Nugent - " Leicester Boo Boys"

[Kitchandro]

I'm not keen on Pearson asking him to play deep all the while. He needs to be in the box more often. Too many times this season Dyer or someone has got in behind only for Nugent to be outside the box.

 

I understand the tactical reasons for him being deeper, and it probably does work in some ways, but at the end of the day a striker is a striker, he should be in the box in those kind of situations. Capitalising on such good chances is so important.

[Dan]

I wouldn't move him further up. It's working where he is and it isn't because he lacks chances - it's missing chances that I'm a bit concerned about.

[indierich06]

It would matter if he scored 20 including 12 penalties when last season he scored 15 and someone else scored the penalties.

The whole point is that the penalties should come on top of the normal 15 but to be fair he's playing a deeper role this season which means he's unlikely to get the 15 from open play that he normally gets. Many on here seem to have missed the fact he's playing a different role this season but he does apopear to have missed more sitters this year.

Yes, but my whole point is that people expect a certain 'acceptable' return from Nugent of around 16 goals. If he reaches that total at the end of the season, then IMO it shouldn't matter how he does it.

We've certainly won more penalties this year and I for one am glad we've got someone who is confident and sticking them away. Perhaps if Nugent had taken on this responsibility last season, we'd be playing in the Premier League now?

[hackneyfox]

Yes, but my whole point is that people expect a certain 'acceptable' return from Nugent of around 16 goals. If he reaches that total at the end of the season, then IMO it shouldn't matter how he does it.

We've certainly won more penalties this year and I for one am glad we've got someone who is confident and sticking them away. Perhaps if Nugent had taken on this responsibility last season, we'd be playing in the Premier League now?

Being played deeper does excuse some of his shortage of goals from open play but it doesn't excuse the number of sitters per game that he's missing which I think is higher than last season.

 

As for it not mattering how he gets the goals, well if he'd scored 15 last season and say Gallagher and others got 10 penalties then there's atotal of 25 goals, if he gets 16 including 10 penalties then we're 9 short of last seasons total.

 

As you say just a shame that he wasn't taking responsibility last season but I'm more inclined to blame management for that, you'd think that nowadays all teams would have at least 5 players capable of confidently taking a penalty. Perhaps I'm expecting too much as even the national side are incapable of managing that.

[MPH]

You are totally missing the point,all people were saying is that beside his penalties his overall performances have been poor,when a player of his quality should be doing a lot more,that's not moaning ,just seeing it as it is.

All i want to see is Nuge getting back to the level of football that he is capable off.

I disagree that he has been poor. Just playing a slightly different role. He isn't the one in the 6 yard box anymore.

[Captain...]

Being played deeper does excuse some of his shortage of goals from open play but it doesn't excuse the number of sitters per game that he's missing which I think is higher than last season.

 

As for it not mattering how he gets the goals, well if he'd scored 15 last season and say Gallagher and others got 10 penalties then there's atotal of 25 goals, if he gets 16 including 10 penalties then we're 9 short of last seasons total.

 

As you say just a shame that he wasn't taking responsibility last season but I'm more inclined to blame management for that, you'd think that nowadays all teams would have at least 5 players capable of confidently taking a penalty. Perhaps I'm expecting too much as even the national side are incapable of managing that.

 

But all of that is irrelevant if we end up with enough points to get promoted, which comes from goals regardless of how they are scored.

 

If we Nugent scores a penalty drops back and protects the midfield and we win 1-0, that is much better than him getting a hat-trick from open play and we lose 4-3.

 

At the moment Nuge may have less goals from open play than at this point last season, but we have more points, and Nuge has been integral to that, playing in every league match (I think) scoring 9 league goals (1/3 of all our goals) getting 4 assists so contributing to half our league goals that have propelled us to joint top of the league, yes if he had scored more we would be top outright on GD, but hey ho, I'm not going to complain. All of this whilst being asked to drop deeper by Nige, and not playing at his very best.

 

Yes his performances have been up to his usual standard, but in terms of contribution to the team, I can't believe people are complaining.

[Gubbins]

I'm not sure I buy this deeper role thing to be honest. The whole reason this thread exists is because of the number of sitters he's missed. Not half chances but real honest to goodness sitters. This of course is the reason why people turned against Vardy last season, not because of his overall performances but his regular ability to shoot wide from inside the 6 yard box! Nugent has easily had far more chances than vardy this season and yet has a similar amount of goals from open play ('oooh penalties count too blah blah blah'). Surely if he really was playing a deeper role he wouldn't have had as many chances as he has. 

[Charl91]

But all of that is irrelevant if we end up with enough points to get promoted, which comes from goals regardless of how they are scored.

 

 

 

 

But what if we lose out because of him missing some of those sitters? It's easy to say "It doesn't matter" when we're in a winning position, but we need all the points we can get. For all we know, we could lose out by a couple of points.

[cityfanlee23]

But all of that is irrelevant if we end up with enough points to get promoted, which comes from goals regardless of how they are scored.

 

If we Nugent scores a penalty drops back and protects the midfield and we win 1-0, that is much better than him getting a hat-trick from open play and we lose 4-3.

 

At the moment Nuge may have less goals from open play than at this point last season, but we have more points, and Nuge has been integral to that, playing in every league match (I think) scoring 9 league goals (1/3 of all our goals) getting 4 assists so contributing to half our league goals that have propelled us to joint top of the league, yes if he had scored more we would be top outright on GD, but hey ho, I'm not going to complain. All of this whilst being asked to drop deeper by Nige, and not playing at his very best.

 

Yes his performances have been up to his usual standard, but in terms of contribution to the team, I can't believe people are complaining.

 

So if we miss out will you make excuses for nugent and say it didnt matter?

 

Because at the moment, We are not in the position we are due to david nugents amazing performances, his poor performances and countless amount of sitters and 1 vs 1's he's missed, is overshadowed by penalties and winning the game due to other players.

 

 

 

If danny drinkwater was playing how nugent is, he would be crucified. 

 

we all know nugent cannot do it at the top level, so if we are aiming for promotion, why are we so dedicated to him?

 

He's on a wage not befitting his ability, and once we get promoted, will need replacing.

 

With a new contract needed, and us joint top, He will hardly want a massive pay cut,

So should we be looking to replace him on a player who can be affective at this level, YET STILL HAVE POTENTIAL, to be effective in the premiership??

 

James vaughan would be my signing, a goalscorer... Although he was horse here!   give him a shot

 

Nugents premiership career is atrocious for a player who cost teams so much money in transfer and wages.

 

Good at this level, but with a bit of luck, we wont be at this level in 6 months

[Aus Fox]

So if we miss out will you make excuses for nugent and say it didnt matter?

Because at the moment, We are not in the position we are due to david nugents amazing performances, his poor performances and countless amount of sitters and 1 vs 1's he's missed, is overshadowed by penalties and winning the game due to other players.

If danny drinkwater was playing how nugent is, he would be crucified.

we all know nugent cannot do it at the top level, so if we are aiming for promotion, why are we so dedicated to him?

He's on a wage not befitting his ability, and once we get promoted, will need replacing.

With a new contract needed, and us joint top, He will hardly want a massive pay cut,

So should we be looking to replace him on a player who can be affective at this level, YET STILL HAVE POTENTIAL, to be effective in the premiership??

James vaughan would be my signing, a goalscorer... Although he was horse here! give him a shot

Nugents premiership career is atrocious for a player who cost teams so much money in transfer and wages.

Good at this level, but with a bit of luck, we wont be at this level in 6 months

So get rid of Nuge because he couldn't cut it at te top level and you want to bring in James Vaughan with his prolific premiership scoring record.

I wish you were our manager!

[cityfanlee23]

So get rid of Nuge because he couldn't cut it at te top level and you want to bring in James Vaughan with his prolific premiership scoring record.

I wish you were our manager!

 

 

Potential.

 

He's better than nugent IMO...

 

Vaughan has never had a good chance to show himself in the premiership,

Nugent has, he failed.

 

 

3 years younger and looks more of a natural goalscorer IMO..

 

But I could name about 10 strikers to replace nugent with, I just like vaughan

 

 

 

P.s Its a fvcking good job you are not our manager, 

 

Are you telling me you don't buy players to fit a team? you buy players with outstanding records?

 

So you support sven then? not nigel?

 

Nigel buys "The right player" not the one with the best record at that level, Vaughan has shown he's a better striker than nugent at this level, and still has potential to improve

[Manwell Pablo]

So if we miss out will you make excuses for nugent and say it didnt matter?

 

Because at the moment, We are not in the position we are due to david nugents amazing performances, his poor performances and countless amount of sitters and 1 vs 1's he's missed, is overshadowed by penalties and winning the game due to other players.

 

 

 

If danny drinkwater was playing how nugent is, he would be crucified. 

 

we all know nugent cannot do it at the top level, so if we are aiming for promotion, why are we so dedicated to him?

 

He's on a wage not befitting his ability, and once we get promoted, will need replacing.

 

With a new contract needed, and us joint top, He will hardly want a massive pay cut,

So should we be looking to replace him on a player who can be affective at this level, YET STILL HAVE POTENTIAL, to be effective in the premiership??

 

James vaughan would be my signing, a goalscorer... Although he was horse here!   give him a shot

 

Nugents premiership career is atrocious for a player who cost teams so much money in transfer and wages.

 

Good at this level, but with a bit of luck, we wont be at this level in 6 months

 

A Goalscorer? He got a few at the start of this season.....that aside James Vaughan is yet to manage 15 a season, at any level. 

[Oasisedup]

So if we miss out will you make excuses for nugent and say it didnt matter?

 

Because at the moment, We are not in the position we are due to david nugents amazing performances, his poor performances and countless amount of sitters and 1 vs 1's he's missed, is overshadowed by penalties and winning the game due to other players.

 

 

 

If danny drinkwater was playing how nugent is, he would be crucified. 

 

we all know nugent cannot do it at the top level, so if we are aiming for promotion, why are we so dedicated to him?

 

He's on a wage not befitting his ability, and once we get promoted, will need replacing.

 

With a new contract needed, and us joint top, He will hardly want a massive pay cut,

So should we be looking to replace him on a player who can be affective at this level, YET STILL HAVE POTENTIAL, to be effective in the premiership??

 

James vaughan would be my signing, a goalscorer... Although he was horse here!   give him a shot

 

Nugents premiership career is atrocious for a player who cost teams so much money in transfer and wages.

 

Good at this level, but with a bit of luck, we wont be at this level in 6 months

 

You're trolling surely?

 

Are you seriously arguing that we should get rid of players who we deem "cannot do it at the top level" ..and we should get rid of them now?

 

I only ask because....we aren't in the top level yet. We need to get out of the second tier and we are only 16 games into the season. Whatever you think of Nugent, he's a very, very good Championship player and at the moment he's bagging a goal every other game. You would seriously let him go in January?

 

You argue we should ditch Nugent because he's pony in the Premier League (the one part of your post that is bordering on accurate) and you're alternative is.....James Vaughan.

 

A quick reminder of James Vaughan's Premier League career:

 

"On 27 May 2011, Vaughan signed for newly promoted Premier League club Norwich City on a three-year contract for an undisclosed fee.Vaughan made his debut for the club against West Bromwich Albion on 11 September, going on to make a total of five league appearances in an injury hit first season" [EMPHASIS ADDED]

 

In those five games he scored 0 goals.

 

In "Lehman terms" James Vaughan - that's one of the funniest things I've read on FT.

[billyn88]

Agree with the above. 

 

I remember a comment from Claridge on the FLS just after the raft of Sven signings (I'm aware this is another debate that has been rehashed over and over again so I won't go into that). 

 

He said 'Well they've signed good Championship players, but not much Premier League experience in there'.

 

What Claridge seemed to be missing was that we were in the Championship.  Let's get to the Premier League first.

 

There's so much uncertainty about the end of the season - what division will we be in, who will sign new deals, financial fair play.

Massive footballing cliche but I'm really not thinking beyond the next game as future strategy will be dictated by our final result this season.  

 

It's only November people!  

[Aus Fox]

Just to put a bit perspective Alan shearer scored 46 league penalties for Newcastle.

Matt Le Tissier 48 for Southampton.

Do you think there is a single Southampton or Newcastle fan who says they weren't that good because they scored penalties?

How different would there scoring records by with out penalties?

Shearer for Newcastle would be 103 in 303 games 1 in 3.

Le Tissier 110 in 448 about 1 in 4.

Still good but they no longer look like prolific goal scorers. Now try and find a Newcastle/Southampton fan who gives a shit that 1/3 of all their goals were penalties.

[cityfanlee23]

You're trolling surely?

 

Are you seriously arguing that we should get rid of players who we deem "cannot do it at the top level" ..and we should get rid of them now?

 

I only ask because....we aren't in the top level yet. We need to get out of the second tier and we are only 16 games into the season. Whatever you think of Nugent, he's a very, very good Championship player and at the moment he's bagging a goal every other game. You would seriously let him go in January?

 

You argue we should ditch Nugent because he's pony in the Premier League (the one part of your post that is bordering on accurate) and you're alternative is.....James Vaughan.

 

A quick reminder of James Vaughan's Premier League career:

 

"On 27 May 2011, Vaughan signed for newly promoted Premier League club Norwich City on a three-year contract for an undisclosed fee.Vaughan made his debut for the club against West Bromwich Albion on 11 September, going on to make a total of five league appearances in an injury hit first season" [EMPHASIS ADDED]

 

In those five games he scored 0 goals.

 

In "Lehman terms" James Vaughan - that's one of the funniest things I've read on FT.

Clearly that is you...

 

 

With regard to his premiership career, 5 games which were blighted with injury and lack of fitness, so you have written him off entirely, Fantastic judge you are   on those terms you would of written off nugent a long time ago.

 

And with your second statement that we should get rid of him in january... 

 

If you actually read the posts previous, it was in reply to people talking about his contract running out..

 

So what you are saying is with us aiming (And on course) for promotion, we should give nugent a fresh deal (Which would be normally around 3 years) to the age of 31,

Signing a player who is a proven flop in the premier league for 3 years is good business??

 

When we could sign a player who is PROVEN at this level, but with POTENTIAL at premiership level?

James vaughan played 5 games and you deemed him unfit for that level?

 

Nugent has scored how many from open play? and look at his run at the end of last season (as well as everyone else but we are talking about nugent)

Did you stick by him? Yes you did.

 

But you lost faith in vaughan after 5 games   Sounds like a nugent happy clapper to me.

 

 

 

His contract runs out in the summer, Get rid of him then.

[Aus Fox]

Potential.

He's better than nugent IMO...

Vaughan has never had a good chance to show himself in the premiership,

Nugent has, he failed.

3 years younger and looks more of a natural goalscorer IMO..

But I could name about 10 strikers to replace nugent with, I just like vaughan

P.s Its a fvcking good job you are not our manager,

Are you telling me you don't buy players to fit a team? you buy players with outstanding records?

So you support sven then? not nigel?

Nigel buys "The right player" not the one with the best record at that level, Vaughan has shown he's a better striker than nugent at this level, and still has potential to improve

How has Vaughan showed he's a better striker at this level?

I think you'd struggle to find 10 strikers with a better record at championship level consistently.

Lots of players have one good or bad season that doesn't reflect their whole career.

Nugent a Premier league record isn't great but he was treated like shit by Redknapp who tried to wheel and deal to sell him for a profit only weeks after signing him, his record for Burnley was that bad in a very poor premier league team.

Without looking at the stats that year I think he scored more goals than Vaughan scored in his 7/8 years at Everton.

[cityfanlee23]

How has Vaughan showed he's a better striker at this level?

I think you'd struggle to find 10 strikers with a better record at championship level consistently.

Lots of players have one good or bad season that doesn't reflect their whole career.

Nugent a Premier league record isn't great but he was treated like shit by Redknapp who tried to wheel and deal to sell him for a profit only weeks after signing him, his record for Burnley was that bad in a very poor premier league team.

Without looking at the stats that year I think he scored more goals than Vaughan scored in his 7/8 years at Everton.

 

Agree to some points.. he was not dealt with well by harry, 

 

Professionalism is the key, he doesnt seem professional if thats the case,

Backed up by his little dig at fans, 

 

 

Let me quote yourself "Without looking at the stats that year I think he scored more goals than Vaughan scored in his 7/8 years at Everton."

 

 

Nugent had a better record between 18-22 

But nugent was at preston north end..

 

 

Vaughan was at Everton.

In 7/8 years vaughan was at everton, 4 of those years, between 2004-2008 he was 14-18 years old.. so if you want to count his record between 14-18 that's fine... 

 

If we count nugents record between 14-18 

He scored 7 goals in 3 seasons at Bury Town.

 

 

 

 

maybe 10 is ambitious, But do you only sign players who are proven? 

 

In that case I wouldnt sign vaughan as he is not proven,

But I would sign him like a shot for potential. He's shown his eye for goal at this level, and did not have a chance at premiership level.

 

Nugent shown form at this level, and shown he can't at premiership level, nugent should not be in the prime of his career (a couple of years he should decline), he's not showing any of it.

 

 

 

It's just my opinion by the way as you know, I think personally vaughan is a better player than nugent and shows alot more promise should we get promoted... I'd rather not talk about youth careers and early career, as vaughan was at everton in the premiership, and nugent was at bury/preston.

 

But if you think giving nugent another 2/3 year contract is good business, I disagree, even at this level he would most likely command a wage not befitting his ability,

We already know that we cannot afford to buy players due to FFP, why would we lock ourselves into that situation further if we don't go up.. giving him a similar contract means next season if we stay down we will still be completely restricted to who we can sign..

 

There are plenty of young talents with potential to play at the top level, and with the departures of top earners likely it may leave us room to move in the transfer market

[Bert]

Nugent has made 12 more appearances in the premier league than Vaughan. So now 12 games is the benchmark for showing what they're about? Vaughan's games came over 7 years where he scored 7 goals and then 5 more in 2012 where he scored 0. Nugents came over 4 years where he scored 9, with a lot of them being on the wing. To say Vaughan hasn't had a shot at the prem is laughable.

 

How can you not count Vaughan's appearance's because he was only 16?

 

If we miss out is it going to be Nugent's fault then? 

[cityfanlee23]

Nugent has made 12 more appearances in the premier league than Vaughan. So now 12 games is the benchmark for showing what they're about? Vaughan's games came over 7 years where he scored 7 goals and then 5 more in 2012 where he scored 0. Nugents came over 4 years where he scored 9, with a lot of them being on the wing.

 

How can you not count Vaughan's appearance's because he was only 16?

 

If we miss out is it going to be Nugent's fault then? 

 

I'm not discounting them, but when vaughan was playing in the premier league at 15/16 years old, nugent was at preston north end...

 

Vaughan was at everton, in those 4 years between the ages of 14-18, everton came 4th, 11th, 6th and 5th in the PREMIERSHIP.. making around 40 appearances.

 

 

I didnt say it would be nugents fault did I, Same old crap from you bert taking a mixture of points from a post and completely twisting it all 

If you had not noticed, this is a nugent thread. My reply was in response to somebody claiming that it doesnt matter if our strikers are inconsistently underperforming because as long as everyone else scores and we go up "It is irrelevant" 

 

It's completely relevant if he keeps missing sitters and we miss out, Nugent is consistent in wasting chances.

 

As another poster quite rightly stated It is easy to talk him up and say his terrible misses and generally poor all round performances are  Irrelevant  when we are in a winning position, Whilst we are in a winning position it's best to iron out the creases, because if by some stroke of unfortune those results stop coming, who do we rely on? certainly not david nugent.

[Bert]

Vaughan didn't play in the prem when he was 15 though.

I'm counting Vaughans record from when he made his first premiership start, simple as that. If anyone is twisting things, it's you so you can make your weak argument look stronger, again. Why are you including that he signed when he was 14, that's completely irrelevant and proves my point you're trying to make your argument look stronger. I've compared their premiership records, not when Nugent was at Preston and when Vaughan was Everton.

 

When you look at it, both records are equally poor. 1 averages 1 in just over 7 and the other is a bit closer to 1 in 7.5.

[Lambert09]

Surely the argument would be that Vaughan is better now then when he was 16, however when Nugent was in the prem he was arguably better then he is now.

[cityfanlee23]

Vaughan didn't play in the prem when he was 15 though.

I'm counting Vaughans record from when he made his first premiership start, simple as that. If anyone is twisting things, it's you so you can make your weak argument look stronger, again. Why are you including that he signed when he was 14, that's completely irrelevant and proves my point you're trying to make your argument look stronger. I've compared their premiership records, not when Nugent was at Preston and when Vaughan was Everton.

 

When you look at it, both records are equally poor. 1 averages 1 in just over 7 and the other is a bit closer to 1 in 7.5.

 

 

Correct, he was 16. made his debut in 2005 against palace.

 

Obviously a massive difference, so at the same time as james vaughan made his debut for everton in the season they came 4th in the "best division in the world" 

 

David nugent aged 19 had scored 11 goals in league 2, the same season that bury fc came 17th.

 

 

 

The fact he signed at 14 is not used by me to "Make my weak argument look stronger" 

It's a fact!! People using past records as guidance of ability,

 

Mentioning that nugent had a better goalscoring record than vaughan at his time at everton, VAUGHAN WAS 16 when he made his premier league debut, Nugent was 19, playing in a struggling bury side 3 DIVISIONS BELOW, and people are talking about records? To be honest I'd hope that at 19 year old david nugent scored more goals in league 2 than a 16 year old in the premiership?

 

or do you disagree?

James vaughan has had a torrid time with injuries and looks to be getting himself back to fitness, and is now showing his potential, David nugent showed his class is this level over the course of the past 5-7 years.

If vaughan was playing for everton in the premierleague at 16, do you think he would of done a job at a struggling league 2 side?

 

 

That was the reason i posted about his age, how can you compare 2 players, seperated by 3 years age, one being classed as an adult the other being a kid, seperated by 3 leagues? 1 team coming 4th in the most competitive league in the world, the other almost being relegated in a poor league..

[Ric Flair]

Just to put a bit perspective Alan shearer scored 46 league penalties for Newcastle.

Matt Le Tissier 48 for Southampton.

Do you think there is a single Southampton or Newcastle fan who says they weren't that good because they scored penalties?

How different would there scoring records by with out penalties?

Shearer for Newcastle would be 103 in 303 games 1 in 3.

Le Tissier 110 in 448 about 1 in 4.

Still good but they no longer look like prolific goal scorers. Now try and find a Newcastle/Southampton fan who gives a shit that 1/3 of all their goals were penalties.

 

I think you're taking things out of context a little here. Up until last weekend Nugent had scored 4-5 goals from open play in about 30 matches, it was a fairly worrying slump. The penalties of course count and are crucial goals to be scored but no team continues to be awarded as many penalties as we were getting, which has been proven as we've now not had one for several games. Therefore if Nugent continued his poor form from open play then it was going to put pressure on the rest of the team to score enough goals to maintain our form. However, Nugent bagged himself a brace last weekend and may well be producing the goods when he has to, i.e. right now when the obscene amount of penalties we were being awarded has dried up.

 

As long as he continues to average a goal every other game, whetehr it be from penalties, corners, free kicks or open play then we'll ease the burden on the rest of the team. That is what a valuable striker does for the team and on the whole, Nugent does that. He goes through rich veins of form and then sincere dry spells. I am hoping he's due a hatful as those 6 peno's have really put him in great shape to smash his PB for the season.

[Bert]

Correct, he was 16. made his debut in 2005 against palace.

Obviously a massive difference, so at the same time as james vaughan made his debut for everton in the season they came 4th in the "best division in the world"

David nugent aged 19 had scored 11 goals in league 2, the same season that bury fc came 17th.

The fact he signed at 14 is not used by me to "Make my weak argument look stronger"

It's a fact!! People using past records as guidance of ability,

Mentioning that nugent had a better goalscoring record than vaughan at his time at everton, VAUGHAN WAS 16 when he made his premier league debut, Nugent was 19, playing in a struggling bury side 3 DIVISIONS BELOW, and people are talking about records? To be honest I'd hope that at 19 years old david nugent scored more goals in league 2 than a 16 year old in the premiership?

That was the reason i posted about his age, how can you compare 2 players, seperated by 3 years age, one being classed as an adult the other being a kid, seperated by 3 leagues? 1 team coming 4th in the most competitive league in the world, the other almost being relegated in a poor league..

Dear me. Compare the premiership records! You'll see that I've done so, and that's the only fair way to do so. Are you really that deluded that you can't see this?

Regardless of Vaughans age he was playing men's football at the time just because he's 16 it makes no odds, so that's another crap point you've made.

He might have been signed at 14 but didn't play until he was 16. Liam Moore was signed to us when he was 8!