IDS not attending debate on 'bedroom tax' in Parliment

[AoWW]

So parafox can give me whatever unprovoked insult he likes in several threads and I have my polite, sensible reply deleted? Great use of forum rules, mods.

Actually fvck all this. Pointless posting here anymore.

 

It wasn't a polite, sensible reply - it was a dig at Parafox's family which, in my opinion, is completely unnecessary and pretty disgusting. 

 

You won't be missed by many, I'm sure. 

 

Matt - the insult was deleted, hence why you can't see it!

[Guest MattP]

It wasn't a polite, sensible reply - it was a dig at Parafox's family which, in my opinion, is completely unnecessary and pretty disgusting. 

 

You won't be missed by many, I'm sure. 

 

Matt - the insult was deleted, hence why you can't see it!

 

Fair enough.

 

The first insult/name calling was thrown by Parafox though.

[cambridgefox]

 

, You'd need some extra peripheral characters though .

Webbo could be the busy body next door neighbour constantly complaining about the noise ,   AoWW could be the seductive love interest creating a rivalry and Finners could play the vicar who often visits for tea. 

 

I'll play the frustrated officer at the job seeker centre 

 

i think we're onto a winner here

  

With Moosey and Rincewind? It's enough to give me nightmares.

 

Ewwwww

I know her washing line wouldn't be safe,but I suppose I shouldn't judge others on how I act!

[purpleronnie]

Forget all this arguing, let's all have sexy time, I have a bedroom that's free.

 

Who's with me?

[AoWW]

Fair enough.

 

The first insult/name calling was thrown by Parafox though.

 

I don't have too much off an issue with name-calling. Most people on here ought to be big enough to deal with that and, let's face it, some threads on FT become little more that one big playground slanging match. I do have an issue with bringing someone's family into it, though. I draw a line and Moose crossed it. Simple really. 

[Guest MattP]

I don't have too much off an issue with name-calling. Most people on here ought to be big enough to deal with that and, let's face it, some threads on FT become little more that one big playground slanging match. I do have an issue with bringing someone's family into it, though. I draw a line and Moose crossed it. Simple really. 

 

Not going to argue with that, one of the reasons I fell out with someone on here a while back was jibes towards family members.

[Finnegan]

I'm sorry but if you're going to keep skimming over very good explanations of why it's a flawed idea in practice whilst just rehashing the same claims that it's a good idea in principal then you ARE an idiot.

I'm capable of fairly reasoned debate, I rarely opt for name calling with you Matt, but it's fairly obvious Parafox didn't actually offend you and you're opting for the faux moral outrage in lieu of an actual rebuttal.

You are being deliberately obtuse (nicer way of saying wilfully stupid) and his slur wasn't far off, regardless of whether it was necessary. This is a football forum not a nunnery.

[Guest MattP]

I'm sorry but if you're going to keep skimming over very good explanations of why it's a flawed idea in practice whilst just rehashing the same claims that it's a good idea in principal then you ARE an idiot.

I'm capable of fairly reasoned debate, I rarely opt for name calling with you Matt, but it's fairly obvious Parafox didn't actually offend you and you're opting for the faux moral outrage in lieu of an actual rebuttal.

You are being deliberately obtuse (nicer way of saying wilfully stupid) and his slur wasn't far off, regardless of whether it was necessary. This is a football forum not a nunnery.

 

We don't get that in political threads these days, it's one of the good things about the place and I think it should be stopped whoever does it, it lowers the tone for starters. He didn't offend me, but their was no need to start name calling at MB for having a reasoned different opinion.

 

We've all seen Shawshank Redemption as well, I don't think anyone needs obtuse explaining in 2013.

[James.]

Has anyone actually got any official figures on how many people would need smaller houses and how many smaller houses are available?

[Finnegan]

MB doesn't have a reasoned opinion, he thinks poor people should wash cars in the street and group together in poor houses so nice middle class people can have cheaper houses. It's, at best, cheeky trolling and being called an idiot for it is hardly surprising.

Also, this is the same MB that frequently starts slinging insults (usually fairly personal ones) before everyone else and lauds the days of being able to abuse the shit out of everyone on some Men's Health forum elsewhere on the internet. Let's not sit defending him like he's some sensitive soul.

Do unto others, mh?

As for explaining the word obtuse in 2013? Eh, it's a football forum not a nunnery.

[Guest MattP]

Of course MB isn't completely innocent, he didn't do anything untoward for me in this one though.

 

We may see the return of Bunk Moreland now.

[Guest MattP]

[Captain...]

Well some have moved so it is working, those that have moved will have saved us money, it's not ust about housing, as absolute legend says this should be a kick up the arse for people to move in with family and friends if they can, we have spare rooms that need to be filled before we can start using spare houses.

 

What's the point of more Social housing anyway while we are in the EU and will come under their freedom of movement policy? Completely pointless while we are going to be opening up borders to countries with a average wage in a month less than ours is in a week, you'd just be encouraging more mass unskilled migration.

 

So you admit it is not about housing people, or even making money (because it won't) it is just about punishing scroungers?

[Captain...]

Has anyone actually got any official figures on how many people would need smaller houses and how many smaller houses are available?

 

Here are some:

 

 

The National Housing Federation suggests there are 180,000 social housing tenants underoccupying two-bedroom homes in England, yet fewer than 70,000 one-bedroom properties are available.

From 1 April, anyone living in social housing who has one unoccupied bedroom will have their housing benefit cut by 14%, rising to 25% for households with two spare bedrooms.

Iain Sim, the chief executive of Coast and Country Housing in Teesside, said he faced serious problems rehousing people. With less than a month until the new rules come into force, Sim has demanded "a radical rethink".

Sim believes the housing benefits bill for his local authority, Redcar and Cleveland, will actually rise by almost half a million pounds annually, as a severe shortage of one-bedroom social housing properties in the area will force residents into more expensive private renting.

There are currently 1,800 Coast and Country Housing tenants classed as underoccupying, 760 of whom are sole occupiers. But the housing association has only two one-bed properties available to let. If those 1,800 tenants were to find housing in the private sector, where rent is considerably higher, "the housing benefits bill in Redcar and Cleveland alone would rise by £450,000", said Sim.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/mar/08/bedroom-tax-shortage-small-homes

[Strokes]

Why don't they privately rent and claim housing benefit if the shortage is so bad? Is it too much to ask them to search for themselves?

[Zingari]

Has anyone actually got any official figures on how many people would need smaller houses and how many smaller houses are available?

Good question , but imo It's not just the numbers of houses that may or may not be available on paper though . Surely people can envisage that it's not very practical to keep uprooting families for every change in circumstance throughout their life . Moving home is both costly and very stressful especially for families with  young children . 

 

Surely it would be easier build a few more smaller houses and have some slack in the system first and  then use a carrot approach rather than the big stick to encourage the freeing up too big homes.  

[ADK]

I don't think this scheme is designed to save a lot of money, rather it is designed to make life harder for the poor.

[Zingari]

I don't think this scheme is designed to save a lot of money, rather it is designed to make life harder for the poor.

quite so , i'm starting to believe this too 

[Jon the Hat]

Whether this is the right system or not, you cannot argue that people in social housing should get to keep their house for life regardless of changes in circumstances.  This is not just about money, it is about creating mobility, and ultimately space in a limited number of properties.  The savings are in not building another 2million houses.

[Zingari]

Whether this is the right system or not, you cannot argue that people in social housing should get to keep their house for life regardless of changes in circumstances.  This is not just about money, it is about creating mobility, and ultimately space in a limited number of properties.  The savings are in not building another 2million houses.

 

Wtf is all this talk of mobiliy ? What about stability in families? Or  are we intended to become a nation of gipsies constantly moving around ?

Surely building more houses creates jobs etc and the rental income would pay for them in future years ,

[Webbo]

Labour introduced this scheme for people in private rented accommodation while they were in power, I don't remember any of this fuss then.

[Zingari]

Labour introduced this scheme for people in private rented accommodation while they were in power, I don't remember any of this fuss then.

Are you saying that tenants affected by this are only pretending to be suffering hardships and only annoyed because it's a tory policy ?

[Captain...]

Labour introduced this scheme for people in private rented accommodation while they were in power, I don't remember any of this fuss then.

 

Do you have the details of this scheme? I don't remember it, but if they were financially penalising the poorest for not moving when there was nowhere to move to I would have the same objections to it, and it confirms a long held belief that they are all as bad as each other.

[Webbo]

are you saying that tenants affected by this are only pretending to be annoyed because it's a tory policy ?

No, but maybe some of the people offended on their behalf are. Every disadvantage that these  tenants are suffering could apply equally to those in private rented accommodation but nobody said it was done for spite against poor people then.

[Captain...]

Whether this is the right system or not, you cannot argue that people in social housing should get to keep their house for life regardless of changes in circumstances.  This is not just about money, it is about creating mobility, and ultimately space in a limited number of properties.  The savings are in not building another 2million houses.

 

I think if a single person in a 2 bedroom flat is offered a suitable one bedroom flat, then he should take it or take in a flat mate or pay the for the privilege, but it has to be suitable to their needs.