Captain... Posted 1 October 2013 Posted 1 October 2013 This, I certainly don't think I could do their job. The way the kids treated the teachers at the horrible school I went to was a disgrace. What made me realise I could never be a teacher was when I was younger and my Dad was a Headmaster at a primary school, and he came home one night and a kid had basically drowned and died despite him trying to resuscitate him, I know this is an exceptional circumstance, but he was a broken man for weeks after that, it was just brutal to see. Having the responsibility of looking after so many kids who get up to so much shit, just out of childish curiosity and youthful exuberance, just too much pressure and responsibility for me to handle.
Tielemans63 Posted 1 October 2013 Posted 1 October 2013 People are missing the point - 99% of teachers I know are striking because of conditions, not because of pay or pensions. We weren't happy about having promises broken but most have accepted that we have to do our to assist the economic recovery. The media consistently pedal the line that this strike is about 'pay, pensions and conditions' (in that order) and sorry but that's bollocks. It's about the gradual destruction of education by the uber-**** that is Michael Gove. It's about the constant devaluation of state education in a time when producing the next generation of productive and capable young people is absolutley essential. Believe me, under Goves laughably antiquated system we be light years behind the leading nations. We will have a small coiterie of super-talented people but the bi-product is that we will have millions of people with no transferrable skills but they'll know all about 16th Century Britain. I'm not against performance-related pay (as long as it's done fairly) and I agree with the moves to make it easier to scrap crap teachers but good teachers are not rewarded as they should be. Gove talks constantly about having a 'world-class' education system but how are you going to get that when you make the job so bloody unappealing, take away the perks that did exist, increase workload and introduce a laughably poor curriculum which, by the way, you don't actually need to follow. I'm not anti-Tory by any means but this guy is a ****ing liablity yet people laud him simply because he's not scared to make reforms - history will prove his tenure to be diasatrous, I'm certain of that. Also, (while I'm on a rant) I can understand those people who are annoyed at being inconvenienced today (I'm not a fan of striking) but I ask you what price you'd pay for your child to have a better education?
fleckneymike Posted 1 October 2013 Posted 1 October 2013 For balance I must point out that it is an absolutely cracking job and most days it doesn't feel like work. With reference to an earlier point it is not so much the restrictive nature of the curriculum which I object to but rather the way certain teaching styles are pushed and promoted and anyone who deviates from them are punished and forced to conform. Things like 'group work', discovery based learning, learning styles, PLTS etc are all snake oil yet if you fail to perform like a seal and show these 'skills' in your lesson you could find yourself in a lot of trouble. OFSTED are to blame for this as the pressure to get 'good' (satisfactory no longer exists) or 'outstanding' (quite how everyone can be outstanding is beyond me) mean progressive ideas are pushed and promoted.
Tielemans63 Posted 1 October 2013 Posted 1 October 2013 For balance I must point out that it is an absolutely cracking job and most days it doesn't feel like work. With reference to an earlier point it is not so much the restrictive nature of the curriculum which I object to but rather the way certain teaching styles are pushed and promoted and anyone who deviates from them are punished and forced to conform. Things like 'group work', discovery based learning, learning styles, PLTS etc are all snake oil yet if you fail to perform like a seal and show these 'skills' in your lesson you could find yourself in a lot of trouble. OFSTED are to blame for this as the pressure to get 'good' (satisfactory no longer exists) or 'outstanding' (quite how everyone can be outstanding is beyond me) mean progressive ideas are pushed and promoted. I totally agree with you about conformity. There's a myth perpetuated that OFSTED like to see teachers take risks but everything about modern teaching tries to minimise risk by promoting uniformity - certainly in my experience anyway. Over the last couple of years I've seen some cracking teachers who have achieved great results over many years, pressured into quitting because their methods don't tally with what the school think OFSTED will want to see. It's not the school's fault, fail an OFSTED inspection and you're ****ed - they have far too much power. There definitely needs to be a 'watchdog' but they shouldn't dictate the climate.
Rincewind Posted 1 October 2013 Posted 1 October 2013 My brother was a teacher for a few years. Searted off in London at a rough school. He taught maths and actually got kids to volunteer to stay after school for extra lessons. Once he was confronted by a parent who did not like 'Johnny' being given detention until he was told the reason was the abusive language. The lad got a slap around the ear from his dad. In the later years he had progressed to Deputy Head in a school in the Lake District. He was responsible for preparing the curriculum for the upcoming term. He packed in when he was overlooked for head in favour of an outsider female. He believed it was more to do with PC than qualifications. Anyway it was about then he was progressing in the hotel business. My sister-in-law does marking for exam boards. She was a junior school teacher. They met at college.
fleckneymike Posted 1 October 2013 Posted 1 October 2013 I totally agree with you about conformity. There's a myth perpetuated that OFSTED like to see teachers take risks but everything about modern teaching tries to minimise risk by promoting uniformity - certainly in my experience anyway. There is a man called OldAndrew on twitter. Follow him. He is cantankerous but he exposes myths about supposed 'good' teaching. I'm not completely anti Gove, some of his policies I agree with, some I don't. What I think harms us as a profession is that all too often the debate about teaching boils down to pro or anti Gove and that really doesn't help. Likewise Wilshaw says some sensible things, sadly OFSTED is staffed by consultants who benefit from pushing progressive and trendy teaching techniques as they can then charge through the nose for bespoke courses their consultancy firm offers. The recent clarity to 'progress over time' hopefully means we can put the mini white boards away.
BoneDog Posted 1 October 2013 Posted 1 October 2013 If things carry on at this rate, then the only people who will want to teach are the kind of people who you do not want to be teachers. We will have a small coiterie of super-talented people but the bi-product is that we will have millions of people with no transferrable skills but they'll know all about 16th Century Britain. I don't like to sound like a conspiracy nut, but the two lines I've quoted are all part of the masterplan. STRIKE ON FELLAS!
BoneDog Posted 2 October 2013 Posted 2 October 2013 With reference to an earlier point it is not so much the restrictive nature of the curriculum which I object to but rather the way certain teaching styles are pushed and promoted and anyone who deviates from them are punished and forced to conform. Things like 'group work', discovery based learning, learning styles, PLTS etc are all snake oil yet if you fail to perform like a seal and show these 'skills' in your lesson you could find yourself in a lot of trouble. OFSTED are to blame for this as the pressure to get 'good' (satisfactory no longer exists) or 'outstanding' (quite how everyone can be outstanding is beyond me) mean progressive ideas are pushed and promoted. Check out this quote from a Gatto book, you seem to have his kind of thinking on the matter! - "Teachers are agents...they sell ritual procedures and memorization as ‘Science’ to kids who will never know any better. A different kind of teacher would set out to help kids design original experiments, test hypotheses, predict from theory, search for truth. Imagine millions of children unleashed to follow the road to discovery in millions of uniquely personal ways, a breathtaking image. Of course, any teacher who really did that would be hunted down like a wild animal and shot.â€
BoneDog Posted 2 October 2013 Posted 2 October 2013 a question to the teachers on here. do you believe that education would improve if we de-centralised it? Teachers aswell as pupils are individuals and many will have their own ideas and means of producing best results. If teachers had less constraints and the schooling environment was more flexible and allowed individual teachers to work with different pupils in different ways then the general population would benefit I should think.
Haydos Posted 2 October 2013 Posted 2 October 2013 Soome serious clowns with uninformed opinions in this thread.
ronnup Posted 2 October 2013 Posted 2 October 2013 a question to the teachers on here. do you believe that education would improve if we de-centralised it? as in instead of having the central authority dictate how things should work, each individual school was given a greater control over how they teach and what they teach. coupled with a belgian style funding with the money being tied to each child, I think this would be an improvement. it gives parents a greater freedom of choice and it allows individual schools the freedom to try out new ideas and different ways of teaching. and if anyone has read my previous posts in other threads you'll know I have a ron jeremy size hard-on for freedom I'm sure it would work brilliantly. In affluent areas. And not so brilliantly in not so affluent areas.
Parafox Posted 2 October 2013 Posted 2 October 2013 Soome serious clowns with uninformed opinions in this thread. Just THIS thread??
Guest MattP Posted 2 October 2013 Posted 2 October 2013 Just THIS thread?? Because you are just brimming with ideas and advice to solve the World's problems.
Parafox Posted 2 October 2013 Posted 2 October 2013 Because you are just brimming with ideas and advice to solve the World's problems. I take it we're no longer lovers?
Guest MattP Posted 2 October 2013 Posted 2 October 2013 I take it we're no longer lovers? I love everyone.
Parafox Posted 2 October 2013 Posted 2 October 2013 I love everyone. So now you're cheating on me as well?
Phube Posted 2 October 2013 Posted 2 October 2013 How about a better way of striking, without punishing the pupils (or their parents who may have to forgo a days pay)... If as we are to believer ALL Teachers work above and beyond their contracted hours and never have any free time. Why not have a mass 'work to rule' for a month or so. Just do what your contract says, no more, no less. The kids still get educated, the parents are happy and then maybe everyone will notice how bad things are when teachers don't do all those little extras. It'd be win-win-win!? Just a thought...
AoWW Posted 2 October 2013 Posted 2 October 2013 There is a man called OldAndrew on twitter. Follow him. He is cantankerous but he exposes myths about supposed 'good' teaching. I'm not completely anti Gove, some of his policies I agree with, some I don't. What I think harms us as a profession is that all too often the debate about teaching boils down to pro or anti Gove and that really doesn't help. Likewise Wilshaw says some sensible things, sadly OFSTED is staffed by consultants who benefit from pushing progressive and trendy teaching techniques as they can then charge through the nose for bespoke courses their consultancy firm offers. The recent clarity to 'progress over time' hopefully means we can put the mini white boards away. Never expected to find another OldAndrew fan on FT! How about a better way of striking, without punishing the pupils (or their parents who may have to forgo a days pay)... If as we are to believer ALL Teachers work above and beyond their contracted hours and never have any free time. Why not have a mass 'work to rule' for a month or so. Just do what your contract says, no more, no less. The kids still get educated, the parents are happy and then maybe everyone will notice how bad things are when teachers don't do all those little extras. It'd be win-win-win!? Just a thought... This would be a good idea imo - can't believe I didn't think of it.
fleckneymike Posted 2 October 2013 Posted 2 October 2013 How about a better way of striking, without punishing the pupils (or their parents who may have to forgo a days pay)... If as we are to believer ALL Teachers work above and beyond their contracted hours and never have any free time. Why not have a mass 'work to rule' for a month or so. Just do what your contract says, no more, no less. The kids still get educated, the parents are happy and then maybe everyone will notice how bad things are when teachers don't do all those little extras. It'd be win-win-win!? Just a thought... If we genuinely worked to rule the kids wouldn't get taught. I am allocated 3 hrs a week to plan and mark (well technically it's 1 hr), in those 3 hrs I am supposedly able to plan 17 hours of teaching and mark 10 classes work. If someone can invent a way of planning 17 lessons and marking between 200 and 250 books, essays, blogs etc in just 3 hours you'd be a millionaire over night. There was an attempt to work to rule last year by quite a few unions but they've got us over a barrel with ofsted as you are rated on your marking over time. A poor observation and you have 2 weeks to improve else you're placed on 'competency' and face the sack within the year. Likewise the backlog of controlled assessment marking (coursework in old money) would be counterproductive and you'd never catch up. Striking is not something we do lightly but sometimes it's our only option (no matter how futile or inconvenient others may view it).
AoWW Posted 2 October 2013 Posted 2 October 2013 I have such an easy job, which is why I'm still planning lessons at gone midnight!
Rincewind Posted 3 October 2013 Posted 3 October 2013 Never expected to find another OldAndrew fan on FT! This would be a good idea imo - can't believe I didn't think of it. That is why you are a teacher.
Steven Posted 3 October 2013 Posted 3 October 2013 I have such an easy job, which is why I'm still planning lessons at gone midnight! Part-timer.
The People's Hero Posted 3 October 2013 Posted 3 October 2013 You're not a business man nor a banker but you're an expert on those. What about parents? Are they allowed an opinion? Only the virtuous struggling unemployed parents. The working scum who have embraced the evil capitalist regime should have no say. Vile immoral selfish spineless traitors.
DennisNedry Posted 3 October 2013 Posted 3 October 2013 The annoying thing about public sector workers including teachers is that they seem to think that they deserve to keep their pay/pensions etc at the expense of everybody working in the private sector. I'd take 20k a year if that meant I got the amount of holiday they do... what is it? Like 12 weeks a year?
absolutelegend Posted 3 October 2013 Posted 3 October 2013 people who don't think teachers work extremely hard are bonkers. i earn prob 3x what my mrs does (who's a teacher), but she works far harder, most nights she works until gone 9, and at least a full day of the weekend. However, I understand not all teachers put in this level of effort. when it comes to striking, I'm generally against it in principle. I don't like the fact that striking only works for a minority of jobs, and I don't like the role that the unions play. I feel it unfair that teachers are basicially told that they have to become full paying members of unions, whether they agree with the politics of the unions or not. My personal view is that the unions are the problem here, not the teachers.
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