Manwell Pablo Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 yeah his medal count is sensational but how many times has he actually majorly contributed to a spain or madrid competition win? maybe i just don't watch him enough or appreciate goalkeeping enough but to me spain/madrid have won things with him in the team rather than him winning things for spain or madrid. he's a pretty good keeper but he's not up there as one of the greats imo, the only reason people say he is is because he's got so many caps and appearances, he's never done anything particularly special in any of them He's had his good and bad moments to be fair, Euro 2008 he had a couple of great games. It's simple with Casillas when he's on it he's up there when's not he's awful.
ScouseFox Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 He's had his good and bad moments to be fair, Euro 2008 he had a couple of great games. It's simple with Casillas when he's on it he's up there when's not he's awful. yeah maybe some of his horrible moments just stand out more in my memory. my point was imo spain would have won 08, 10 & 12 with any of valdes, reina, de gea, etc in goal, and madrid haven't even played him regularly for 18 months.
Carl the Llama Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 yeah his medal count is sensational but how many times has he actually majorly contributed to a spain or madrid competition win? maybe i just don't watch him enough or appreciate goalkeeping enough but to me spain/madrid have won things with him in the team rather than him winning things for spain or madrid. he's a pretty good keeper but he's not up there as one of the greats imo, the only reason people say he is is because he's got so many caps and appearances, he's never done anything particularly special in any of them Spot on. Medal haul can be somewhat misrepresentative for outfield players. For keepers it can be an outright lie. Schmeichel and Van der Saar never won any international medals but nobody's seriously going to say Casillas is on their level. He's very fvcking good but Madrid and Spain have done him major favours - he wouldn't have stood out anywhere near as much in critics eyes playing for Arsenal and England(UK media bias excepted), hence the Seaman comparison.
Manwell Pablo Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 yeah maybe some of his horrible moments just stand out more in my memory. my point was imo spain would have won 08, 10 & 12 with any of valdes, reina, de gea, etc in goal, and madrid haven't even played him regularly for 18 months. He's got dropped because he's proper lost form in recently and that and the lack of games showed this tournament.....odd they picked him over De Gea but then I think Del Bosque has been guilty of sticking with the old guard where changes were required (Casillias, Torres) and making the wrong changes (Costa, and changing their tactics to fit round him) Still I don't think he can be held to task for their elimation. The goals he conceded against the Dutch and Chileians were superficial. They got outplayed twice and scored one goal in two games.
ScouseFox Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 He's got dropped because he's proper lost form in recently and that and the lack of games showed this tournament.....odd they picked him over De Gea but then I think Del Bosque has been guilty of sticking with the old guard where changes were required (Casillias, Torres) and making the wrong changes (Costa, and changing their tactics to fit round him) Still I don't think he can be held to task for their elimation. The goals he conceded against the Dutch and Chileians were superficial. They got outplayed twice and scored one goal in two games. yeah i'd agree with that. i think he possibly saw that barca won nothing this season and possibly saw bayern try and tika taka but get taken to pieces by madrid and was possibly starting to doubt his philosophy. not sure though, but he either needed to change personal and system or stick with both imo, it seems perfectly clear that xavi, iniesta and the like can't be doing with a "big man" in front of them, no matter how good he is. just happy they lost really.
Tom17LCFC Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 yeah his medal count is sensational but how many times has he actually majorly contributed to a spain or madrid competition win? maybe i just don't watch him enough or appreciate goalkeeping enough but to me spain/madrid have won things with him in the team rather than him winning things for spain or madrid. he's a pretty good keeper but he's not up there as one of the greats imo, the only reason people say he is is because he's got so many caps and appearances, he's never done anything particularly special in any of them Regardless of whether you think he contributed or not, 5 La Ligas, 3 CL's, 2 Euros and 1 World Cup is some going. You don't win competitions like that regularly without contributing. In my eyes he will go down as one of the greats, even if he has appeared to have declined over the past year or so.
Carl the Llama Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 He will, and his medal haul means people will inevitably be putting him alongside Banks and Yashin which is just wrong. Goalkeeper is the worst understood position amongst those who don't play there.
Manwell Pablo Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 He will, and his medal haul means people will inevitably be putting him alongside Banks and Yashin which is just wrong. Goalkeeper is the worst understood position amongst those who don't play there. Let's be fair he's played very well in winning some of those medals. Three years ago this conversation would of been ridiculed. EDIT: And also I don't think anyone would put him up there with Banks or Yashin, if it was about winners medals Banks wouldn't even by on the radar when rating a GK
Grandad. Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 Wouldn't be surprised if we see a few Spanish retirements after tonight. Xavi - 34 years old Xabi Alonso - 32 years old (maybe) Iker Casillas - 33 years old Pepe Reina - 31 years old - I know he never plays but will probably retire as well. Iniesta is 30 so expect him to be at Euro 2016. Can't see the players above being around then, maybe Alonso but I doubt that very much. Spain need to breed the young ones through now, start again as such.. Isco, Koke and Thiaho Alcantara need to be given the starts now along with Fabrgas (27), Busquets (25) and David Silva (28).
Manwell Pablo Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 Wouldn't be surprised if we see a few Spanish retirements after tonight. Xavi - 34 years old Xabi Alonso - 32 years old (maybe) Iker Casillas - 33 years old Pepe Reina - 31 years old - I know he never plays but will probably retire as well. Iniesta is 30 so expect him to be at Euro 2016. Can't see the players above being around then, maybe Alonso but I doubt that very much. Spain need to breed the young ones through now, start again as such.. Isco, Koke and Thiaho Alcantara need to be given the starts now along with Fabrgas (27), Busquets (25) and David Silva (28). Neither keeper will retire, unless Casillas does so out of shame, keepers can get to 38 and still be as good as they ever were, Reina certianly wont go at 31.
Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 Casillas has seemed to lose his form over the last 2 years, which for a top goalkeeper at 31-33 seems strange. De Gea is clearly the future. Do agree having played the position for 20+ years non goalkeepers seem to have a very skewed outlook on their analysis of the position over all. But that won't stop me judging all strikers on a 4 minute Youtube clip and a 4 minute Youtube clip alone.
Grandad. Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 Neither keeper will retire, unless Casillas does so out of shame, keepers can get to 38 and still be as good as they ever were, Reina certianly wont go at 31. This is where though Spain should persist with De Gea now, Casillas has had his time and been a fantastic keeper and leader for his country and Reina probably won't you're right but if I was him, 31, got all the medals in International football, why travel around Europe to sit on a bench when you're not going to be first choice keeper? Make sense to retire now.
Manwell Pablo Posted 18 June 2014 Posted 18 June 2014 This is where though Spain should persist with De Gea now, Casillas has had his time and been a fantastic keeper and leader for his country and Reina probably won't you're right but if I was him, 31, got all the medals in International football, why travel around Europe to sit on a bench when you're not going to be first choice keeper? Make sense to retire now. I agree. I don't think either will retire though. Not even sure Spain will start De Gea straight away, depends if Del Bosque keeps his job.
Leicesterpool Posted 19 June 2014 Posted 19 June 2014 I can imagine now they'll be a complete new look to the Spain team come Euro 2016. As some as mentioned a few will retire after the world cup. I don't dislike the Spanish but I never liked their style of play, so I'm glad there out early on.
Carl the Llama Posted 19 June 2014 Posted 19 June 2014 Let's be fair he's played very well in winning some of those medals. Three years ago this conversation would of been ridiculed. EDIT: And also I don't think anyone would put him up there with Banks or Yashin, if it was about winners medals Banks wouldn't even by on the radar when rating a GK Ha, fair point.I've not once said Casillas isn't great, unless you're misinterpreting my Seaman comments in which case let me assure you I idolised old Ponytail. The point I'm trying to make is: While always inarguably amongst the world's elite, there's never been a period of time (imo) where you would pick Iker as the best out there full stop, like was the case with David. The same can't be said for the 3 recent players I keep mentioning: Buffon, Schmeichel, and Vandy. Which is why if we were having this conversation 3 years ago I'd still have pointed at Buffon and told Iker to sit down. The fact that he's dropped off sharply of late when Buffon has kept going not too far below peak only serves to convince me more that he doesn't quite deserve Legend status, perhaps a cult hero.
Fox92 Posted 19 June 2014 Posted 19 June 2014 They seemed to change their style to try to adapt Costa. I don't rate him having seen those performances.
MC Prussian Posted 19 June 2014 Posted 19 June 2014 Did anybody mention the troubles before the game already? Around one hundred Chilean fans without a ticket tried to sneak into the Maracanã. A small group feigned an accident to distract security personnel, then the rest stormed the media entrance of the stadium, smashing equipment, breaking stuff and causing general havoc: https://vine.co/v/MTzKr6lqzvH Albeit a small group managed to get to the pitchside, roughly 80 people were arrested after some 15 minutes and the Chileans now have 72 hours to leave the country.
cambridgefox Posted 19 June 2014 Posted 19 June 2014 Did anybody mention the troubles before the game already? Around one hundred Chilean fans without a ticket tried to sneak into the Maracanã. A small group feigned an accident to distract security personnel, then the rest stormed the media entrance of the stadium, smashing equipment, breaking stuff and causing general havoc: https://vine.co/v/MTzKr6lqzvH Albeit a small group managed to get to the pitchside, roughly 80 people were arrested after some 15 minutes and the Chileans now have 72 hours to leave the country. I saw it on TV ,if these were English fans I'm sure the worldwide media would have been all over this.Deserve punishment though.
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