Teachers Strike

[Webbo]

I agree,

However is it our childrens choice which education system they grow up in?

Is it fair medalling politicians with no mandate make such a turbulent convoluted system?

There needs to be an end to the short term, self serving approach of elite politicians that constrain our education system.

Do you think that the existing/previous education system was doing a good job, considering that 20% of children leave school functionally illiterate? 

 

Maybe these self serving elite politicians want what's best for the pupils and it's the intransigence of the educational experts that's holding kids back?

[Matt]

 Yes it is.

 

Come join us.

 

No thanks.

 

I agree,

However is it our childrens choice which education system they grow up in?

Is it fair medalling politicians with no mandate make such a turbulent convoluted system?

There needs to be an end to the short term, self serving approach of elite politicians that constrain our education system.

 

No and believe me I was fucked over by it, did me no good staying at school until 16, should have let me leave a couple of years earlier, let me go college, let me learn my trade and let me get a couple of years ahead in a career I wanted and something I wanted to do, instead I was years at school.

 

I'm not moaning, far from it, I'm happy in my work, content, i'm just stating where I am personally, but I do on average 50 - 60 hour weeks, no pay rise in 2 years, I don't strike, I get on with it.

[leicsmac]

Do you think that the existing/previous education system was doing a good job, considering that 20% of children leave school functionally illiterate? 

 

Maybe these self serving elite politicians want what's best for the pupils and it's the intransigence of the educational experts that's holding kids back?

 

Can't believe that, in the same way that I wouldn't believe the word of a shopkeeper over a scientist regarding nuclear physics.

 

Experts are experts for a reason, and politicians throughout the ages have used education (as well as other areas) as a political football. Why should we trust their intentions now when they are so unwilling to trust expert judgement to help their decisions on this matter?

[Zingari]

No thanks.

 

 

No and believe me I was fucked over by it, did me no good staying at school until 16, should have let me leave a couple of years earlier, let me go college, let me learn my trade and let me get a couple of years ahead in a career I wanted and something I wanted to do, instead I was years at school.

 

I'm not moaning, far from it, I'm happy in my work, content, but I do on average 50 - 60 hour weeks, no pay rise in 2 years, I don't strike, I get on with it.

you've maybe got a point there.  They do seem to be striving for a one size fits all approach to education 

[Matt]

you've maybe got a point there.  They do seem to be striving for a one size fits all approach to education 

 

Don't get me wrong you can't just let kids who want to leave early simply leave early, we'd have even more dossers, even more people on dole, even more people popping out kids right, left and centre, e.t.c, but for someone like me staying until I was 16 really was a wasted few years for me.

 

You'd need to force people to either go college, find a work based placement, e.t.c, or stay at school and be strict with either option.

[leicsmac]

you've maybe got a point there.  They do seem to be striving for a one size fits all approach to education 

 

Yeah, and that's part of the problem. Education isn't personalised enough, and so you have so many children who fall through the cracks due to this lack. 

 

I'm massively in favour of increased staffing to lower class sizes. It would help massively in a variety of different ways.

[lcfc81]

Do you think that the existing/previous education system was doing a good job, considering that 20% of children leave school functionally illiterate?

Maybe these self serving elite politicians want what's best for the pupils and it's the intransigence of the educational experts that's holding kids back?

It maybe wasn't (although I would like some evidence of 20% being functionally illiterate).

However you miss my point, I am not against change, I am against change based on the time frames set out by politicians that seem to best suit their political careers. How that is achievable with the current system I don't know.

[leicsmac]

Don't get me wrong you can't just let kids who want to leave early simply leave early, we'd have even more dossers, even more people on dole, even more people popping out kids right, left and centre, e.t.c, but for someone like me staying until I was 16 really was a wasted few years for me.

 

You'd need to force people to either go college, find a work based placement, e.t.c, or stay at school and be strict with either option.

 

Yeah, again the need to diversify here - make more different practical options available for those who want them (apprenticeships etc) rather than the purely academic ones.

 

But since the STEM and practical disciplines have always been treated with disdain in this country (despite the considerable success of many Brits in those fields) and the arts/history are treated like gospel, I can't see it happening.

[sdb]

I've read the first few replies and can't see beyond the red mist. What the **** are you lot on?

 

Join a profession, work 50+ hours every week, get paid less than average, and then I get told my pension contributions will go up, my pension will go down, i'll have to work considerably longer (5-10 years), get told the subject I teach is 'soft' and one of several subjects some grey man with no knowledge of the state sector/comprehensive education wants to cut because he alone knows what subjects every child should and shouldn't do, tells us how to teach (something he's never done) and basically rips the heart and soul out of education. 

 

Those of you moaning about the strikes...piss right off. You have no idea. I know forums are for opinions but you don't know the facts so you should look into them before commenting. 

[Alf Bentley]

No worries Alf, I did get the feeling you had some sort of moral viewpoint on me for what I did. I'm been knocking up CV's anyway today as I'm going to be right back in 'real world' of work quite soon.

 

Agree on the second paragraph, unfortunately politics has become just as much of an image/celebrity type game as everything else, the days of a person looking like John Major or James Callaghan being elected are long gone, from what I have read today a lot of the speakers at the conferences over the last two weeks spent more time in make up than working on their speeches.

 

Nah! I'm opinionated, argumentative, pedantic, verbose and sometimes provocative, but not judgmental, I hope - and certainly not on morality, within reason. Typical wet social liberal! Good luck with the CVs - just make sure you get a job with plenty of Foxestalk access; you could try the TUC, maybe? 

 

I wonder how important image is compared to credibility? Cameron didn't particularly win people over, just benefited from the crisis, New Labour looking discredited etc. Probably important not to look a non-credible PM (and Miliband still might have some work to do there), but I reckon the state of the economy and the state of people's wallet/purse still matters more.

[sdb]

And don't get me started on free schools. One's been set up close to where my dad lives. They were given £7 mill (which they didn't even ask for) and they've got something like 11 kids there. It's about 4 times more than the local school with 600 pupils get! 'Clueless' doesn't come close.

[Webbo]

Can't believe that, in the same way that I wouldn't believe the word of a shopkeeper over a scientist regarding nuclear physics.

 

Experts are experts for a reason, and politicians throughout the ages have used education (as well as other areas) as a political football. Why should we trust their intentions now when they are so unwilling to trust expert judgement to help their decisions on this matter?

They are experts who have a long record of failure though.

[Zingari]

They are experts who have a long record of failure though.

yes it's time  they gave others the chance to cock things up 

[Alf Bentley]

Another thing that always surprises me when these debates arise is that people talk about how there working conditions are acceptable(e.g I have no pension etc).

My feeling is there needs to be more general working unions to stand up for everyone against some of the larger companies that turn large profits. For example how can zero hour contracts be acceptable (just my opinion)?

Working unions are a voice piece for working people are they not?

 

Exactly! Improve poor employment conditions, let's not have a "race to the bottom" to get the worst conditions possible!

 

Do you think that the existing/previous education system was doing a good job, considering that 20% of children leave school functionally illiterate? 

 

Maybe these self serving elite politicians want what's best for the pupils and it's the intransigence of the educational experts that's holding kids back?

 

There are plenty of problems, no doubt, but how many are down to teachers/experts, how many down to constant interference by successive governments and/or OFSTED...or indeed to poor parenting, material/social distractions for children, parents under too much pressure, lack of discipline etc. There obviously are poor teachers, but I suspect they're probably the least guilty party in the problems that you raise

 

Gove has a clear "traditional education" agenda, though he did show a bit more flexibility recently...my impression is that New Labour interference was just as bad: e.g. SATS, league tables, prescriptive curricula etc.

[katieakita]

Loving some of the informed comments on here, if teaching is so easy why don't we all do it? I run a Post Office and am amazed by the general public who think we are being sold but again it must be true because they read it in the papers.

[theessexfox]

I used a few light quotes from this thread in a blog post about the strikes, apologies to all for plagiarism!

[lcfc81]

They are experts who have a long record of failure though.

How are you measuring failure?

How have the experts caused this and not the politicians who have run education on a 5 year rotation?

There needs to be a change, there is a role for experts and politicians imo. The current system is not beneficial to anyone atm imo. The problem has been exasperated by a politician trying to bring about an ideological shift in the space of 2-3 years before the next incumbent takes office!

[The God Emperor]

a question to the teachers on here.

do you believe that education would improve if we de-centralised it? as in instead of having the central authority dictate how things should work, each individual school was given a greater control over how they teach and what they teach. coupled with a belgian style funding with the money being tied to each child, I think this would be an improvement. it gives parents a greater freedom of choice and it allows individual schools the freedom to try out new ideas and different ways of teaching.

and if anyone has read my previous posts in other threads you'll know I have a ron jeremy size hard-on for freedom 

[lcfc81]

a question to the teachers on here.

do you believe that education would improve if we de-centralised it? as in instead of having the central authority dictate how things should work, each individual school was given a greater control over how they teach and what they teach. coupled with a belgian style funding with the money being tied to each child, I think this would be an improvement. it gives parents a greater freedom of choice and it allows individual schools the freedom to try out new ideas and different ways of teaching.

and if anyone has read my previous posts in other threads you'll know I have a ron jeremy size hard-on for freedom

Some would do fantastically, others would struggle I imagine, however the funding attached to pupils means school who were poorer would lose students and better schools would grow.

My main concern would be that under that system exam boards would call the shots more as they would become the only/ main external measure of accountability (far more teaching to the exam throughout the key stages?) also what role would ofsted have and how would they measure success in this system (with a huge increase in intricacy of the system)?

[Rincewind]

I cannot comment on this thread as I am not a teacher or have had any experience of being a teacher. I will however take note of those that are teachers.

[The God Emperor]

Some would do fantastically, others would struggle I imagine, however the funding attached to pupils means school who were poorer would lose students and better schools would grow.

My main concern would be that under that system exam boards would call the shots more as they would become the only/ main external measure of accountability (far more teaching to the exam throughout the key stages?) also what role would ofsted have and how would they measure success in this system (with a huge increase in intricacy of the system)?

I agree its not perfect. I dont work in education so I dont know the ins and outs of it all but like a lot of things I believe a decentralised and locally focused system is better than having a monolithic central power structure.

teachers are going to know whats best for their student, especially more than some bureaucrat will, so I'd rather they had the power.

the poorer schools losing students is part of the point, they will be forced to correct their failings and they will have the control to correct it.

I suppose the success of a school will measured by it's students achievements and whether it produces well rounded and successful individuals. but I agree the exam boards would create a problem. 

[Webbo]

I cannot comment on this thread as I am not a teacher or have had any experience of being a teacher. I will however take note of those that are teachers.

You're not a business man nor a banker but you're an expert on those. What about parents? Are they allowed an opinion?

[z-layrex]

I'm not saying they don't enjoy the good holidays, but they are not complete holidays, even at primary school level.

 

There are some shit teachers out there who scrape by doing the minimum (as there are in any job, and amongst the unemployed too) but it is not a cushy job, it is a very intense experience being in the class room, you can't switch off, you can't dick about on Foxes Talk when you should be working, or even go to the toilet when you want. You have 30 pairs of eyes staring at you waiting on your every word, looking for any slip or mistake that they can take advantage of, trying to prove you wrong and expose your ignorance. You get round that by preparing good lessons. This is without even considering having to deal with difficult/troubled/depressed/hyperactive/slow children and all the problems normal kids come with such as puberty. Seriously try it you will be very appreciative of your current job after a day teaching.

 

This, I certainly don't think I could do their job. The way the kids treated the teachers at the horrible school I went to was a disgrace.

[leicsmac]

You're not a business man nor a banker but you're an expert on those. What about parents? Are they allowed an opinion?

 

Many parents can help out the education industry by actually disciplining their children at home and believing teachers when they say they're an underperforming lazy acting-up scrote, rather than insisting they're little angels.

 

That's not to say many parents don't do a great job - most of them do, and you can tell which ones just by looking how their kids behave in school. 

 

Disciplining, managing and giving life skills to the children should be left to parents, teaching and education should be left to the teachers. Right now the lines are too blurred.

 

To answer the question - of course they're allowed an opinion, but it's going to be as partial and possibly as uninformed as the rest of society.

 

They are experts who have a long record of failure though.

 

Perhaps if they were given more freedom they might fail less.

[Charl91]

I'm doing my teacher training this year. similarly, a lot of my family are teachers, and my missus is also in her first year as a newly qualified teacher. If you think it's an easy job, or short hours, then you are clueless. I'm out the house at 7 and I get back at 6. When I get back I spend a good few hours doing work each night. Similarly, my partner gets to school at 7.30 and is never home earlier than 5. She spends the vast majority of her time at home doing analysis/lesson planning/marking.

 

Working in the private sector (3D printing) in comparison was a ****ing piece of cake. Had I taken up the job full-time I was offered, not only would I have started on a similar wages to teachers, but it would be a lot less work and responsibility (and hours). The problem is a lot of people in this thread are absolutely clueless on what it is that teachers actually have to do. They think that having been to school and once knowing someone who was a teacher makes them qualified to comment on something that not only are they pretty ignorant about. 

 

Coming into the profession at this time, I now have to pay more then previous generations (£9000) to become a teacher. On top of that, I will now get paid less, while also being expected to work longer hours, if Goves plans go ahead. If things carry on at this rate, then the only people who will want to teach are the kind of people who you do not want to be teachers. At the moment, lots of people will teach because they enjoy the profession and find it rewarding, but that's only going to last for so long, because it's really not a job that is good value for money.

 

Think about this statistic. Between 40-50% of teachers leave the profession within their first 5 years. Does that sound like a cushy, easy going job to you?