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FuriousFox46

The Dying Derby With Derby

By FuriousFox46, in Leicester City Forum

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Bilo

Bilo

Posted
Posted

I personally think the rivalry is dying for the following reasons.

 

1) Poor support on both sides.

Less than 1,000 away fans from Derby and 12,000 empty seats at the KP. Big derbies have big atmospheres, you're not going to get either with statistics like that.

2) Our excellent record against Derby in recent years.

It's been great for us, but a rivalry where one team wins constantly isn't good for excitement. Since our return from League One, we've played nine games against Derby and won six of them. So far as I'm aware, they haven't won at our place since Filbert Street was still standing. 

3) The two sides' fortunes have diverged in recent years.

While we've been gunning for promotion in recent years with two play-off finishes in our four full seasons back in the Championship, Derby have been mired in mid-table mediocrity for most of it. This means that our games are far less consequential than, for example, May 4th. You all know exactly who the opposition were, the score, who scored the winner and what happened as a result. May 4th will live in the memory for years, no Derby game has been close for a long time.

4) Forest games have been of more consequence.

The above moves me neatly on to my next point. Forest bring more fans to us, their team is better than Derby's so we are rivals in the league as well as the geographical basis, we've had the racist Forest fans scandal (if you want to call it that) in the FA Cup, taken 8,000 there in the same game and of course had May 4th 2013. I do find, as vacuous as this sounds, that there is far more edgy/racist 'bantoh lololol11!!' from the more 'challenged' Forest fans as well. This doesn't happen to the same extent with Derby fans, either because they're nicer people or genuinely do see us as third rivals.

5) Leeds United.

With Leicester and Forest having far superior seasons in recent years, many Derby fans will have resurrected the old Leeds rivalry. It is, as you rightly say, almost completely one-sided due ironically to Leeds having a one-sided loathing of Manchester United; however, Derby have been far more equipped to actually compete with Leeds on the field of play in the past few years.

6) Derby and Forest "don't care about Leicester."

Their contradictory insistence on telling us we're irrelevant has gotten to the point where supposedly fierce rivals sing the same songs about irrelevant Leicester, pat each other on the back about how irrelevant Leicester are and drink to the misfortunes of the irrelevant ones. The one thing Derby and Forest fans can agree on is their contempt of irrelevant little Leicester, and this has diluted the rivalry.

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Bilo

Bilo

Posted
Posted

Lost it's edge since 2002, until then as a regular Premier League fixture it was a key game.

 

Aye, I would argue it was fiercer than the Forest games from the mid 1990's to the demise of Filbert Street. Wembley '94, the 4-0 thrashing we dealt out at Pride Park and the regularity of the fixture all had their part to play. It seemed that we followed each other a lot; when we got relegated they did, and the same for promotion. 

 

Forest were too much of a yo-yo club back then. It's hard to maintain a proper rivalry with a side you only play two seasons in a row, just as it is hard to maintain with a rivalry with a side you can usually brush aside.

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Zingari

Zingari

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Aye, I would argue it was fiercer than the Forest games from the mid 1990's to the demise of Filbert Street. Wembley '94, the 4-0 thrashing we dealt out at Pride Park and the regularity of the fixture all had their part to play. It seemed that we followed each other a lot; when we got relegated they did, and the same for promotion. 

 

Forest were too much of a yo-yo club back then. It's hard to maintain a proper rivalry with a side you only play two seasons in a row, just as it is hard to maintain with a rivalry with a side you can usually brush aside.

if we're being honest we're all yo-yo clubs .

i never really considered Derby as a particular rival any more than Stoke Wolves WBA etc , it was never really any more than just another match .

Forest took on a greater edge as a rivalry  to us because there was the beginnings of real  crowd trouble back in the late 60's and so fiercer rivalries developed .

I think it would have continued a greater rivalry  if it wasn't for the Clough era which saw Derby and Forest becoming more entwined . 

Derby were languishing in the lower divisions for long periods during this time of early football crowd troubles

 

That's how i saw the 3 way rivalry develop anyway 

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Corky

Corky

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if we're being honest we're all yo-yo clubs .

i never really considered Derby as a particular rival any more than Stoke Wolves WBA etc , it was never really any more than just another match .

Forest took on a greater edge as a rivalry  to us because there was the beginnings of real  crowd trouble back in the late 60's and so fiercer rivalries developed .

I think it would have continued a greater rivalry  if it wasn't for the Clough era which saw Derby and Forest becoming more entwined . 

Derby were languishing in the lower divisions for long periods during this time of early football crowd troubles

 

That's how i saw the 3 way rivalry develop anyway 

 

Derby was always the biggest when I was growing up, as we played them every year for about 10 years (promoted and relegated together). Forest, for me, took off when they went down to Division 3 and our subsequent promotion battles and cup games.

 

Coventry were pretty big games during the Premiership seasons.

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Bilo

Bilo

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if we're being honest we're all yo-yo clubs .

i never really considered Derby as a particular rival any more than Stoke Wolves WBA etc , it was never really any more than just another match .

Forest took on a greater edge as a rivalry  to us because there was the beginnings of real  crowd trouble back in the late 60's and so fiercer rivalries developed .

I think it would have continued a greater rivalry  if it wasn't for the Clough era which saw Derby and Forest becoming more entwined . 

Derby were languishing in the lower divisions for long periods during this time of early football crowd troubles

 

That's how i saw the 3 way rivalry develop anyway 

 

Yeah, a lot of older Foxes (including my dad) have said similar.

 

Pre Clough pitching up at Forest, Leicester-Forest was the big East Midlands rivalry with both of us regularly in the First Division and Derby struggling in the Second and Third. Obviously Forest-Derby is the bigger rivalry now, but it seems silly to dismiss Leicester-Forest when it has so many years of history behind it. We've gone from neither side caring about Derby pre Clough, to Derby only caring about Forest and Leeds, to Derby and Leicester building a rivalry in the 90's and early noughties due to some big games and regular meetings to the rivalry dying again.

 

I think it's a more geographical rivalry than anything, fans from Coalville see it as the big one, but it's not our traditional main rivalry. That one goes to Leicester and Forest.

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Fox92

Fox92

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Yeah, a lot of older Foxes (including my dad) have said similar.

 

Pre Clough pitching up at Forest, Leicester-Forest was the big East Midlands rivalry with both of us regularly in the First Division and Derby struggling in the Second and Third. Obviously Forest-Derby is the bigger rivalry now, but it seems silly to dismiss Leicester-Forest when it has so many years of history behind it. We've gone from neither side caring about Derby pre Clough, to Derby only caring about Forest and Leeds, to Derby and Leicester building a rivalry in the 90's and early noughties due to some big games and regular meetings to the rivalry dying again.

 

I think it's a more geographical rivalry than anything, fans from Coalville see it as the big one, but it's not our traditional main rivalry. That one goes to Leicester and Forest.

 

I have no evidence to support this.

 

Everywhere I've read it's always been Forest/Derby, and Clough's move just enhanced it, as it should have. Look how close Derby and Nottingham is, it's seperated the A52, they hate each other... I do think they both take a dislike to Leicester as well, even if they try and deny it. I've always felt Derby hated us more than Forest, because of the Play off final.

 

The two biggest rivalries in the Midlands are Forest/Derby and Birmingham/Villa, I think most neutral's even go with this, but it doesn't mean we can't hate who we want. Just because someone doesn't hate us back, it doesn't effect anything does it? I hate Sheffield Wednesday more than any other team (personal reasons and location etc) but most of you just see them as another team.

 

I enjoy our rivalries with Forest and Derby and anybody who doesn't from either side isn't telling the truth imo.

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Bilo

Bilo

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I have no evidence to support this.

 

Everywhere I've read it's always been Forest/Derby, and Clough's move just enhanced it, as it should have. Look how close Derby and Nottingham is, it's seperated the A52, they hate each other... I do think they both take a dislike to Leicester as well, even if they try and deny it. I've always felt Derby hated us more than Forest, because of the Play off final.

 

The two biggest rivalries in the Midlands are Forest/Derby and Birmingham/Villa, I think most neutral's even go with this, but it doesn't mean we can't hate who we want. Just because someone doesn't hate us back, it doesn't effect anything does it? I hate Sheffield Wednesday more than any other team (personal reasons and location etc) but most of you just see them as another team.

 

I enjoy our rivalries with Forest and Derby and anybody who doesn't from either side isn't telling the truth imo.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nottingham_Forest_F.C.#Local_rivals.2C_derbies_and_supporters

 

Whilst Notts County is the closest professional football club geographically, Forest have remained at least one division higher since the 1994–95 season and the club's fiercest rivalry is with Derby County, located 14 miles away.[79] The two clubs contest the East Midlands derby, a fixture which has taken on even greater significance since the inception of the Brian Clough Trophy in 2007. Leicester City are Forest's other East Midlands rival due to the close proximity of the two cities. During the pre-Clough era, Leicester were largely considered Forest's main rivals. This is still the case for Forest fans of Melton Mowbray, Loughborough, Rutland and yesteryear.

 

 

Leicester and Nottingham were, and still are, the biggest two cities in the East Midlands. Economically, we were rivals and the fans of both clubs often came from textiles industries that were competing against one another. West Ham and Millwall are big rivals for similar reasons. The rivalry between Leicester and Nottingham as cities is very old and permeated onto the terraces of Filbert Street and the City Ground. In terms of cities, Derby has always been the poor relation. It was only when Clough turned up at the Baseball Ground and Derby started winning things that Forest turned to them as rivals. 

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Kitchandro

Kitchandro

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I have no evidence to support this.

 

Everywhere I've read it's always been Forest/Derby, and Clough's move just enhanced it, as it should have. Look how close Derby and Nottingham is, it's seperated the A52, they hate each other... I do think they both take a dislike to Leicester as well, even if they try and deny it. I've always felt Derby hated us more than Forest, because of the Play off final.

 

The two biggest rivalries in the Midlands are Forest/Derby and Birmingham/Villa, I think most neutral's even go with this, but it doesn't mean we can't hate who we want. Just because someone doesn't hate us back, it doesn't effect anything does it? I hate Sheffield Wednesday more than any other team (personal reasons and location etc) but most of you just see them as another team.

 

I enjoy our rivalries with Forest and Derby and anybody who doesn't from either side isn't telling the truth imo.

 

Everywhere you've read of Derby forums probably ;)

 

Nottingham and Leicester are the two big historical Cities in the East Midlands. There's been a rivalry between the Cities going back beyond football.

 

Derby were a nothing club before Clough, still are in many ways. A lot of derbies took off in the 70s era so it's no surprise that's what happened with Forest and Derby.

 

I take your point about georgaphy to some extent, it does make sense, but football logic doesn't work like that. Coventry are closer to us but we've always hated Forest more. Man Utd and Liverpool share Cities with other big clubs but their hatred have always been the biggest with each other.

 

Obviously geography is significant in a lot of derbies but more specifically the similarities between the two clubs IMO. for example, Leicester and Forest were the two big clubs and big Cities, until the 70s when Derby shared a manager with Forest and were both hugely successful for a while whilst we started to decline.

 

Then in the 90s, us and Derby were battling it out a lot and it became a very big game. I'm a similar age to you so I imagine like me you saw Derby as the big rivalry when you were growing up, not Forest who were mainly in the 1st division.

 

Since the 09/10 season the game with Forest has become big again because we've been promotion hopefuls whilst Derby haven't. The Derby game is less important to me now because as Bilo says, we're just better than them. There's not been enough bitterness built up.

 

It's all about the individual as well of course. I still love beating them both myself.

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DANGEROUS TIGER

DANGEROUS TIGER

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Derby had a real gem once, in the form of Archie Gemmell. * Not sure it's spelt right ) What I would give for him. What I would give for him to be around today, playing for us, in midfield.

 

People knock Scottish players, but some of the best I have ever seen in my 53 years of watching footy, were Scottish, and true Legends.

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