Nugent - " Leicester Boo Boys"

[Oxfordfox83]

Nugent hasn't been on top goalscoring form (as many have identified) since Feb, but this season his contributions in all but a couple of games have been significant. There have been numerous arguments about penalties and open play, but the total goals scored by the team is the only figure that counts. I don't care whether the only goalscorers are Konch and Moore, if we only score goal kicks, or indeed if we win every game 1-0. If we are judging by numbers, the only one that matters is the one to the left of our name in the table.

Lee, most of your posts are about improving the team we have and that is a positive ambition, but to make your point you are too critical of what we have. What we have is a very strong squad who play well together and are winning most of the games they play. We are now able to come from behind, to beat negative teams, to win when playing badly. We aren't winning comfortably as often, but we aren't losing as often either.

Young and ambitious is important, but some experienced heads are necessary as well. Nugent is one of the best forwards in the league, and one of the older heads in our team too. Should we go up, I'd argue we'd want him in the side for his experience in the PL and as a longstanding member of our side; should we not go up, and assuming he continues to perform as he has over the last 3 seasons, he's a top Championship striker and we want him in the team. Anyone similar we replace him with will cost as much, including players like Vaughan who I don't feel offers anything more.

Nigel has trimmed a lot of fat from the squad, and the high earners who weren't contributing enough have gone. People who want to see Nugent, Morgan and Kasper go are taking it too far. If we make it into the PL, and stay up, we'll evolve beyond some of the current players, but it's too soon to be saying they're not good enough.

[cityfanlee23]

Dear me. Compare the premiership records! You'll see that I've done so, and that's the only fair way to do so. Are you really that deluded that you can't see this?

Regardless of Vaughans age he was playing men's football at the time just because he's 16 it makes no odds, so that's another crap point you've made.

He might have been signed at 14 but didn't play until he was 16. Liam Moore was signed to us when he was 8!

 

 

Age doesnt make a difference? Oh please god no....

 

So you are trying to tell me that at 16 years old, they do not mature or improve anymore for their whole career?? and that david nugents 3 year experience gap has no relevance?

And that the fact they were divisions apart plays no part in a comparison? 

So you're implying if league 2 top goalscorer gets 30 and the premiership top goal scorer gets 29, the league 2 player is better Fantastic

 

So this means that nugent aged 16 at bury fc did not improve?

Or are you just taking that away from vaughan to back up your argument?

 

Vaughan was playing the premier league at 16, nugent was playing for a relegation candidate league 2 side with 3 years experience under his belt.

And you want to talk about records?

 

Quite pathetic bert, No common sense involved on your part, surprised anybody listens to your utter drivel.

 

so what you are doing effectively is putting up james vaughans 16-18 year old form up against david nugents premier league form aged 23+? and you say that the extra 5-7 years do not make a difference? what a joke 

 

So wayne rooney has not improved since his debut? and because him and van nistelrooy ended up playing to a similar standard, the fact rooney was only 17 was irrelevant, and he did not need to improve? Or shall we start comparing wayne rooneys record at 17 to van nistelrooys at 27?

 

 

Saying age doesnt make a difference is completely rediculous,

 

So a 16 year old playing for a top 4 premiership side making appearances is not better than a 19 year old in league 2?

 

Good job I am sat down.

[Carl the Llama]

I get the impression Lee's another fan who struggles to tell the difference between being a bad striker and not scoring a goal every match, or the difference between an unproven striker and a regular premiership starter.  Please stop digging, Lee.

[cityfanlee23]

I get the impression Lee's another fan who struggles to tell the difference between being a bad striker and not scoring a goal every match, or the difference between an unproven striker and a regular premiership starter.  Please stop digging, Lee.

 

Nothing to do with my ability to tell the difference, Nugent is proven championship standard,

 

Vaughan is proving himself that he can cut it aswell,

 

Nugent is a proven flop at premiership level, Vaughan has not been given the right opporunity in my eyes, he's improved since his everton days clearly....

he has 5 games for norwich and looked lively, before being injured and unfit.

[Manwell Pablo]

Age doesnt make a difference? Oh please god no....

 

So you are trying to tell me that at 16 years old, they do not mature or improve anymore for their whole career?? and that david nugents 3 year experience gap has no relevance?

And that the fact they were divisions apart plays no part in a comparison? 

So you're implying if league 2 top goalscorer gets 30 and the premiership top goal scorer gets 29, the league 2 player is better Fantastic

 

So this means that nugent aged 16 at bury fc did not improve?

Or are you just taking that away from vaughan to back up your argument?

 

Vaughan was playing the premier league at 16, nugent was playing for a relegation candidate league 2 side with 3 years experience under his belt.

And you want to talk about records?

 

Quite pathetic bert, No common sense involved on your part, surprised anybody listens to your utter drivel.

 

so what you are doing effectively is putting up james vaughans 16-18 year old form up against david nugents premier league form aged 23+? and you say that the extra 5-7 years do not make a difference? what a joke 

 

So wayne rooney has not improved since his debut? and because him and van nistelrooy ended up playing to a similar standard, the fact rooney was only 17 was irrelevant, and he did not need to improve? Or shall we start comparing wayne rooneys record at 17 to van nistelrooys at 27?

 

 

Saying age doesnt make a difference is completely rediculous,

 

So a 16 year old playing for a top 4 premiership side making appearances is not better than a 19 year old in league 2?

 

Good job I am sat down.

 

I actually think Wayne Rooney is arguable worse now than he was at 17, certainly 19/20.

[Bert]

They obviously thought he was good enough at 16 to play for a Prem team.... That's all I'm trying to say. Do you think people said "Go easy on James, he's only a kid" No. My argument is compare their records for the prem, simple as that. Nugent has flopped at premiership level after scoring more goals than Vaughan, whilst spending less time in the prem but only playing 12 more games, but Vaughan hasn't had a proper chance. lol lol  Whilst Vaughan has greatly improved, he's never outscored David Nugent and played all but 5 games at a higher level. Progress.

 

12 games is now the benchmark for people to prove themselves then!

 

Carry on trying to make a name for yourself with these ridiculous posts.

[cityfanlee23]

I actually think Wayne Rooney is arguable worse now than he was at 17, certainly 19/20.

Apparantly manwell, Only the record speaks for itsself, and age doesnt matter, thefore the fact rooney scored 15 in 2 seasons aged 16/17

 

Then around 20 in all competitions consistently between 18/23 "makes no odds"

[cityfanlee23]

They obviously thought he was good enough at 16 to play for a Prem team.... That's all I'm trying to say. Do you think people said "Go easy on James, he's only a kid" No. My argument is compare their records for the prem, simple as that. Nugent has flopped at premiership level after scoring more goals than Vaughan, whilst spending less time in the prem but only playing 12 more games, but Vaughan hasn't had a proper chance. lol lol

 

12 games is now the benchmark for people to prove themselves then!

 

Carry on trying to make a name for yourself with these ridiculous posts.

 

 

I agree that wouldnt of said that.....

 

But you keep banging on about premiership records...

 

Nugents is superior... AGREED.

 

But if you think the fact When they made their premiership debuts, Nugent was 23 years old, and vaughan was 16 makes no difference? you must be mad...

 

Are you telling me nugents previous 6 years in league football experience does not give him an edge on a 16 year old making his debut season?

 

That's why its pointless talking about past records...

When rooney made his debut van nistelrooy was on fire, you wouldnt compare rooneys record at 16 to vanistelrooys at 27?

So why do the same for nugent?

 

 

We could also once again state that vaughans record is trying to get into a team that were top 4 in the country at 16, inexperienced at 16 at any premier ship team! let alone one going for europe.

 

Vaughan has more potential than nugent has ever had, My opinion.

[cityfanlee23]

Long story short, 

 

Nugent in my opinion is easily replaced, and does not earn his wages.

 

There are plenty of players who we could potentially sign, and if we are in the premiership come may, we would need to replace, His contract runs out in the summer, so it does not bother me,

 

If nugent can send us into the premiership by suddenly hitting form, I'll back him. and hope he gets a new contract (1 year, 2 at a push)

 

But he's seemed  lethargic  for a long time now so i see it counter productive to give him a new one at this stage.

[Bert]

It's no good having potential if you can't build on it. I probably agree that Vaughan has always had more potential, but Vaughan has never played for England, he's never started being really consistent until these past 2/3 seasons, Nugent has been fairly consistent throughout his career bar 2 seasons.

 

Rooney got in the same Everton team at the same age (a team that were top 4 in the country at 16, inexperienced at 16 at any premier ship team! let alone one going for europe. - your words not mine.) so what's the difference there?

[cityfanlee23]

It's no good having potential if you can't build on it. I probably agree that Vaughan has always had more potential, but Vaughan has never played for England, he's never started being really consistent until these past 2/3 seasons, Nugent has been fairly consistent throughout his career bar 2 seasons.

 

Rooney got in the same Everton team at the same age (a team that were top 4 in the country at 16, inexperienced at 16 at any premier ship team! let alone one going for europe. - your words not mine.) so what's the difference there?

 

 

Yes and I agree nugent has been more consistent, albeit at worse teams, and less injuries,

 

With regard to rooney, the difference is rooney is world class vaughan is not, but when he was 16 he was not at the standard van nistelrooy was, 

 

Just like vaughan at 16 was not at the standard nugent was at 23 experience wise. Therefore it is pointless comparing the stats!

You do not sign players based on goalscoring records alone, you need to sign a player that fits the bill, Me personally I think vaughan could do us a job.

 

Maybe pearson disagrees, Time will tell

[svensson]

Yes and I agree nugent has been more consistent, albeit at worse teams, and less injuries,

With regard to rooney, the difference is rooney is world class vaughan is not, but when he was 16 he was not at the standard van nistelrooy was,

Just like vaughan at 16 was not at the standard nugent was at 23 experience wise. Therefore it is pointless comparing the stats!

You do not sign players based on goalscoring records alone, you need to sign a player that fits the bill, Me personally I think vaughan could do us a job.

Maybe pearson disagrees, Time will tell

Rubbish, Rooney has never been World Class... And yes you do sign a striker for goalscoring records, kevin phillips all round play is average, he scored for fun though.

[Bert]

The sole reason United signed RVN was to score goals, and that's all he did.

[cityfanlee23]

Rubbish, Rooney has never been World Class... And yes you do sign a striker for goalscoring records, kevin phillips all round play is average, he scored for fun though.

 

Rooney is world class.

Well he was 4-5 years ago,

 

Rooney's record was not outstanding at 16.. he scored 8 in his debut season, So united signed him for his amazing record?

No they signed him for potential.

He ended his debut season with 8 goals in 37 appearances in all competitions for the Toffees.^[48]

 

^{So some goalscoring record there then...}

^{25.6m deal for a player who scored 8 goals in 37 apps,} 

^{Yeah they must have been blown away by those figures.}

 

Such an idiotic quote from you there it's laughable.

 

 

Thierry henry signed for his goalscoring record? No.. his potential. 

 

If you sign players on their goalscoring record, any player who scores 10+ in the premier league would cost you 7m minumum.

 

 

 

 

If strikers were signed based solely on their premiership goalscoring record, NO PLAYER WOULD BE SIGNED FROM THE CHAMPIONSHIP?

And nobody would be signed until their team got promoted so they could prove they had POTENTIAL to be good enough?

 

Unreal comments from yourself on so many levels I must say.

[svensson]

Rooney is world class.

Well he was 4-5 years ago,

Rooney's record was not outstanding at 16.. he scored 7 in his debut season, So united signed him for his amazing record?

No they signed him for potential.

Such an idiotic quote from you there it's laughable.

Thierry henry signed for his goalscoring record? No.. his potential.

If you sign players on their goalscoring record, any player who scores 10+ in the premier league would cost you 7m minumum.

It clear now you really are cluless, Rooney world class, truely laughable. Very good but not world class. So take apart my comment on phillips? Don't add henry into the equation, as bert said twisiting it to suit your arguement.

[cityfanlee23]

It clear now you really are cluless, Rooney world class, truely laughable. Very good but not world class. So take apart my comment on phillips? Don't add henry into the equation, as bert said twisiting it to suit your arguement.

No... Not twisted at all?!?!

 

You claimed that players are signed on goalscoring records...

 

Rooney and henry are two perfect examples that completely floor your statement. They were signed for potential,

 

Just like every young player snapped up by premiership clubs, Was walcott signed on his pure premiership quality? No.

All signed for potential, not previous records.

 

Messi? Played for a club nobody had ever heard of, Did he go to barcelona because of his record? No. there were no records, He was signed purely on potential. Had he scored 73 goals in 1 season prior to his signing? No he showed potential.

 

Yaya sanogo at arsenal? Has been signed on potential.

 

Ramsey?

 

I can write a list if you like.

Do not try to tell me you only sign players based on records.

It's certainly not nigel pearsons way of signings. Vaughan has more potential than nugent. The goalscoring records between the 2 are farcifal, Playing at the same level, 1 with 6 years more experience under his belt.

[Bert]

Henry was a left winger when he signed for Arsenal....

[cityfanlee23]

Henry was a left winger when he signed for Arsenal....

 

And he was signed to play as a striker? Therefore he was signed purely on his potential, not on his record. because his record was poor.

 

Try not to kiss svens arse too much by agreeing with everything he types just for the sake of disgreeing with me,

especially when the result ends in a comment by yourself with no relevance.

 

I'm talking about potential, Vaughan has it, Nugent does not.

[Bert]

I'm not kissing anyones arse, there's no need to get mardy Lee, if you can't take people not agreeing with what you claim, go somewhere else. He was signed as a left winger and started out playing left wing for Arsenal. Vaughan is 3 years younger than Nugent, so of course he's going to have more potential at the minute. Nugent hasn't done too bad with his non-existent potential though, he's never been out scored by the kid with the most potential in the world. Potential counts for nothing unless they can show something for it, fact. Just look at all the players that come through the ranks and drop off, they all have massive potential but fail to show it when it matters.

 

Was Van Nistelrooy signed on potential? NO. Did Real Madrid sign Michael Owen on potential? NO. Have people signed Kev Phillips on potential? NO. Was Robbie Fowler signed by Leeds on potential? NO.

 

The list could go on, but believe it or not some players are signed for the fact they've been there, done it and all they do is score goals.

[cityfanlee23]

I'm not kissing anyones arse, there's no need to get mardy Lee, if you can't take people not agreeing with what you claim, go somewhere else. He was signed as a left winger and started out playing left wing for Arsenal. Vaughan is 3 years younger than Nugent, so of course he's going to have more potential at the minute. Nugent hasn't done too bad with his non-existent potential though, he's never been out scored by the kid with the most potential in the world. Potential counts for nothing unless they can show something for it, fact. Just look at all the players that come through the ranks and drop off, they all have massive potential but fail to show it when it matters.

 

Was Van Nistelrooy signed on potential? NO. Did Real Madrid sign Michael Owen on potential? NO. Have people signed Kev Phillips on potential? NO. Was Robbie Fowler signed by Leeds on potential? NO.

 

The list could go on, but believe it or not some players are signed for the fact they've been there, done it and all they do is score goals.

 

 

I did not state they were? 

 

That was your good friend Sven that dismissed my claim that vaughan has potential and nugent does not by saying "And yes you do sign a striker for goalscoring records"

Which is completely wrong.

 

They are signed based on potential AND records.

Or either, We need the potential, not the record. We apparantely have the records in nugent, but as we know can not cut it in the prem,

 

Vaughan has the ability at this level AND the added benefit of having a lot of potential, Which Is why I posted it in the first place, but once again I have you and sven searching for my posts to try and down them, unfortunately for you, between you both you have simply made my points stronger. Thanks again.

 

 

Bored of talking to you both now, So on this subject you can talk to yourselves between you, I have a lot to get on with, have a good one both.

[Bert]

[_Fatboyslow_]

If we can find a better striker than Nugent and afford him then lete sign him up. Simple. We don't need potential WE NEED FOCKIMG GOALS

I feel better :-)

[Johnny Cash]

Just to put a bit perspective Alan shearer scored 46 league penalties for Newcastle.

Matt Le Tissier 48 for Southampton.

Do you think there is a single Southampton or Newcastle fan who says they weren't that good because they scored penalties?

How different would there scoring records by with out penalties?

Shearer for Newcastle would be 103 in 303 games 1 in 3.

Le Tissier 110 in 448 about 1 in 4.

Still good but they no longer look like prolific goal scorers. Now try and find a Newcastle/Southampton fan who gives a shit that 1/3 of all their goals were penalties.

Yep, they also scored goals from open play unlike our superstar.

[muzzy1981]

Not suprising really, unfortunatly I feel Nige has created the slight 'us and them' feel around the club with his previous outbursts about fans booing. If we hit poor form player and managerd wil get booed...fact, yes some fans maybe worse than others but your not going to change the culture of a club. Better off getting a thicker skin and concentrating on winning games. A wholesale club ban om twitter maybe a start if anything

[Manwell Pablo]

Yep, they also scored goals from open play unlike our superstar.

 

He's got a 1 in 3 record for the club..... and he's only been taking pens for 3 months.