JFK , his life and legacy.

[Strokes]

So what's your theory Zing, on his assassination? Have you come to an opinion or are you simply not buying the official story & keeping an open mind?

I've heard all sorts of theories & protagonists, but I've not come to any conclusions. I would love to find out for sure one day though. If someone who 100% knows the events of that day was to step forward & give the definitive explanation for his death, I don't believe it would be accepted. People would still look to pick holes & we would end up going around in circles again.

Was it the CIA, the Mafia, Castro, the Russians, LBJ, anti-Castro Cubans, an accidental shooting, the Federal Reserve Bank.......have I left anyone out?

Do you have a leaning towards one particular theory over any other?

You left out, was it even him who was shot?

[pSinatra]

You left out, was it even him who was shot?

 

You're right.  He could have used a lookalike & fled to a remote Polynesian island surrounded by naked women in grass skirts.  He died doing what he loved......on the job.

[Strokes]

You're right. He could have used a lookalike & fled to a remote Polynesian island surrounded by naked women in grass skirts. He died doing what he loved......on the job.

With jacko and tupac obviously.

[ousefox]

I know it was Ted but I've always wondered how the hell he actually got away with the Chappaquiddik incident. Crazy.

 

Am I right in thinking there will be a lot of documents coming out on JFK as they are released 50 years later or am I making that up?

[surrifox]

i'm not sure if that is true , but did he also order his own bodyguards to stand down from the rear of the car ? 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6OWcujJSCU

yes that is a detail I only learned about recently- the bodyguard/wingman/ outrider would have been in the line of fire-but they are trained never to leave the side of the Pres and to take a bullet if necessary they didn't go AWOL - just dropped back some distance LBJ mentioned this straight afterwards (he may have feared that he would be caught up in a conspiracy to kill him too or he may have been involved in some way)

[surrifox]

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/pearl/www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6315/jfk.html

here you go conspiracy theories and circumstantial tittle tattle

[yorkie1999]

Watched a documentary with an interesting take on his assassination. They claimed that oswald had 2 shots and one of the security guys in a car behind accidently  fired a rifle that he had grabbed from the car he was in which is why they didn't want an autopsy straight away.

[johnny the fox]

Not necessarily. Only a few people would need to know the full story.

 

Besides, who's kept their mouth shut?  Plenty of witnesses to various things around the incident have come out with contradictory statements and things that don't add up. Officials, doctors, etc.

 

Loads of evidence has been hidden or destroyed, loads of things weren't done by the book.

 

The way the authorities said he was shot, by one gunman, and the trajectory of the bullets, is pretty much impossible.

 

Also, where Oswald was arrested doesn't add up with where he supposed to be when the shooting happened, and the aftermath.

 

Then he's just randomly shot by some mafia dude. Cos that just happens.....

 

And that's just the basics.

 

yeh right.

You obviously haven't seen the new up to date investigations by independent people who have analysed the so called magic bullet ,and with proper science they  have proved the second bullet did go through kennedy's throat and into connoly's back..  oswald worked on the sixth floor, and he was arrested in the cinema  after shooting officer tippet and being seen by a witness doing so.... it was his gun that killed the officer   , he had it on him when he was  arrested. it was his rifle that was found on the sixth floor.

[johnny the fox]

Watched a documentary with an interesting take on his assassination. They claimed that oswald had 2 shots and one of the security guys in a car behind accidently  fired a rifle that he had grabbed from the car he was in which is why they didn't want an autopsy straight away.

saw that.. its a theory.. but can't be proved. but it would explain a cover up..the secret service would look like right cants if it was proved he was shot and killed by  cock up    by one of their own agents.

[Smudge]

He could of had the glass roof on the limo..but he ordered it to be removed.. thus putting his trust (and his life) in the hands of his fellow man. A fatal error, and that is a legacy WE all could learn from. don't trust anybody, its inevitable they will let you fookin down in the end. a tragic trueness of the human condition.

Not according to Jim Lehrer, now a PBS anchorman but was a reporter for the Dallas Times Herald at the time.

 The full interview is here

 

JIM LEHRER: Well, I was haunted by the events of that day.

And it had to do with the bubble top. I -- we had an open telephone line with our rewrite desk at The Times Herald, because it was -- the Kennedys were coming in to Dallas right on our deadline. And they wanted to keep the story updated and all of that.

And just before the cars -- I mean, the airplane was to arrive, Air Force One was to arrive at Love Field, the rewrite man said to me, is the bubble top going to be up? And I said, well, I couldn't any see. Anyhow, to make a long story short, I went down to the ramp where they had the cars parked. And I could see the bubble top was up on -- there were six cars. And one of them was the presidential limousine.

And I saw the bubble top was up. So I said to the Secret Service agent, you know, our rewrite wants to know, are you going to leave the bubble top up? The reason the bubble top was up was because it had been raining that morning in Dallas. But now it was clear.

And he said, well, it's clear here. And he -- anyhow, he hollered at an agent to find out if it was clear downtown. And the agent said in his two-way radio, clear downtown. So the agent then looks at the other agents and says, lose the bubble top.

But what happened for me was, the agent who made this decision and who had talked to me, I ran in to him at midnight that night after the assassination had occurred in the Dallas police station. And he had been in a meeting. And he came out of the meeting. And I was standing there.

And he came over to me and said, tears in his eyes, said, oh, Jim if I just hadn't taken the bubble top down, the theory being that if the bubble top had been up, even though it wasn't bulletproof, it would have -- could have deflected the shot. Oswald might not even have taken the shots, because it could have been an expectation that it was bulletproof.

[johnny the fox]

Not according to Jim Lehrer, now a PBS anchorman but was a reporter for the Dallas Times Herald at the time.

 The full interview is here

I think the president would have the final say on that, after all it was his and his mrs safety, Im sure if he had demanded it to go on it would have been.. I know I would.

[Smudge]

I think the president would have the final say on that, after all it was his and his mrs safety, Im sure if he had demanded it to go on it would have been.. I know I would.

Maybe but I don't get that inference from the interview. I saw the interview on TV last week and that's why I responded, as it struck me as something the agent regretted and it was his fault.

 

As I understand it, the Secret Service is totally responsible for the President's well being and I have never got the impression that the President gives them orders on what to do. Apart from **** off before Angie, Marylin and Jane get here

[Zingari]

So what's your theory Zing, on his assassination?  Have you come to an opinion or are you simply not buying the official story & keeping an open mind?

 

I've heard all sorts of theories & protagonists, but I've not come to any conclusions.  I would love to find out for sure one day though.  If someone who 100% knows the events of  that day was to step forward & give the definitive explanation for his death, I don't believe it would be accepted.  People would still look to pick holes & we would end up going around in circles again.

 

Was it the CIA, the Mafia, Castro, the Russians, LBJ, anti-Castro Cubans, an accidental shooting, the Federal Reserve Bank.......have I left anyone out?

 

Do you have a leaning towards one particular theory over any other?

I've still pretty much got an open mind on it , but I really do struggle with the Warren Commission verdict of a single lone nut assassin , and the tragic accident theory seems highly implausible to me . 

The best theories I've heard tend to be structured arround the CIA who were under great threat from JFK after the bay of pigs fiasco . I think Dulles was still very influential even after he was sacked by JFK and somehow after JFK's death managed to be a part of the Warren Commission .(  that makes it look a bit odd to me , having a known enemy on the commission to look into his death)

 

I think rogue elements of the CIA  enlisted hit men from the mafia and anti Castro Cubans , both of which groups had become sworn enemies of the Kennedys . The hit teams were probably issued with fake security passes and took up various positions in Dealy Plaza . I doubt if each group knew about the other as both were being organised by the CIA .

 

But there are many other theories too , involving Presscott Bush , G H W Bush   , LBJ , Nixon,  Military Industial Complex  etc .

 Maybe the real story is some sort of composite involving these people as well.Maybe the complexity is the key to its continued secrecy inasmuch as so very few people know the complete picture and just playing small roles. I can say without doubt though , it's a feckin fascinating subject when you really get involved in it.  

 

 

I'm not offering this short vid as any further evidence , but just watch this speech by GHW Bush at Ford's funeral , watch what he does   when he talks of the deluded lone nut assassination .

 

It's like the official story is some sort of "in joke" to him

 

Yes , I find even little bits like this intriguing, saddo that I am 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_GZx45Zfmw

[...............]

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm Pretty much debunks every conspiracy theory. A lot to read though 

[Webbo]

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm Pretty much debunks every conspiracy theory. A lot to read though 

Says the man with no name. You don't fool me, you're in on it too.

[The Year Of The Fox]

JFK himself was the one who wanted the roof down on the proviso that the weather was going to be fine and that they wouldnt be travelling fast enough to ruin his wife's hair.

[Zingari]

One of the most credible witnesses still alive is the surgeon at Partland,  Doctor Robert McClelland, here's what he says about the wound . He has dealt with many gunshot trauma wounds.   

 

Because he was able to have a long and close look at Kennedy’s skull, McClelland, now 84, is possibly the most credible expert who openly questioned the conclusion by the Warren Commission that Kennedy was shot from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository by a lone gunman.

“I was about 18 inches above that wound. I got a better look at it than anybody in that room. It was way back in the back (of the head), which may lead to the thought that he was shot not only from the back, but also from the front,†McClelland said.

“In other words, there was more than one gunman, and therefore a conspiracy of some sort. And I looked into that wound for a long time, and there is no doubt what I saw,†he said.

McClelland felt his opinion was validated when he watched the famous home movie by Abraham Zapruder when it first aired on television in 1975.

“The first bullet hit him in the back, not in the front as we thought at the time,†he said. “Several seconds later, the second shot hits him and his head literally explodes, and he was thrown violently backward and to the left as you would expect someone hit by a high-caliber bullet from the front, not from above and behind.â€

To McClelland, who has seen a lot of bullet wounds throughout his medical career, there was never any other interpretation than that the second bullet hit Kennedy from the front and that the gaping hole he saw on the back of the head was an exit wound. “It would have had to come in from the picket fence on the grassy knoll, in my view of it,†he said.

 

http://www.timesdispatch.com/jfk/people/dr-bob-mcclelland-surgeon-tried-to-save-kennedy--/article_c0fba04b-097b-51d1-901a-f73204d8e4fb.html

[pSinatra]

 

One of the most credible witnesses still alive is the surgeon at Partland,  Doctor Robert McClelland, here's what he says about the wound . He has dealt with many gunshot trauma wounds.   

 

 

"back & to the left"

 

As soon as anyone mentions 'conspiracy theory' it tends to make people roll their eyes.  The Zapruder film is there for everyone to see.  We can speculate on the whos, wheres & whats.......but it begins with 'back & to the left'.

[lavrentis]

 

One of the most credible witnesses still alive is the surgeon at Partland,  Doctor Robert McClelland, here's what he says about the wound . He has dealt with many gunshot trauma wounds.   

 

Because he was able to have a long and close look at Kennedy’s skull, McClelland, now 84, is possibly the most credible expert who openly questioned the conclusion by the Warren Commission that Kennedy was shot from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository by a lone gunman.

“I was about 18 inches above that wound. I got a better look at it than anybody in that room. It was way back in the back (of the head), which may lead to the thought that he was shot not only from the back, but also from the front,†McClelland said.

“In other words, there was more than one gunman, and therefore a conspiracy of some sort. And I looked into that wound for a long time, and there is no doubt what I saw,†he said.

McClelland felt his opinion was validated when he watched the famous home movie by Abraham Zapruder when it first aired on television in 1975.

“The first bullet hit him in the back, not in the front as we thought at the time,†he said. “Several seconds later, the second shot hits him and his head literally explodes, and he was thrown violently backward and to the left as you would expect someone hit by a high-caliber bullet from the front, not from above and behind.â€

To McClelland, who has seen a lot of bullet wounds throughout his medical career, there was never any other interpretation than that the second bullet hit Kennedy from the front and that the gaping hole he saw on the back of the head was an exit wound. “It would have had to come in from the picket fence on the grassy knoll, in my view of it,†he said.

 

http://www.timesdispatch.com/jfk/people/dr-bob-mcclelland-surgeon-tried-to-save-kennedy--/article_c0fba04b-097b-51d1-901a-f73204d8e4fb.html

 

 

Reminds me of a clip I saw where the doctor and many other doctors saw JFK's cerebellum fall out onto the gurney as they were putting a tracheotomy in his neck.

 

As soon as the US government released the photos, oh no their eyes were wrong and so they changed their public story

[Guest ttfn]

Am watching a documentary called "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" on YouTube.

It's a long old slog but it's good stuff. Not sure how much, if any, of it I believe.

[Zingari]

Am watching a documentary called "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" on YouTube.

It's a long old slog but it's good stuff. Not sure how much, if any, of it I believe.

TMWKK is an excellent series of documentaries . Make sure you get to see episodes 6 to 9 which are banned in the USA . 

[Guest ttfn]

TMWKK is an excellent series of documentaries . Make sure you get to see episodes 6 to 9 which are banned in the USA .

I had episodes 2-6 on in the background at work today. Last 3 tomorrow. I'm curious to see how it comes together because a lot of the theories they posit seem to be contradictory.

[Zingari]

I had episodes 2-6 on in the background at work today. Last 3 tomorrow. I'm curious to see how it comes together because a lot of the theories they posit seem to be contradictory.

Yes that's true , but that's the big problem with all conspiracy theories I'm afraid .

Too many people seem to want to present a nice gift wrapped package to the public of " what really happened"  and this invariably leads to some or all of the theory being destroyed due to some errors .

 

My personal preferences are for those that destroy the official line and Warren Commission theories rather than those that attempt the almost impossible task of formulating the definitive theory . 

 

hope you enjoy he last 3 episodes btw 

[foxfanazer]

Can anybody recommend any good documentaries on the assassination of JFK and the conspiracy theories please

[Rincewind]

Watched a documentary the other night. They concluded it was an accident shot by one of his security blokes in a car behind when he fumbled picking up his rifle after the first shot. Can't really be proved because he died a few years back so its all speculation. Friendly fire seems about right for the Americans though.