Vacamion Posted 22 January 2014 Posted 22 January 2014 Couldn't see any other threads about this. Whilst the BBC were mentioning the challenge to Sepp Blatter's leadership of FIFA the other day, as reported here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25811977 they threw in this gem: Champagne suggests players could be sin-binned for two or three minutes for "in-between fouls committed in the heat of the moment". How Jerome Champagne's proposal might look in the Premier League. Would a sin bin / orange card in football be workable? Is it a good idea? Do you think it will ever happen?
davieG Posted 22 January 2014 Posted 22 January 2014 http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/topic/91470-platini-in-sensible-football-suggestion-shocker/?hl=yellow Was quite hard to find though.
Haydos Posted 22 January 2014 Posted 22 January 2014 Couldn't see any other threads about this. Whilst the BBC were mentioning the challenge to Sepp Blatter's leadership of FIFA the other day, as reported here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25811977 they threw in this gem: Would a sin bin / orange card in football be workable? Is it a good idea? Do you think it will ever happen? It would require a complete readjustment of the disciplinary system though. I think 2nd yellows could often do with sin bins rather than sending offs. Often they're debatable or niggly and a sending off 'ruins the game' as such. 2 accidental trips in the final third can result in a sending off at the moment which seems a bit harsh. Does an orange card come after a yellow? Or is it just for slightly more severe punishment? Stuff it could be used for: 2nd yellows Dissent Diving Deliberate hand ball Awkward to make work though, especially with the subjectivity of punishment.
Vacamion Posted 22 January 2014 Author Posted 22 January 2014 It would require a complete readjustment of the disciplinary system though. I think 2nd yellows could often do with sin bins rather than sending offs. Often they're debatable or niggly and a sending off 'ruins the game' as such. 2 accidental trips in the final third can result in a sending off at the moment which seems a bit harsh. Does an orange card come after a yellow? Or is it just for slightly more severe punishment? Stuff it could be used for: 2nd yellows Dissent Diving Deliberate hand ball Awkward to make work though, especially with the subjectivity of punishment. Agreed. I can't see the point in being "in the bin" for just 2 or 3 minutes. 10 minutes, yes, I could see the point of that. Of course, they won't be able to implement this unless they move to a system of managing the clock (and being able to stop the clock) as used in other sports. Otherwise teams could run down the sin bin by kicking the ball out or feigning injury. Managing the clock might change the game out of all recognition. I think that some red cards spoil the game as it is currently officiated. How many times does an early red card end the prospect of a healthy competition? Reds should be kept as an ultimate sanction for stuff like violent conduct, legbreaker tackles or blatant cheating.
KFS Posted 22 January 2014 Posted 22 January 2014 It works in Hockey because of the sheer amount of breaks that they have. You could say that the sin-bin is the one of the major reasons as to why it's broken up so much. I think it would get quite hectic, but I can see where they're coming from. "Vincent Kompany has been sin-binned for a blatant hand ball" "Here come Liverpool now, goal!" Everyone turns on said player and he doesn't do it again because of the stigma attached to it.
Bert Posted 22 January 2014 Posted 22 January 2014 An orange card is daft. If they want a sin bin, keep it a yellow and then bin them for ten minutes. This will stop all forms of cheating and dissent. Personally wouldn't be adverse to something like that but only if it was to eradicate cheating etc. On the flip side, is a ten minute "sin bin" enough to warrant someone from chancing a dive in the hope of a gain?
kingfox Posted 22 January 2014 Posted 22 January 2014 Haydos makes good points, about the stuff it could be used for. Works in Rugby with a yellow, but Football doesn't need changing in this way.
indierich06 Posted 22 January 2014 Posted 22 January 2014 FFS, football has been absolutely fine for years without these nobheads tinkering with it. Just leave the game alone.
foxfanazer Posted 22 January 2014 Posted 22 January 2014 Seems like another attempt to 'Americanise' our game. I can see positives to it but for me it still leaves a lot to interpretation. I'd prefer us to focus on giving clear definitions of existing rules, offside being the best example. There is so many grey areas that need sorting out there. I can accept that goal line technology is necessary and they look like they've done a decent job with it but imo thats because there is a conclusive answer (Goal/no goal). Referees seem to struggle enough without adding another coloured card to the equation
RobHawk Posted 22 January 2014 Posted 22 January 2014 I think this could work, but it needs to be evolution not revolution. Works very well in other sports and actually may help the referee with dissent etc. I'm a qualified referee for lacrosse and if anyone talks back, makes a cheeky comment, swears at me - they are off for a minute no problem. Different sport obviously because being a man down for a minute in lacrosse is a much bigger deal than it would in football but the principle is the same. Just make it 5 or ten minutes and players will soon stop being billy big bollocks!
potter3 Posted 22 January 2014 Posted 22 January 2014 I always wondered whether enforcing a substitution could work. As opposed to a sin bin, the manager is forced to substitute them. Obviously if you have used your 3 subs you are down to 10 men.
Haydos Posted 22 January 2014 Posted 22 January 2014 Leave football alone. FFS, football has been absolutely fine for years without these nobheads tinkering with it. Just leave the game alone. Really? You don't want something to improve because it's been like this for ages? Why not take influence from a sport that handles laws, refereeing and discipline a million times better than football? Refereeing? Better. Respect? Better. Authority? Better. Retrospective discipline? Better. Effective bans? Better.
MC Prussian Posted 22 January 2014 Posted 22 January 2014 I think FIFA should put more emphasis on resolving the Qatar issue than plaguing football fans with ridiculous new card system propositions. Besides, I can't see being suspended during a game for two, three minutes working in football. Hockey, yes - because their thirds are shorter than football halves, a regular game lasts "only" 45 minutes and the speed of the game in general is much faster. All in all, players are well aware that actions like taking off your shirt warrant a yellow, no matter how soft it may appear. One could take this to ridiculous lengths and also propose even more cards, for different violations/unsportmanship behaviors…
Uncle Albert Posted 22 January 2014 Posted 22 January 2014 I think FIFA should put more emphasis on resolving the Qatar issue than plaguing football fans with ridiculous new card system propositions. We do agree on something.
foxfanazer Posted 22 January 2014 Posted 22 January 2014 3 mins? Fvck that, would need to be 10.Yeah they'd be nothing less entertaining than watching a team repeatedly kicking the ball out for a throw in because they're a man short
MC Prussian Posted 22 January 2014 Posted 22 January 2014 Yeah they'd be nothing less entertaining than watching a team repeatedly kicking the ball out for a throw in because they're a man short Or passing it around the back for prolonged periods.
Kitchandro Posted 22 January 2014 Posted 22 January 2014 Firstly, there is enough confusion for colour blind people with the kit clashes. The card in that picture looks very red to me. I don't see what's wrong with the system we have now or how a sin bin would help matters. There is too much discussion about the fine line between a yellow and red card as it is. Throw another card in there and there would be even more controversy. It would be an easy cop out for referees who don't have the balls to send a player off. It would become reminiscent of the offside issue IMO, now they've removed the 'daylight' rule. It would be something that actually made it more difficult to come to the correct decisions because the line is so thin between different offences. What specific offences would an orange card/sin bin be dished out for anyway? I have a feeling they'd start sin binning goalkeepers for bring down a man with an otherwise empty net to put the ball in, just to appease those who rather naively think it's too harsh to send them off.
Kitchandro Posted 22 January 2014 Posted 22 January 2014 It would require a complete readjustment of the disciplinary system though. I think 2nd yellows could often do with sin bins rather than sending offs. Often they're debatable or niggly and a sending off 'ruins the game' as such. 2 accidental trips in the final third can result in a sending off at the moment which seems a bit harsh. Does an orange card come after a yellow? Or is it just for slightly more severe punishment? Stuff it could be used for: 2nd yellows Dissent Diving Deliberate hand ball Awkward to make work though, especially with the subjectivity of punishment. Can see where you're coming from with some of those points. It does seem a bit harsh that players can go for 2 accidental trips, but at the same time I don't think it's fair that an advancing man can be brought down without any proper punishment to the offender. Like I say, my biggest problem with it is how tight so many calls are. Too many options for the referee could make things more difficult, and I'm sure for the amount of reductions in unfair sending offs, there'd be just as many reductions in fair sending offs, as the referee may give them the benefit of the doubt, or in other words, bottle it, as an orange card could give them less grief.
RobHawk Posted 22 January 2014 Posted 22 January 2014 Firstly, there is enough confusion for colour blind people with the kit clashes. The card in that picture looks very red to me. I don't see what's wrong with the system we have now or how a sin bin would help matters. There is too much discussion about the fine line between a yellow and red card as it is. Throw another card in there and there would be even more controversy. It would be an easy cop out for referees who don't have the balls to send a player off. It would become reminiscent of the offside issue IMO, now they've removed the 'daylight' rule. It would be something that actually made it more difficult to come to the correct decisions because the line is so thin between different offences. What specific offences would an orange card/sin bin be dished out for anyway? I have a feeling they'd start sin binning goalkeepers for bring down a man with an otherwise empty net to put the ball in, just to appease those who rather naively think it's too harsh to send them off. For me it would make red cards much less likely! I like the idea of a referee seeing something and the player being penalised there and then. Even with yellow cards, how often do you see players getting booked and thinking, that was never a booking. They get 5 and then get a ban but 2 or 3 of them could have been really harsh. This would be more instant and should take the pressure off referees so they can keep the reds for the very serious tackles/incidents. The most interesting point for me would be that it would likely mean that referees would have to be more upfront for their decisions and explain why the player would be off for a period of time. It would also be interesting to see the rule implemented in youth football also. If it was done correctly it could work really well, That is where the problem lies though as they would probably **** it up just like everything else.
Richard Posted 22 January 2014 Posted 22 January 2014 Leave football alone. Soon we'll have the watch being stopped every time there's a throw in and an advert for Bet365's next goalscorer odds at every goal kick.
notnow john Posted 22 January 2014 Posted 22 January 2014 Two cards are more than enough.Refereeing is difficult enough without having to go through a Dulux colour chart before making a decision.
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