post I copied and pasted his post so of course i read it. Been to Newcastle many times in the last thirty years, their fans are some of the most passionate, friendly, bunch you will ever meet. They have always filled their stadium I certainly wouldn't dream of calling them a nothing club. Errrr no they haven't, they had shite attendances for quite some time.
Babylon Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 I too find the acceptance of mediocrity staggering. Just because we haven't been a 'big club' for many years doesn't mean we can't be. Given the bloody resources pumped in over the past few years we should have been at least contending. The lack of ambition displayed by some is unreal. Who has accepted it? Who has said "I'm happy where we are"?
MC Prussian Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 . Jesus h can no one have an opinion in your deluded, Utopia, Lcfc world. You my friend have obviously never been to Newcastle in your life. Poor attendances? Say that to a true Geordie. Man City were in the third div for one season.,..oh wait a minute that's the same as us? You mean you are comparing us to Man City? Jesus take off your blue tinted, alan young, love in specs and wise up. Quite frankly you are getting very boring and you cannot accept the club being criticised at all. When you grow up and get a job you will fail because criticism and fault picking are a part of life as well as positivity. Still can't believe you are saying Newcastle are a nothing club and can't fill their stadium? lol. Erm... just for the record, how old are you? Did you actually bother to read my post? No, you didn't. Newcastle had some really poor attendances in the early 80ies and 90ies, before the move to a refurbished St. James' Park. And that's what I said. And yes, I have been to Newcastle before. Lovely city with wonderful architecture and great cultural offerings (apart from the usual teenage drunkyards on the streets at night). I do accept the club being criticized if it were the club... the main antagonist in your and other people's plans, however, is one individual in particular. Nigel Pearson. So change your record and start living up to your promise.
Corky Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 You make excuses for everything, are you just an idiot who likes to argue with everything, even if you know you are wrong and don't mind making a fool of yourself in doing so. You quote facts that are wrong, you misquote, you spent your time writing a long post asking questions that l could drill holes in, but l didn't think it was worth wasting my time replying to someone who will never accept anything if its not the same as your stand point. "l'm one of the spoilt few" you stupid tw at, WHO said we have a god given right ? you my friend are one of the biggest idiots ever to post on a message board. Fits in well with you then.
MC Prussian Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 Crap again.. Get the right manager in and he'd get us up within two seasons, if not sooner. That might be Pearson, it might not. We'll see. Your assertion is based, again, on nothing of any substance whatsoever. Hull went up with Bruce (one season), Palace with Ollie (less than one season). Even McKay hasn't been at Cardiff too long. These are just examples. Your excuses and pro-Pearson arguments are dull and monotonous. Pearson had a great chance last year, blew it, and now it's gonna be tougher for him. We've unsuccessfully tried to get "the right manager in" for ten years now and for the first time in about a decade have a chance of building on something longer-lasting, with a more or less established squad. Palace under Freedman were already doing pretty well, so I don't see the huge difference Holloway made at Selhurst. As for Bruce, he also has a lot laid out for him by Pearson in terms of player personnel. If you believe that it is the manager alone that steers the ship, leads the club and makes the all-important decisions, I say you're pretty much off the mark. All this petty scapegoating online when the season hasn't even started yet... I'm by no means a Pearson fan, but I do know that I'm anti anti-manager (if you know what I mean). That's two different kind of shoes.
5waller5 Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 We've unsuccessfully tried to get "the right manager in" for ten years now and for the first time in about a decade have a chance of building on something longer-lasting, with a more or less established squad. Palace under Freedman were already doing pretty well, so I don't see the huge difference Holloway made at Selhurst. As for Bruce, he also has a lot laid out for him by Pearson in terms of player personnel. If you believe that it is the manager alone that steers the ship, leads the club and makes the all-important decisions, I say you're pretty much off the mark. All this petty scapegoating online when the season hasn't even started yet... I'm by no means a Pearson fan, but I do know that I'm anti anti-manager (if you know what I mean). That's two different kind of shoes. I think we know your opinions now.
blueoveru Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 So why did Hull let him go so easily ......without a fight?? also why employ a manager if this is so..............they are the ones with supposed experience in running Clubs, yes I know he has an entourage to help him ...but he is the ultimate decision maker. I know its pre-season but people are getting uptight because they see we are not moving forward, we could well be stagnating and it is'nt good enough if you are at all ambitious.....after all the man has a handsome contract
Corky Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 So why did Hull let him go so easily ......without a fight?? also why employ a manager if this is so..............they are the ones with supposed experience in running Clubs, yes I know he has an entourage to help him ...but he is the ultimate decision maker. I know its pre-season but people are getting uptight because they see we are not moving forward, we could well be stagnating and it is'nt good enough if you are at all ambitious.....after all the man has a handsome contract Really?
MC Prussian Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 I think we know your opinions now. Thanks. And so I shall make them heard in the future.
Leicester_Numan Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 So why did Hull let him go so easily ......without a fight?? also why employ a manager if this is so..............they are the ones with supposed experience in running Clubs, yes I know he has an entourage to help him ...but he is the ultimate decision maker. I know its pre-season but people are getting uptight because they see we are not moving forward, we could well be stagnating and it is'nt good enough if you are at all ambitious.....after all the man has a handsome contract Let him go so easily without a fight? You are aware of why they don't want to sell us any of their players aren't you?No, sorry, obviously you're not
fleckneymike Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 Managerial stability may be a myth - in the top flight. There, you can chop and change as you please, as the constant income of TV revenues coupled with the potent owner structure allows for great financial adventures. And as for promotion, chopping and changing managers will result in many, many more years of restarts and rebuilding - because we'd then lack stability and continual progress, a proper strategy and thoughtful use of the resources that we have at our disposal. As we have learned from recent history, instability and financial mismanagement almost broke our neck. As Col has said, this season's promoted sides were led by managers who'd been in post for a max of two seasons, 2011/12 Adkins too Southampton up in successive seasons, Allardyce instant success, McDermot in his first full season, 2010/11 Warnock first full season, Lambert successive seasons, Rodgers first season 2009/10 Houghton first season, DiMatteo first season, Holloway first season 2008/09 McCarthy (THIRD SEASON), McLeish returned at first attempt, Coyle first full season 2007/08 Mowbray first full season, Pulis first full season, Brown first full season 2006/07 Keane first season, Bruce returned first attempt, Davies first season I could go on but instant success under your terms (i.e. as long as Pearson has currently had) is the norm. Undoubtedly 'instant' failure is probably also quite likely but either way, if you want out of this league then swapping managers frequently is the only way.
Babylon Posted 31 July 2013 Posted 31 July 2013 Of course it does look better when you say things like "instant success" and "Successive seasons" and "first full season". When in reality what that means is it's actually their second or even third season at the club.
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