Deucalion Posted 16 November 2013 Posted 16 November 2013 Has anyone said that the only way to judge a manager is by their win percentage? I don't think they have. Win percentages give an indication of how well a manager has done, but like all statistics, need to be considered in context. For instance, Martin Allen's 50% has to be considered in the context of him only being manager for 4 games, likewise Chris Powell and Allan Evans's 100%. Martin O'Neill won two League Cups and had four consecutive top 10 finishes in the Premier League, which are notable achievements regardless of a mediocre win percentage. However, two periods as manager, both of over 100 games, with a win percentage of around 50%, is a notable statistic and suggests that Pearson is a very successful manager for us. Anyone who denies this must have an anti-Pearson agenda.
inckley fox Posted 16 November 2013 Posted 16 November 2013 Has anyone said that the only way to judge a manager is by their win percentage? I don't think they have. Win percentages give an indication of how well a manager has done, but like all statistics, need to be considered in context. For instance, Martin Allen's 50% has to be considered in the context of him only being manager for 4 games, likewise Chris Powell and Allan Evans's 100%. Martin O'Neill won two League Cups and had four consecutive top 10 finishes in the Premier League, which are notable achievements regardless of a mediocre win percentage. However, two periods as manager, both of over 100 games, with a win percentage of around 50%, is a notable statistic and suggests that Pearson is a very successful manager for us. Anyone who denies this must have an anti-Pearson agenda. Similar statistics suggest that Sven was a 'very successful manager for us', more successful than O'Neill in fact, and would be wrong. It is, I maintain, like looking at a corner tally on its own and saying 'it suggests we won the game' when, in fact, we didn't. The results that count where these two managers are concerned are promotions, rather than matches won. This is the context we have to place such statistics in. What shows Pearson was a successful manager in his first spell was promotion from League One. What will or won't show him to be successful in his second is promotion to the Premiership.
Strokes Posted 16 November 2013 Posted 16 November 2013 Is it me or do 10 games appear to be missing from the record?
Happy Fox Posted 16 November 2013 Posted 16 November 2013 NP can be a great manager he has all the tools he needs if he delivers promotion and a cup who knows could be possible as we are only 3 games away from the Final, then he will be 2nd in the list of managers I have seen in my life time, behind MON but I think he has potential to supersede him, it is up to him this season is very defining because fail to deliver and I don't see him getting a better club than us.
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 16 November 2013 Posted 16 November 2013 Based on achievements, level played at and length of time at that level the best managers in my time are Gillies and MON. Exactly the same for me. Matt was a real gentleman. Lovely man.
Guest Col city fan Posted 16 November 2013 Posted 16 November 2013 Win averages are, of course, an important indicator of a manager doing well, or conversely poorly, at a club. HOWEVER, where the 'men stand out from the boys' so to speak is in the importance of the games won. Winning at home to Barnsley is one thing. Winning in a play-off semi final is something completely different. Unfortunately, this is where Nige has fallen short so far. In those games that really meant something, over two legs, he and we have failed, twice. Success and failure at this level are measured in millimetres. Let's all hope that, third time round, we come good at the finale.
Happy Fox Posted 16 November 2013 Posted 16 November 2013 Gillies it seems was very unfortunate could of won more trophies I just hope in my lifetime that I will see city win the FA cup we can f**king do it.
davieG Posted 16 November 2013 Posted 16 November 2013 Gillies it seems was very unfortunate could of won more trophies I just hope in my lifetime that I will see city win the FA cup we can f**king do it. 50 years of hurt never stopped me dreaming.
Deucalion Posted 16 November 2013 Posted 16 November 2013 Similar statistics suggest that Sven was a 'very successful manager for us', more successful than O'Neill in fact, and would be wrong. It is, I maintain, like looking at a corner tally on its own and saying 'it suggests we won the game' when, in fact, we didn't. The results that count where these two managers are concerned are promotions, rather than matches won. This is the context we have to place such statistics in. What shows Pearson was a successful manager in his first spell was promotion from League One. What will or won't show him to be successful in his second is promotion to the Premiership. I don't agree with this second paragraph. Even if we again fail to win promotion this season and Pearson departs, for me he has still had a successful period here. He has come much, much closer than any other manager since Micky Adams to actually achieving that promotion. Win averages are, of course, an important indicator of a manager doing well, or conversely poorly, at a club. HOWEVER, where the 'men stand out from the boys' so to speak is in the importance of the games won. Winning at home to Barnsley is one thing. Winning in a play-off semi final is something completely different. Unfortunately, this is where Nige has fallen short so far. In those games that really meant something, over two legs, he and we have failed, twice. Success and failure at this level are measured in millimetres. Let's all hope that, third time round, we come good at the finale. I can see your point here but so far Pearson has only 'failed' at the playoff stage as many times as Brian Little. Admittedly Little failed at the final stage while Pearson has not yet got us to a final. The point being, with hindsight, the vast majority have a lot of respect for what Little achieved in his time here.
Heart-Shaped Fox Posted 16 November 2013 Posted 16 November 2013 Win averages dont always mean too much, look at MON's wasnt that great as we were in the Prem, doesnt mean it makes success. But NP is certainly doing a good job here thats for sure, his record in the league is excellent really.
Fox92 Posted 16 November 2013 Posted 16 November 2013 Gillies it seems was very unfortunate could of won more trophies I just hope in my lifetime that I will see city win the FA cup we can f**king do it. Yes, so do I. Would love that day.
Strokes Posted 16 November 2013 Posted 16 November 2013 The stats are not correct, pearson played 106, won 52, drew 24, lost 20. How can that be right, what happend in the 10 missing games?
The Doctor Posted 16 November 2013 Posted 16 November 2013 The stats are not correct, pearson played 106, won 52, drew 24, lost 20. How can that be right, what happend in the 10 missing games? Cup games, and cup wins don't count.
Strokes Posted 16 November 2013 Posted 16 November 2013 Cup games, and cup wins don't count. If they cant tally up the games, im not paying attention to the rest of the stats.
hackneyfox Posted 16 November 2013 Posted 16 November 2013 Little won over the semis and eventually got us promoted. MON did it one season and then managed in the Premier. Bloomfield managed a team in the top division. I didn't see an MG side. When NFP gets us promoted and his Premier stats match then he'll be up there with one of the above.
Deucalion Posted 16 November 2013 Posted 16 November 2013 Little won over the semis and eventually got us promoted. MON did it one season and then managed in the Premier. Bloomfield managed a team in the top division. I didn't see an MG side. When NFP gets us promoted and his Premier stats match then he'll be up there with one of the above. I'm personally not saying he is up there with O'Neill, who is the only one of those mentioned I can remember. He is approaching Brian Little though, all he needs to do is get us promoted and do a better job of keeping us there than Little did.
Strokes Posted 16 November 2013 Posted 16 November 2013 I'm personally not saying he is up there with O'Neill, who is the only one of those mentioned I can remember. He is approaching Brian Little though, all he needs to do is get us promoted and do a better job of keeping us there than Little did. Little didnt finish the job in the prem, so im not sure what you mean.
Deucalion Posted 17 November 2013 Posted 17 November 2013 Little didnt finish the job in the prem, so im not sure what you mean. As a second flight manager, Pearson shows all signs of surpassing Little, all he needs to do is actually get us promoted. Little didn't finish the job, but we were hardly convincing while we were there with Little were we? I did not get the feeling we were going to stay up long before he left. I think Pearson has had more financial freedom, until this season anyway, than Little did. Also, Pearson will be in a much stronger position to strengthen should we go up, so in some ways, there can be no comparison if we do go up. I do think he has laid strong foundations for a long stay in the Premier League though, and this should be Pearson's measure. I suppose if we are going to compare Pearson with anyone, it should be with Little in his third year here.
sylofox Posted 17 November 2013 Posted 17 November 2013 In my life time our worst three manager Mcklintock Pleat and Taylor. But taylor and pleats records don't look that bad. Pleats football was shite at best. And how did taylor take us down falling just short of MoN.
sylofox Posted 17 November 2013 Posted 17 November 2013 On that can we get Powell and Stowell back. Promotion. prem league. champions league a cert Common City
Deucalion Posted 17 November 2013 Posted 17 November 2013 In my life time our worst three manager Mcklintock Pleat and Taylor. But taylor and pleats records don't look that bad. Pleats football was shite at best. And how did taylor take us down falling just short of MoN. My memory of it is,the further away from O'Neill's era and the more Taylor stamped his authority on the club, the worse we got. We actually had a cracking start to Taylor's time as manager. We were top for a while and running near the top for half a season. Then, we were beaten by Wycombe in the FA Cup and hardly won a game after that if I remember rightly.
Guest Col city fan Posted 17 November 2013 Posted 17 November 2013 My memory of it is,the further away from O'Neill's era and the more Taylor stamped his authority on the club, the worse we got. We actually had a cracking start to Taylor's time as manager. We were top for a while and running near the top for half a season. Then, we were beaten by Wycombe in the FA Cup and hardly won a game after that if I remember rightly. Spot on. Taylor's signings were generally poor, just took some time to demonstrate how poor they were. Taylor wasted an incredible amount of money for back then. Mostly the revenue got for Heskey went on the likes of Akinbiyi and Lee Marshall. I remember being top of the table thinking 'How the Hell are we top of the table'? The writing was on the wall really and the fear that losing MON would result in calamity, became reality.
Corky Posted 17 November 2013 Posted 17 November 2013 My memory of it is,the further away from O'Neill's era and the more Taylor stamped his authority on the club, the worse we got. We actually had a cracking start to Taylor's time as manager. We were top for a while and running near the top for half a season. Then, we were beaten by Wycombe in the FA Cup and hardly won a game after that if I remember rightly. Usually managers improve when they get their own players in and move the players already there out of the club. Taylor did the reverse with serious, long-term consequences for the club.
foxaholic Posted 17 November 2013 Posted 17 November 2013 Not forgetting Matt Gillies of course He managed 10 years in the top division and Pearson can in no way be compared
Deucalion Posted 17 November 2013 Posted 17 November 2013 He managed 10 years in the top division and Pearson can in no way be compared Not yet, but his career isn't over here and we don't know the end of the story yet. He already compares favourably with our second tier managers and while he has been at the club, he has broken long standing records. There's no reason to suppose he won't compare well with our top-flight managers, should he eventually get us promoted.
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